I know that basketball is about much more than scoring, but can you have someone getting starters minutes that is averaging 3 points, 4 assists and 4 rebounds per game? If someone isn't a threat to score how much of an impact does that have on your primary scoring threat inside? I ask because I see posts that say CMac has to be in there to feed Garza but if the man guarding CMac feels free to leave him and drop down on Garza and Cmac can't make the opponent pay, is it really an advantage anymore?
CMac
- Thread starter jonesy5960
- Start date
He gets way too many minutes. I believe he makes contributions, but not at the level you would expect of a top-10 team's starter. I'm happy we have him on our team, but he shouldn't be starting and getting this many minutes.
Another day, another of these threads.
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Yes but you have to gameplan for it better. You can double all day on CM's side with Garza and it wont ever really hurt you. Need to make sure you are running the offense with a shooter opposite of the double or else you are screwing yourself. Much harder for bigs to find the open shooter with a skip pass in those situations.
People who don’t understand what CMac brings are the people who start these threads. He’s not going to be a scorer. He is comparable to Draymond Green. The glue guy with the tough mean attitude. CMac plays a role that seems small, but is so important to the team being able to win games.
He shoots less than 3 times per game so I am not really worried about his PPG.
If he takes care of the ball and can set up teammates for good looks then he is fine. Also, he needs to hit the wide open 3 if its there at a better clip than he has been.
My only complaint, and its not really all Connor's fault, is he always seems to have the ball when the shot clock is under 5 seconds. He should be the last person on the floor to be in that position.
If he takes care of the ball and can set up teammates for good looks then he is fine. Also, he needs to hit the wide open 3 if its there at a better clip than he has been.
My only complaint, and its not really all Connor's fault, is he always seems to have the ball when the shot clock is under 5 seconds. He should be the last person on the floor to be in that position.
no, he is not comparable to Draymond Green.
Connor is not remotely close to D Green.That’s a ridiculous statement. I like having Connor on the team but what the OP asks isn’t some crazy question.
Connor doesn't need to be a significant scoring threat,.. he needs to direct traffic and set up the assist while valuing the ball,.. We have an abundance of scoring threats..
I might agree if Garza were the only scoring threat, but with three others out there that can score I'm fine with the fifth guy having other outstanding attributes.
Connor brings important things to the floor besides scoring, however I agree that he should probably have fewer minutes overall. Keegan M. offers more at that is needed at the 4 in most situations. More minutes for Connor in a given game might make more sense situationally, such as the opponent going small ball. Overall, though, I'd like to see Keegan M. get more of the minutes at the 4.
He's a role player, should be coming off the bench and play 10-15 minutes tops. It's the harsh truth.
This team has plenty of offensive talent and I would argue it's easier to feed Garza when Conner's man isn't sagging off and clogging up passing lanes anyway, I feel the point that he is needed to feed Garza is way overstated.
Where this is really evident is our starting unit defense. We already have deficiencies in Garza and Jbo's lateral speed. Now you add an undersized 4? I would rather have Joe T getting in the opposing players grills or Keegan/Pmac's length, shot blocks and rebounding.
There was a point last year Conner had a nice mid-game developing, that seems to be have all but disappeared. Until he can start punishing the double with cuts and drives into the lane his minutes need to be reduced.
This team has plenty of offensive talent and I would argue it's easier to feed Garza when Conner's man isn't sagging off and clogging up passing lanes anyway, I feel the point that he is needed to feed Garza is way overstated.
Where this is really evident is our starting unit defense. We already have deficiencies in Garza and Jbo's lateral speed. Now you add an undersized 4? I would rather have Joe T getting in the opposing players grills or Keegan/Pmac's length, shot blocks and rebounding.
There was a point last year Conner had a nice mid-game developing, that seems to be have all but disappeared. Until he can start punishing the double with cuts and drives into the lane his minutes need to be reduced.
If JBO is hitting I’m not sure how any stops a lineup of JBO JOE W CJ and Murray backside.. incredible kick out options, a slasher in Joe W and a ball hawk on the glass in Murray.
I think Connor would find success driving to the hoop and going up with it more. And also not fading away on every jump shot he takes. His role as a versatile defender and facilitator is an important one though. Especially alongside guys like Garza, Fredrick, Wieskamp, and Bohannon, who all demand a substantial amount of shot attempts
I am very happy CMac is part of the team. Last year, when we lost our starting PG (Bohannon) for the season, and had to rely on a rookie PG (Toussaint), it was extraordinarily valuable to have a player like CMac, who could provide leadership, ball-handling, and passing skills.
That said, this year, the context is different. Bohannon is back. Toussaint is a year older. I wonder if we still have the same need for a glue-guy like CMac in the starting lineup. As Keegan continues to show sparks, this question is growing louder in my mind.
Either way, CMac is a great addition to the rotation, regardless of his specific role. I love his toughness, leadership, and ability to feed the post. I look forward to seeing him continue to help the team.
That said, this year, the context is different. Bohannon is back. Toussaint is a year older. I wonder if we still have the same need for a glue-guy like CMac in the starting lineup. As Keegan continues to show sparks, this question is growing louder in my mind.
Either way, CMac is a great addition to the rotation, regardless of his specific role. I love his toughness, leadership, and ability to feed the post. I look forward to seeing him continue to help the team.
One advantage to having Connor on the floor is, he is an outlet in offensive sets. Since his defender won't follow him out to the 3 point line, he helps to relieve pressure when others get guarded closely. Just watch JBo give Connor the ball to bring the ball up when JBo is being pressured or when he initiates the offense and is being hounded. He will find Connor who is usually open and he can start the play.
I don't think Connor will ever be a huge scorer/option. He did have a run last year where he was reliable from outside for a bit. However, you saw vs NW that he usually is chucking a three late in the shot clock (again, because he is open). As others have said, he provides other qualities ... Iowa has plenty of scoring punch.
I don't think Connor will ever be a huge scorer/option. He did have a run last year where he was reliable from outside for a bit. However, you saw vs NW that he usually is chucking a three late in the shot clock (again, because he is open). As others have said, he provides other qualities ... Iowa has plenty of scoring punch.
He really needs to not settle for 3's and drive the basketball when they double off of him. He gets an assist almost every time he does it. Would like to see Keegan take more of his 4 minutes but would like to see Cmac backup Toussaint at PG. Play Bohannon when the match up is right or he's playing well. Jbo and Garza should not play together in my opinion.
I do get frustrated sometimes with the combos, but there’s no doubt that CMac brings a lot to the table. He’s tough, he’s a great ball-handler and post-feeder, he’s good on the boards. When JBo was slumping, he and CMac created a lot of pressure. If JBo is a threat, though, and Connor keeps doing more of what he did against Northwestern with the cutting after feeding Garza, they’ll be fine.
My only beefs this season have been too many minutes with JBo and CMac when neither are providing much offense and too few minutes for Keegan while Patrick and Nunge are chucking up 3s. Patrick looked good against Northwestern, though, and the minutes seemed to balance out pretty well.
My only beefs this season have been too many minutes with JBo and CMac when neither are providing much offense and too few minutes for Keegan while Patrick and Nunge are chucking up 3s. Patrick looked good against Northwestern, though, and the minutes seemed to balance out pretty well.
Pretty amazing that this thread has very little about JB since his big game. Fickled fans. Now the trolls will have to come out to just get posts...
JBo is what he is - one of the best 3pt shooters in B1G history. When he’s shooting well, he’s a true weapon. When he’s not, they need to figure out their way through it.
The interesting question always is, when does a coach decide when a player is not shooting well ... or when do they decide they won't start hitting shots at some point.
McCaffery will never give up on JBo's offensive capabilities. He could be 0 for 20 and would still have the green light. Nor will he sit Connor just because some fans don't recognize what he brings as a coach on the floor. We're 8-2 so we must be doing something right.
The good thing is that JoBo will never go 0-20. McC knows that so he keeps faith in him.
We've been doing something right in all but one game, and it cost us an L we never should have had. 9-1 with a road win seems a lot better to me. But, we ain't so...
BirdistheWord
HB Legend
CMac is especailly valuable when Garza is not facing a high level center (e.g. MN, IL, etc.) given how efficiently he feeds Garzilla.
Also, if two out of three between JoBo/CJF/Weezy are hitting 3's, then CMac is a valuable facilitator. If only ONE of those 3 are hitting from deep, then Connor is a more glaring issue.
He is valuable at the end of games given his toughness, FT shooting and ball handling. But we would benefit from having some other scoring reserves earn additional minutes (JT, Keegan, PMac).
Also, if two out of three between JoBo/CJF/Weezy are hitting 3's, then CMac is a valuable facilitator. If only ONE of those 3 are hitting from deep, then Connor is a more glaring issue.
He is valuable at the end of games given his toughness, FT shooting and ball handling. But we would benefit from having some other scoring reserves earn additional minutes (JT, Keegan, PMac).
Connor can’t be stationary when garza is fed on the post. He must cut and create other opportunities.
he also needs to be able to drive. Every wonder how he leads the nation in turnover margin. He never drives. That is a problem.
he also needs to be able to drive. Every wonder how he leads the nation in turnover margin. He never drives. That is a problem.
We are averaging over 90 pts per game (84 in BIG games). I'm not concerned about teams using Connor's defender to double on Garza. Connor's other attributes outweigh this problem. In the NW game, Connor makes several great passes that set up players for easy shots (and not just post feeds that the color guys bring up). We have no one else on the team that can consistently make good passes like this.
Regarding defense, yes, Connor is undersized at the 4, but in today's game that isn't a major concern too often. PMac and Murray are very active on defense, but there have been a fair number of instances where they have completely lost track of their man.
Regarding defense, yes, Connor is undersized at the 4, but in today's game that isn't a major concern too often. PMac and Murray are very active on defense, but there have been a fair number of instances where they have completely lost track of their man.
I am of the belief that Hayden’s scratch where it itches mantra pertains to basketball as well as football. To me there are a number of games or times within games where the Hawks need to match with the opponents size with 2 bigs and Fran is often remiss or tardy in doing so. While I respect CMac’s floor game, he should be the one riding the pine in these situations and giving Joe W a rest when needed. My biggest complaint with Fran’s coaching is that 3 of the 4 that come off the bench are the size of the team along with Garza. Joe T is the only guard that comes off the bench. To me a better rotation would be starting Keegan or PMac and having CMac and Joe T subbing in.
BirdistheWord
HB Legend
Good points. Bigger issue for this team is how to dish out minutes between CMac, JoBo, PMac, Keegan, JT, Nunge (and Ulis*).
*I continue to argue that Ulis COULD be our best bet as a pure point guard, but that ship appears to have sailed this year. I realize it is extremely difficult to find minutes.
CMac: Covered ad nauseam, but his versatility and passing ability ensure he gets 20+ mpg
JoBo: We desperately need his shooting, and late game FT shooting, but his defense is atrocious. He will get the hook in some cold shooting games or less minutes against elite athleticism.
JT: We need his defense, change of pace and ability to create. He tends to play his own game too often, but is developing nicely. Will likely toggle between 10-20 minute range per game.
Keegan: The guy is an incredible talent as a true frosh. Is so complementary and is one of our only guys who really plays above the rim plus plays solid defense. His minutes will continue to climb, would love for him to see 15-20 as we approach ncaa tourney.
PMac: I like his game, other one who can play above rim and is disruptive on defense. I do see his minutes capping at 10-12 per game based on what we have seen thus far.
Nunge: What a wildcard. Will be an asset against bigger lineups we might face, but has been very inconsistent. His minutes will likely be very spotty, but probably average 12-14 per game.
Here would be projected minutes moving forward, excluding blowout games:
Garza: 35
Weezy: 32
CJF: 32
JoBo: 24
CMac: 23
JT: 16
Keegan: 15
Nunge: 12
PMac: 11
Interesting thoughts.
I'd probably drop Connor's and Jordan's minutes to something like 18 and 20 respectively and re-distribute them among the bench players on a game by game basis. They have valuable contributions to make and any given game they might be on the floor more. I just think that averaged out over the season there will be enough times that Jordan isn't shooting well and Connor isn't contributing enough that the bench guys would make better use of those 9 minutes of floor time.
BirdistheWord
HB Legend
Yes, pinning down minutes is tricky and I tried to "pull" CMac and Jobo's down a bit but agree, if we could get them a bit lower it would open up some additional opportunities for bench guys.
Fran trusts Connor so he's going to play. He's smart and tough and can play multiple positions. He just can't score. His minutes should vary depending on the situation and what the team needs. Same with everyone outside of Joe W, Luka, and CJ. Those 3 should get 30 plus and be allowed to play through shooting slumps. The rest of the rotation- let the matchups, who it hot, etc. determine minutes.
I’ve been a CM critic in years past but he is the only player that can consistently get the ball into the post to Garza without A turnover.
