Cobe

[SJP80]

how many times have we all cheered and pushed for some of these ELITE RECRUITS to come to IC and then wait and wonder for a couple seasons whatever happened to these wonderkids?? Some seem to melt into the " room guys crowd" and some just never find their niche on the team . I mean we read on here every year about this 3 time state champion or this 4 time finalist and how much they have done in high school ....only to never see that talent or success materialize on the college mats? We do love our guys but i totally understand them leaving to find a better situation .... even if it is at a lower competition level. I wish them the best and I hope they find the best situation for themselves.

The recruiting problem is not a recruiting problem, but a style problem. that the Brands have not evolved the Iowa style. They recruit high achieving HS wrestlers that wrestle and fit the Iowa style. Total dedication, great fundamentally, straight ahead in your face, love to grind it out and impose their will on you. That’s who Arnold is that’s who Marinelli was etc. The problem is is that style does not work anymore at the highest (championship) level. The highest level guys are not that guy. They are the funky, creative, long, quick, offensive, guys that seem to continue to get better year after year. As opposed to those who simply hit their level and don’t rise any higher. The creative guys figure those guys out and move past them.

The biggest problem is that the brands believe seem to believe that the way you work through any of these problems is to continue to grind through it and work through it and everything will be OK. They are the embodiment of the Iowa style and to endorse any other style would take a fundamental change in their brain that they’re just not capable of Making. If I believe that style is what made me successful and what made my organization successful how am I enlightened enough to give all of that up and go some other direction?

 

[Sdwrestler_20]

The recruiting problem is not a recruiting problem, but a style problem. that the Brands have not evolved the Iowa style. They recruit high achieving HS wrestlers that wrestle and fit the Iowa style. Total dedication, great fundamentally, straight ahead in your face, love to grind it out and impose their will on you. That’s who Arnold is that’s who Marinelli was etc. The problem is is that style does not work anymore at the highest (championship) level. The highest level guys are not that guy. They are the funky, creative, long, quick, offensive, guys that seem to continue to get better year after year. As opposed to those who simply hit their level and don’t rise any higher. The creative guys figure those guys out and move past them.

The biggest problem is that the brands believe seem to believe that the way you work through any of these problems is to continue to grind through it and work through it and everything will be OK. They are the embodiment of the Iowa style and to endorse any other style would take a fundamental change in their brain that they’re just not capable of Making. If I believe that style is what made me successful and what made my organization successful how am I enlightened enough to give all of that up and go some other direction?

While I understand where you are coming from, a lot of the wrestlers that were in the NCAA finals last year wrestled a fundamental, high paced style. Yes, they can scramble and are explosive, but not necessarily know as scramblers/funky. For example: Daton Fix, Jesse Mendez, Beau Bartlett, Caleb Henson, Levi Haines, Rocco Welsh, Parker Keckeisen, Dusin Plott, Aaron Brooks, Trent Hidlay, Lucas Davison. Solid fundamentals, pace and intensity is still a huge contributing factor to success at this level. We do need to continue to progress in the scrambling department as these guys above are all better scramblers than what we are used to seeing at Iowa. I guess what I am saying is that we do not need to massively overhaul our system but rather add in someone that can teach those scrambling situations to our guys and add that in to what we are already doing well. I see it as a tweak, and not a system overhaul.

 

[SJP80]

While I understand where you are coming from, a lot of the wrestlers that were in the NCAA finals last year wrestled a fundamental, high paced style. Yes, they can scramble and are explosive, but not necessarily know as scramblers/funky. For example: Daton Fix, Jesse Mendez, Beau Bartlett, Caleb Henson, Levi Haines, Rocco Welsh, Parker Keckeisen, Dusin Plott, Aaron Brooks, Trent Hidlay, Lucas Davison. Solid fundamentals, pace and intensity is still a huge contributing factor to success at this level. We do need to continue to progress in the scrambling department as these guys above are all better scramblers than what we are used to seeing at Iowa. I guess what I am saying is that we do not need to massively overhaul our system but rather add in someone that can teach those scrambling situations to our guys and add that in to what we are already doing well. I see it as a tweak, and not a system overhaul.

It will be hard to teach it at this point. If these guys had that type of offense and creativity, they would’ve used it already. Instead they have thousands and thousands of hours drilling technique, making them who they are today. Good luck changing that. Most of the guys being recruited are so successful in high school based off of their physicality, determination, defense, and fundamental positioning. Their offense is predicated off of those attributes, as opposed to creativity, scrambling and working out of unusual positions. Now you’re going to try to untrain that and let offense and creativity take its place. That sounds really super difficult.

 

[Inthecircle]

Kirk and MM are not the same type of transfer as Nagao and Truax. I hope you know that. You aren't providing anything useful to the conversation and just bring down the level of discourse. Try upping your game like Brands is.

That’s easy to say now, since Nagao and Truax didn’t perform anywhere close to where they were projected.
In addition all the dim wit PSU trolls were over here ranting and raving that we got em and you didn’t. I mean hell money couldn’t even buy them according to you guys.
So when we turn the tables and get the best guys available, show a little modesty.

 

[HawkMachine]

I don’t think I’m alone in this but when Riggins committed, I thought he was a 4 year starter and would be a multiple time AA for the Hawks.

Not trying to sound like a know it all but I certainly wasn't excited about him.

Nothing against him personally, but not a kid that we needed to get back to the level we all want. That level of course is winning individual and team titles.

 

[johnyt9]

That’s easy to say now, since Nagao and Truax didn’t perform anywhere close to where they were projected.
In addition all the dim wit PSU trolls were over here ranting and raving that we got em and you didn’t. I mean hell money couldn’t even buy them according to you guys.
So when we turn the tables and get the best guys available, show a little modesty.

PSU fans and modesty. Oil and water my friend

 

[sstark46]

That’s easy to say now, since Nagao and Truax didn’t perform anywhere close to where they were projected.

I think his point was not performance based, but rather that MM and Kerk did not wrestle matches for the previous schools before transferring, whereas Truax and Nagao did, so they weren't "proven commodity" transfers.

Personally I don't think the distinction matters all that much, especially considering Kerk was a highly rated recruit and MM was a junior world silver medalist at the time of transfer

 

[SittingSwitch]

I think his point was not performance based, but rather that MM and Kerk did not wrestle matches for the previous schools before transferring, whereas Truax and Nagao did, so they weren't "proven commodity" transfers.

Personally I don't think the distinction matters all that much, especially considering Kerk was a highly rated recruit and MM was a junior world silver medalist at the time of transfer

Age group world champs aren't proven commodities? So they would be fine with someone poaching Lilledahl?

 

[lookleft goright]

Cael and TnT are using their strengths to build the best team they can; Cael had a bunch of money and a new system that spoke to recruits and the ability to get his guys to peak in March. PSU is the place to be right now.

TnT now have money to compete and they are using it. If they can get the top recruits to buy in, and build the HWC, they will be nipping at or passing Cael up. If not, Cael will stay in the lead. Iowa has a lot to offer for a college experience, but if TnT can't sell it, then no one is going to buy it.

At some time the Hawks need to win some more championships. When they won a few years ago, they were the hot team and had some good momentum. Then they had a couple of failed recruiting classes and everyone is doubting them. I would not count them out, but that doesn't mean I would bet on them either. I will just wait and see.

 

[sstark46]

Age group world champs aren't proven commodities? So they would be fine with someone poaching Lilledahl?

By "proven commodity" transfers I meant the other two had wrestled at their previous schools and AA'd. Kerk and MM never wrestled for their previous schools and had never AA'd.
That said, I agree with you completely, Kerk was a highly rated recruit and MM was a junior world champ. To say they weren't the same type of transfer as the other two is bad faith argument

 

[SPOONER]

Not trying to sound like a know it all but I certainly wasn't excited about him.

Nothing against him personally, but not a kid that we needed to get back to the level we all want. That level of course is winning individual and team titles.

There's no reason to be apologetic. The depth chart tells the story for you.

Wish he'd have stuck around as he's a good team guy but we will be fine.

 

[24timenattychamps]

I think his point was not performance based, but rather that MM and Kerk did not wrestle matches for the previous schools before transferring, whereas Truax and Nagao did, so they weren't "proven commodity" transfers.

Personally I don't think the distinction matters all that much, especially considering Kerk was a highly rated recruit and MM was a junior world silver medalist at the time of transfer

Messenbrink did

 

[IowaFan1414]

They are the embodiment of the Iowa style and to endorse any other style would take a fundamental change in their brain that they’re just not capable of Making. If I believe that style is what made me successful and what made my organization successful how am I enlightened enough to give all of that up and go some other direction?

I can see where a lack of recruiting success could make you think this is true. It's not. It couldn't be further from reality. It's not how they think, it's not how they coach. They are far more "enlightened" than you think.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

It's time now - you guys sweating winning this year?

Lol, no. However, I'll give credit where credit is due. Bob/Tom has put together an excellent looking team for Iowa this season. It will be interesting to see if the same kind of success in the portal can be had next offseason with all the extra covid year wrestlers clearing out.

 

[HikeNatParks]

PSU fans and modesty. Oil and water my friend

No fan of arrogance, I’ve admitted on both sites that ours (HVI) is where humility goes to die. That said, while I want all Lions to beat all Hawks, it’s fantasy with Iowa fielding six new stud starters in its last 7 weights, sandwiching probable finalist Cali. Tack on Drake at 133 and that’s a helluva dual challenge.
That, folks, is likely the biggest slice of humble pie you’ll ever get from one of us arrogant sons-of-b’s out east. Maybe ration it out to make it last.

 

[Grapple24]

The recruiting problem is not a recruiting problem, but a style problem. that the Brands have not evolved the Iowa style. They recruit high achieving HS wrestlers that wrestle and fit the Iowa style. Total dedication, great fundamentally, straight ahead in your face, love to grind it out and impose their will on you. That’s who Arnold is that’s who Marinelli was etc. The problem is is that style does not work anymore at the highest (championship) level. The highest level guys are not that guy. They are the funky, creative, long, quick, offensive, guys that seem to continue to get better year after year. As opposed to those who simply hit their level and don’t rise any higher. The creative guys figure those guys out and move past them.

The biggest problem is that the brands believe seem to believe that the way you work through any of these problems is to continue to grind through it and work through it and everything will be OK. They are the embodiment of the Iowa style and to endorse any other style would take a fundamental change in their brain that they’re just not capable of Making. If I believe that style is what made me successful and what made my organization successful how am I enlightened enough to give all of that up and go some other direction?

This post nailed it