Controversial shot-clock violation that counted for WI

[OnceAhawk]

Dan, i dont think you are right on this.

when the shot clock is at 35, it is at 35.0

similarly when the shot clock hits 0, it is 0.0

so when the shot clock says 1, it might be 1.0 or less; nevertheless, once running, the clock is ticking down to .9, .8, .7, etc until it hits 0, which means 0.0 left in the shot clock

 

[EagleHawk]

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

yep, that's 4 pts where KY got screwed (shot clock violation and the Bronson K layup where he was out of bounds, came back in and made a lay up)

another 2 pts: the Dekker flop. No way that was a charge but Dekker flopped like a rag doll to convince the ref. That was a possession taken away from KY (the KY big was in the lane for an easy 2); instead, the charge was called and the ball was awarded to WI


This post was edited on 4/6 12:24 AM by OnceAhawk

Then I will raise you the offensive foul on the Wisconsin end of the court late in the second half. I don't remember who it was on, I think it was Gasser, as he was driving down the right side of the lane. Very little contact but a good acting job.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

Originally posted by EagleHawk:

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

yep, that's 4 pts where KY got screwed (shot clock violation and the Bronson K layup where he was out of bounds, came back in and made a lay up)

another 2 pts: the Dekker flop. No way that was a charge but Dekker flopped like a rag doll to convince the ref. That was a possession taken away from KY (the KY big was in the lane for an easy 2); instead, the charge was called and the ball was awarded to WI



This post was edited on 4/6 12:24 AM by OnceAhawk

Then I will raise you the offensive foul on the Wisconsin end of the court late in the second half. I don't remember who it was on, I think it was Gasser, as he was driving down the right side of the lane. Very little contact but a good acting job.

There were some bad calls both ways, but overall, it was a pretty evenly called game. Right after the flagrant non-call, which was probably the worst mistake of the night, Hayes was called for a charge that I believe should have been a foul on the UK big guy. The UK player bumped Hayes and hit him with his thigh moving laterally toward the basket, Hayes was called for the charge because he stuck out his left arm, partly to keep his balance and partly to push the UK player back. The extension of the arm was what the official called, but Hayes had been fouled before he extended the arm.

After those two calls (and I think there was another questionable call against Gasser), I thought UK was going to take over the game. To the Badgers credit, instead of pouting about some bad calls, they sucked it up and played great defense the rest of the game. Wisconsin is an incredibly disciplined team, in addition to being pretty damn talented.

Should be another great game tonight!

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

i think what a lot of people are missing here is that when the clock goes from "1" to "0" it is not 0.00. it is 0.99. there is 99/100ths of a second left to shoot the ball when the clock shows "0."

that being said, a photo will do you no good in making the determination.

by rule, the "shot clock buzzer" is the determining factor of whether a player got a shot off in time.

As you may recall it was very loud in the arena during the play. the officials have to time the ball leaving the hand and hearing/reacting to the buzzer to within tenths of a second during live game action. This is very hard to make this judgment call and is very easy to understand, for most people, why and how they could have missed it or made a mistake here.

The officials made a lot of mistakes, as all officiating crews do literally every game that has ever been played.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

0 on the shot clock is 0.00

the picture most certainly is proof

False. at the moment it turns from 1 -> 0 is it 0.99 remaining. 0.99 after turning to "0" is it actually 0.00.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

Dan, i dont think you are right on this.

when the shot clock is at 35, it is at 35.0

similarly when the shot clock hits 0, it is 0.0

so when the shot clock says 1, it might be 1.0 or less; nevertheless, once running, the clock is ticking down to .9, .8, .7, etc until it hits 0, which means 0.0 left in the shot clock

precisely the opposite.

when a clock starts at 35 it IS at 35.0. However, once it begins, it immediately flips to "34" there is no pause. it pauses on 34 for 1 full second and flips to 33. When the clock flips from 1 to 0 there is still 0.99 remaining. that is why the buzzer is used instead of the clock. the officials do not make the 35 second call based off the clock.

 

[OnceAhawk]

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

Dan, i dont think you are right on this.

when the shot clock is at 35, it is at 35.0

similarly when the shot clock hits 0, it is 0.0

so when the shot clock says 1, it might be 1.0 or less; nevertheless, once running, the clock is ticking down to .9, .8, .7, etc until it hits 0, which means 0.0 left in the shot clock

precisely the opposite.

when a clock starts at 35 it IS at 35.0. However, once it begins, it immediately flips to "34" there is no pause. it pauses on 34 for 1 full second and flips to 33. When the clock flips from 1 to 0 there is still 0.99 remaining. that is why the buzzer is used instead of the clock. the officials do not make the 35 second call based off the clock.

all of the reporters i have heard have stated this was a shot clock violation so when the clock says ZERO, it is a violation

 

[markfromj]

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

Dan, i dont think you are right on this.

when the shot clock is at 35, it is at 35.0

similarly when the shot clock hits 0, it is 0.0

so when the shot clock says 1, it might be 1.0 or less; nevertheless, once running, the clock is ticking down to .9, .8, .7, etc until it hits 0, which means 0.0 left in the shot clock

precisely the opposite.

when a clock starts at 35 it IS at 35.0. However, once it begins, it immediately flips to "34" there is no pause. it pauses on 34 for 1 full second and flips to 33. When the clock flips from 1 to 0 there is still 0.99 remaining. that is why the buzzer is used instead of the clock. the officials do not make the 35 second call based off the clock.

all of the reporters i have heard have stated this was a shot clock violation so when the clock says ZERO, it is a violation

Correction: One of them said it, then the rest repeated it.

 

[OnceAhawk]

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

0 on the shot clock is 0.00

the picture most certainly is proof

False. at the moment it turns from 1 -> 0 is it 0.99 remaining. 0.99 after turning to "0" is it actually 0.00.

False

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

Dan, i dont think you are right on this.

when the shot clock is at 35, it is at 35.0

similarly when the shot clock hits 0, it is 0.0

so when the shot clock says 1, it might be 1.0 or less; nevertheless, once running, the clock is ticking down to .9, .8, .7, etc until it hits 0, which means 0.0 left in the shot clock

precisely the opposite.

when a clock starts at 35 it IS at 35.0. However, once it begins, it immediately flips to "34" there is no pause. it pauses on 34 for 1 full second and flips to 33. When the clock flips from 1 to 0 there is still 0.99 remaining. that is why the buzzer is used instead of the clock. the officials do not make the 35 second call based off the clock.

all of the reporters i have heard have stated this was a shot clock violation so when the clock says ZERO, it is a violation

where in my post have I said it was not a shot clock violation? I'm simply clearing up the matter of the shot clock for people who don't understand how math works. when the shot clock changes from 1 to 0 there is 0.99 seconds remaining. you stating the wrong thing over and over will not change that any.

 

[ferentzin04]

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

Dan, i dont think you are right on this.

when the shot clock is at 35, it is at 35.0

similarly when the shot clock hits 0, it is 0.0

so when the shot clock says 1, it might be 1.0 or less; nevertheless, once running, the clock is ticking down to .9, .8, .7, etc until it hits 0, which means 0.0 left in the shot clock

precisely the opposite.

when a clock starts at 35 it IS at 35.0. However, once it begins, it immediately flips to "34" there is no pause. it pauses on 34 for 1 full second and flips to 33. When the clock flips from 1 to 0 there is still 0.99 remaining. that is why the buzzer is used instead of the clock. the officials do not make the 35 second call based off the clock.

Not necessarily. This video is a perfect example. The buzzer sounds exactly when the shot clock hits zero. Really any timer I've ever used that doesn't go to tenths of a second is the same way. It doesn't sit at zero for a second before the timer goes off, that kind of defeats the purpose, don't you think?

I do know that some (maybe all?) NBA shot clocks have tenths of a second on them though. Maybe the NCAA needs to do that as well as the buzzer/backboard light.

MSU Shot clock violations

 

[BioHawk]

All I can say is that this game was a poorly officiated game all around. I do think that the bad calls pretty much canceled each other out in the end and ultimately isn't what decided the game. Wisconsin being a better team is what did that.

What's sad is they couldn't find better officials for a game at that level. There's no excuse for the travesty of officiating that was. It's a shame that it's even a discussion.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

the shot clock is different than the game clock. many times at the end of the game you will see a game clock with the "tenths" showing IE. 6.7 seconds remaining. if this were the shot clock it would be showing "6" NOT "7."

It would be silly and wrong to have it show "7" when there is less than 7 seconds remaining. your assertion is incorrect and i dont care how many ignorant sportscasters assert the shot clock determines the penalty. the buzzer determines the penalty, not the clock.

 

[whatsup12579er]

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

Dan, i dont think you are right on this.

when the shot clock is at 35, it is at 35.0

similarly when the shot clock hits 0, it is 0.0

so when the shot clock says 1, it might be 1.0 or less; nevertheless, once running, the clock is ticking down to .9, .8, .7, etc until it hits 0, which means 0.0 left in the shot clock

precisely the opposite.

when a clock starts at 35 it IS at 35.0. However, once it begins, it immediately flips to "34" there is no pause. it pauses on 34 for 1 full second and flips to 33. When the clock flips from 1 to 0 there is still 0.99 remaining. that is why the buzzer is used instead of the clock. the officials do not make the 35 second call based off the clock.

all of the reporters i have heard have stated this was a shot clock violation so when the clock says ZERO, it is a violation

The bolded is correct and the italic is incorrect. In the picture there could be anywhere from 0.9 to 0.0 on the shot clock. You can't tell from the picture. You also can't tell from the picture if the buzzer is sounding which indicates the end of the shot clock. What you can tell from the picture is the shot clock light is not lit up. This indicates that there is still time left on the shot clock in the picture.

 

[slipHawk]

I thought it skewed Wisky the last (most important) 3 minutes, but the officiating was absolutely horrible in general. Worst I've seen this tourney.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

why do officials not make the call off the clock? because they aren't looking at the shot clock, they have assignment of areas on the court they are supposed to be watching. they aren't supposed to be staring up at the clock and trying to time the 35 second call. that is why the buzzer is used.

 

[ferentzin04]

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:
why do officials not make the call off the clock? because they aren't looking at the shot clock, they have assignment of areas on the court they are supposed to be watching. they aren't supposed to be staring up at the clock and trying to time the 35 second call. that is why the buzzer is used.

The clock isn't there for he officials, it's there for the players. Why on earth would they set it up so when that clock hits zero, you still have .99 seconds to shoot? The answer is they don't. Zero on that clock is supposed to equal 0.0. Just like any timer. The video I posted is a perfect example. The buzzer sounds when the shit clock above the basket hits zero, not .99 seconds later.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Originally posted by ferentzin04:

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:
why do officials not make the call off the clock? because they aren't looking at the shot clock, they have assignment of areas on the court they are supposed to be watching. they aren't supposed to be staring up at the clock and trying to time the 35 second call. that is why the buzzer is used.

Why on earth would they set it up so when that clock hits zero, you still have .99 seconds to shoot? The answer is they don't.

because that is how math works. sorry you don't understand it. try and re-read some of my posts more slowly or have someone else explain them to you partner.

 

[DanL53]

Originally posted by whatsup12579er:

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

Dan, i dont think you are right on this.

when the shot clock is at 35, it is at 35.0

similarly when the shot clock hits 0, it is 0.0

so when the shot clock says 1, it might be 1.0 or less; nevertheless, once running, the clock is ticking down to .9, .8, .7, etc until it hits 0, which means 0.0 left in the shot clock

precisely the opposite.

when a clock starts at 35 it IS at 35.0. However, once it begins, it immediately flips to "34" there is no pause. it pauses on 34 for 1 full second and flips to 33. When the clock flips from 1 to 0 there is still 0.99 remaining. that is why the buzzer is used instead of the clock. the officials do not make the 35 second call based off the clock.

all of the reporters i have heard have stated this was a shot clock violation so when the clock says ZERO, it is a violation

The bolded is correct and the italic is incorrect. In the picture there could be anywhere from 0.9 to 0.0 on the shot clock. You can't tell from the picture. You also can't tell from the picture if the buzzer is sounding which indicates the end of the shot clock. What you can tell from the picture is the shot clock light is not lit up. This indicates that there is still time left on the shot clock in the picture.

This thing. Not random. The subject even came up during the regular season.

I can see where people get confused by this thing:

But I must insist the real problem was this thing:

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

SHOT CLOCK: "35" = 35.00

begin -> SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "34" 34.99 -> 34.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "33" 33.99 -> 33.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "32" 32.99 -> 32.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "31" 31.99 -> 31.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "30" 30.99 -> 30.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "29" 29.99 -> 29.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "28" 28.99 -> 28.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "27" 27.99 -> 27.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "26" 26.99 -> 26.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "25" 25.99 -> 25.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "24" 24.99 -> 24.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "23" 23.99 -> 23.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "22" 22.99 -> 22.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "21" 21.99 -> 21.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "20" 20.99 -> 20.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "19" 19.99 -> 19.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "18" 18.99 -> 18.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "17" 17.99 -> 17.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "16" 16.99 -> 16.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "15" 15.99 -> 15.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "14" 14.99 -> 14.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "13" 13.99 -> 13.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "12" 12.99 -> 12.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "11" 11.99 -> 11.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "10" 10.99 -> 10.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "9" 9.99 -> 9.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "8" 8.99 -> 8.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "7" 7.99 -> 7.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "6" 6.99 -> 6.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "5" 5.99 -> 5.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "4" 4.99 -> 4.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "3" 3.99 -> 3.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "2" 2.99 -> 2.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "1" 1.99 -> 1.00 = 1 second
SHOT CLOCK CHANGES TO "0" 0.99 -> 0.00 = 1 second

there endeth the math lesson.

 

[ferentzin04]

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:

Originally posted by ferentzin04:

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:
why do officials not make the call off the clock? because they aren't looking at the shot clock, they have assignment of areas on the court they are supposed to be watching. they aren't supposed to be staring up at the clock and trying to time the 35 second call. that is why the buzzer is used.

Why on earth would they set it up so when that clock hits zero, you still have .99 seconds to shoot? The answer is they don't.

because that is how math works. sorry you don't understand it. try and re-read some of my posts more slowly or have someone else explain them to you partner.

Pulling the math card? You have to be trolling at this point. Let's go through this mathematically then. When that clock says 35, it has been 0 seconds, when it flips to 34, it has been 1, 33 it as been 2, 32 it has been 3, 31-4, 30-5. By the time it flips to 0 it has been 35 seconds.

You are under some strange assumption that the clock starts at 35 but somehow and for some reason changes instantaneously to 34. That's not how it works. That's not how any second timer. If it did it would be pointless, because the timer wouldn't end at 0, there would still be 1 second left. They don't work like that.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Originally posted by ferentzin04:

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:

Originally posted by ferentzin04:

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:
why do officials not make the call off the clock? because they aren't looking at the shot clock, they have assignment of areas on the court they are supposed to be watching. they aren't supposed to be staring up at the clock and trying to time the 35 second call. that is why the buzzer is used.

Why on earth would they set it up so when that clock hits zero, you still have .99 seconds to shoot? The answer is they don't.

because that is how math works. sorry you don't understand it. try and re-read some of my posts more slowly or have someone else explain them to you partner.

Pulling the math card? You have to be trolling at this point. Let's go through this mathematically then. When that clock says 35, it has been 0 seconds, when it flips to 34, it has been 1, 33 it as been 2, 32 it has been 3, 31-4, 30-5. By the time it flips to 0 it has been 35 seconds.

You are under some strange assumption that the clock starts at 35 but somehow and for some reason changes instantaneously to 34. That's not how it works. That's not how any second timer. If it did it would be pointless, because the timer wouldn't end at 0, there would still be 1 second left. They don't work like that.

what you are asserting here is that while there is 34.01 seconds on the shot clock left the shot clock still shows "35"

IE: you are asserting 34.01 >= 35. sorry partner, try again.

 

[ferentzin04]

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:

Originally posted by ferentzin04:

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:

Originally posted by ferentzin04:

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:
why do officials not make the call off the clock? because they aren't looking at the shot clock, they have assignment of areas on the court they are supposed to be watching. they aren't supposed to be staring up at the clock and trying to time the 35 second call. that is why the buzzer is used.

Why on earth would they set it up so when that clock hits zero, you still have .99 seconds to shoot? The answer is they don't.

because that is how math works. sorry you don't understand it. try and re-read some of my posts more slowly or have someone else explain them to you partner.

Pulling the math card? You have to be trolling at this point. Let's go through this mathematically then. When that clock says 35, it has been 0 seconds, when it flips to 34, it has been 1, 33 it as been 2, 32 it has been 3, 31-4, 30-5. By the time it flips to 0 it has been 35 seconds.

You are under some strange assumption that the clock starts at 35 but somehow and for some reason changes instantaneously to 34. That's not how it works. That's not how any second timer. If it did it would be pointless, because the timer wouldn't end at 0, there would still be 1 second left. They don't work like that.

what you are asserting here is that while there is 34.01 seconds on the shot clock left the shot clock still shows "35"

IE: you are asserting 34.01 >= 35. sorry partner, try again.

You do realize that the clocks we are talking about, those right above the backboard, are designed to measure time in seconds, and seconds only. So what you are asserting is that with those types of timers, 0 actually equals 1. When it

Explain to my why in my video, which has two separate examples in it, the buzzer sounds exactly when that shot clock timer above the basket hits 0.

 

[Titanhawk2]

Originally posted by BubsFinn:
He didn't get the shot off. That is obvious. If you can't see that, you must want to not see it.
The slap in the face was also obvious. It should have at least been a Flagrant 1, but going by the letter of the rule it was a 2.

You can't read previous posts. That is obvious.

 

[Boyd_Givens]

Shot clock reads 1 second. It then takes one second to read 0. 0 is zero seconds period. Anyone arguing anything else is a moron. Not only is the ball still in his hands at 0, it's still in his hands about a second later. That said, it was very poorly officiated game on both ends of the ball, however, this violation and the magical out of bounds jump inbounds grab the ball basket cost UK 4 very real points straight off the scoreboard.

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Originally posted by ferentzin04:

You do realize that the clocks we are talking about, those right above the backboard, are designed to measure time in seconds, and seconds only.

So what you are asserting is that with those types of timers, 0 actually equals 1. When it

Explain to my why in my video, which has two separate examples in it, the buzzer sounds exactly when that shot clock timer above the basket hits 0.

Yes, I understand they are in seconds only and therein lies your confusion. It would be nice if they did it in 35.00 - > 0.00 because you would instantly and clearly see the folly of your position, but alas, the shot clock only shows as full seconds.

Secondly, no I am not asserting 0 = 1. I am asserting properly that "0" represents "Less Than 1." IE. 0 < 1. IE. "0" on the shot clock represents all of the time between 0.99999999 and down to 0.00. It doesn't make sense because there is no tenths/hundredths on the shot clock, but if there were, it would make perfect sense.

With regard to the video I understand that sometimes during an audio/video production they try to line up the shot clock with the game clock/buzzer for clarity purposes. Meaning the video feed of the is on a slight delay from looking at it live so it "lines up" with what you would think it should when the buzzer goes off. That is about the best explanation i can give you. They do seem to line up in the linked videos but I'm pretty sure it would be different if one were watching it live.

That all being said I don't think he got it off in time and it was a shot clock violation that should have negated the bucket. I just think and am stating that it was a very difficult call to make given the crowd noise, the heat of the moment, etc and that the photographic "proof" provided here isn't as clear as some want to think it is.. if someone were to show a live clip and a countdown of 0.99 from when that shot clock changed to zero and show where the ball was in his hand 0.99 seconds later, THAT would be confirmed proof to me.

it's like CSI up in here today.

This post was edited on 4/6 2:11 PM by Phenomenally Frantastic

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Originally posted by Boyd_Givens:
Shot clock reads 1 second. It then takes one second to read 0. 0 is zero seconds period.

Uhh, no, sorry. "1" on the shot clock represents 1.99 to 1.00. "0" represents 0.99 to 0.00.


This is the exact same reason they have tenths represented on the game clock.

The game clock would read "0:00" left and there would be 0.99 seconds left in the game.

Instead they use tenths represent the remaining second. For example: a random buzzer beater got the shot off with "0.7" left.

In this example, if they didn't use tenths the game clock would read 0:00, ya moron.

This post was edited on 4/6 2:05 PM by Phenomenally Frantastic

 

[LaoHawk]

Real numbers don't exist, only Whole numbers, well... maybe... we need a mathematician or physicist to help expalin?

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

everyone should think of it this way:

if they didn't use tenths to represent less than 1... every buzzer beater that had 0.2 , 0.5, 0.8 whatever would show on the game clock as "0:00" and the basket would still count.

they would have to then explain this exact argument over and over and over again to people who don't understand math.

maybe it's time they added tenths to the shot clock......

 

[ferentzin04]

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:

With regard to the video I understand that sometimes during an audio/video production they try to line up the shot clock with the game clock/buzzer for clarity purposes. Meaning the video feed of the is on a slight delay from looking at it live so it "lines up" with what you would think it should when the buzzer goes off. That is about the best explanation i can give you. They do seem to line up in the linked videos but I'm pretty sure it would be different if one were watching it

Ok.

 

[HawkinMN]

Isn't the game over?

 

[Phenomenally Frantastic]

Originally posted by ferentzin04:

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:

With regard to the video I understand that sometimes during an audio/video production they try to line up the shot clock with the game clock/buzzer for clarity purposes. Meaning the video feed of the is on a slight delay from looking at it live so it "lines up" with what you would think it should when the buzzer goes off. That is about the best explanation i can give you. They do seem to line up in the linked videos but I'm pretty sure it would be different if one were watching it

Ok.

Laugh all you want, you asked for an explanation. I tried to provide an answer. Either way, in your video, the first shot clock violation buzzer goes off with 01 still showing on the shot clock. There is a discrepancy there but keep laughing if you don't think there are differences between seeing/hearing something live on the court and watching it on TV where they are having two different things going on: 1) the camera video feed showing the overall view, and 2) a computer software program simulating the time remaining in the game and the time remaining on the shot clock. it's not like this is 100% accurate down to the 0.00 second. but whatever.

 

[ferentzin04]

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:

Originally posted by ferentzin04:

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:

With regard to the video I understand that sometimes during an audio/video production they try to line up the shot clock with the game clock/buzzer for clarity purposes. Meaning the video feed of the is on a slight delay from looking at it live so it "lines up" with what you would think it should when the buzzer goes off. That is about the best explanation i can give you. They do seem to line up in the linked videos but I'm pretty sure it would be different if one were watching it

Ok.

Laugh all you want, you asked for an explanation. I tried to provide an answer. Either way, in your video, the first shot clock violation buzzer goes off with 01 still showing on the shot clock. There is a discrepancy there but keep laughing if you don't think there are differences between seeing/hearing something live on the court and watching it on TV where they are having two different things going on: 1) the camera video feed showing the overall view, and 2) a computer software program simulating the time remaining in the game and the time remaining on the shot clock. it's not like this is 100% accurate down to the 0.00 second. but whatever.

Of course it isn't 100% accurate, that's why the buzzer and in some cases the light behind the basket are what they are supposed to use, but let me ask you one question. What do you think would be easiest for everyone involved, a) having a software program going in after the fact (or even live) to adjust the audio and video feeds to sink up w hen the buzzer sounds, or b) programming the actual clock above the backboard that can't portray tenths of a seconds to hit zero when there is 0.0 seconds remaining so anyone looking at it knows there is actually no time left on the clock?

I don't know, but to me one of theses scenarios seems infinitely easier than the other for everyone.

 

[OnceAhawk]

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

Dan, i dont think you are right on this.

when the shot clock is at 35, it is at 35.0

similarly when the shot clock hits 0, it is 0.0

so when the shot clock says 1, it might be 1.0 or less; nevertheless, once running, the clock is ticking down to .9, .8, .7, etc until it hits 0, which means 0.0 left in the shot clock

precisely the opposite.

when a clock starts at 35 it IS at 35.0. However, once it begins, it immediately flips to "34" there is no pause. it pauses on 34 for 1 full second and flips to 33. When the clock flips from 1 to 0 there is still 0.99 remaining. that is why the buzzer is used instead of the clock. the officials do not make the 35 second call based off the clock.

all of the reporters i have heard have stated this was a shot clock violation so when the clock says ZERO, it is a violation

where in my post have I said it was not a shot clock violation? I'm simply clearing up the matter of the shot clock for people who don't understand how math works. when the shot clock changes from 1 to 0 there is 0.99 seconds remaining. you stating the wrong thing over and over will not change that any.

as you will see in the posts that follow you are wrong. sorry, but you are wrong

 

[Madman_1]

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

Originally posted by Phenomenally Frantastic:

Originally posted by OnceAhawk:

Dan, i dont think you are right on this.

when the shot clock is at 35, it is at 35.0

similarly when the shot clock hits 0, it is 0.0

so when the shot clock says 1, it might be 1.0 or less; nevertheless, once running, the clock is ticking down to .9, .8, .7, etc until it hits 0, which means 0.0 left in the shot clock

precisely the opposite.

when a clock starts at 35 it IS at 35.0. However, once it begins, it immediately flips to "34" there is no pause. it pauses on 34 for 1 full second and flips to 33. When the clock flips from 1 to 0 there is still 0.99 remaining. that is why the buzzer is used instead of the clock. the officials do not make the 35 second call based off the clock.

all of the reporters i have heard have stated this was a shot clock violation so when the clock says ZERO, it is a violation

where in my post have I said it was not a shot clock violation? I'm simply clearing up the matter of the shot clock for people who don't understand how math works. when the shot clock changes from 1 to 0 there is 0.99 seconds remaining. you stating the wrong thing over and over will not change that any.

as you will see in the posts that follow you are wrong. sorry, but you are wrong

Actually, as far as how a clock that doesn't show tenths would operate, he is exactly right. It's pretty obvious and I can only conclude that you keep arguing due to an unwillingness to admit you are wrong.

The main point is that the VISIBLE shot clock is irrelevant. It is not used at any time during the game to determine a shot clock violation. The buzzer is. The reason for that is obvious: an official must be able to see when the ball leaves the shooter's hand. In many cases, he could not do that and also accurately see the visible clock at the same time.

So.... the visible clock is not, and by rule cannot be, used as proof of a shot clock violation.


It will be interesting to see if this sinks in...

.

This post was edited on 4/6 5:46 PM by Madman_1

 

[ferentzin04]

Originally posted by Madman_1:

Actually, as far as how a clock that doesn't show tenths would operate, he is exactly right. It's pretty obvious and I can only conclude that you keep arguing due to an unwillingness to admit you are wrong.

Do me a favor. Walk into your kitchen. Odds are your microwave or oven timer only goes to seconds and not tenths of seconds. Set the timer for 35 seconds and watch it closely. I gaurantee you that timer will sound exactly when it hits zero, not 1 second after it hits zero. That's kind of the point.

It's kind of funny how many adults don't understand the basic function of a simple timer. If you have a timer that doesn't buzz as soon as it hits zero, I hate to tell you but it's broken.

 

[navyrules]

Originally posted by ferentzin04:

Originally posted by Madman_1:

Actually, as far as how a clock that doesn't show tenths would operate, he is exactly right. It's pretty obvious and I can only conclude that you keep arguing due to an unwillingness to admit you are wrong.

Do me a favor. Walk into your kitchen. Odds are your microwave or oven timer only goes to seconds and not tenths of seconds. Set the timer for 35 seconds and watch it closely. I gaurantee you that timer will sound exactly when it hits zero, not 1 second after it hits zero. That's kind of the point.

It's kind of funny how many adults don't understand the basic function of a simple timer. If you have a timer that doesn't buzz as soon as it hits zero, I hate to tell you but it's broken.

I have operated the timer on scoreboards at high school/college basketball games for more than 20 years. Years ago, prior to the game clock having tenths of a second, there were numerous times when the clock was stopped at the end of a quarter/game and the clock would read "0" but the buzzer would not sound. EVERY OFFICIAL said that we have to let the buzzer ring. So, the ball would be inbounded and the clock started, and the buzzer went off almost immediately. Why? Because these clocks are designed to run down after the clock reaches "0". This is exactly why all scoreboard timers now have tenths of second.

If you recall, there was a game in January of 2003 when Jermaine O'Neal beat the Pistons with a shot clock buzzer beater. The images clearly showed the ball still in his hand when the shot clock reached zero. The NBA issued a statement saying that "0" did not mean there was not 'remnant' time remaining. Subsequently the NBA shot clocks were equipped with tenths of a second on them. Which is what the NCAA needs to do as well.