Could the British have saved the Lusitania?

[lucas80]

Interesting interview with Erik Larson about his new book about the sinking of the Lusitania. The sinking of that ship 100 years ago hastened US entry into WWI. Popular belief at the time was that it was the fault of the Lusitania's captain, and it was an unprovoked attack on a non-combatant ship by the Germans. We've since come to know that the ship was carrying munitions, and Larson delves into British code breaking efforts in WWI. The British identified the submarine that sank the Lusitania as it left port, and knew what it's assigned patrol area was. They knew when it would get on station.
Looks like good read from a reliably good author.

NPR Link

 

[ottumwan in tx]

it is entirely possible the brits put the munitions on there to tempt the germans, to bait them into attacking it so that the brits could have an excuse

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

The Lusitania was used by Britain to draw the United States into the war.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[ottumwan in tx]

Originally posted by CarolinaHawkeye:
The Lusitania was used by Britain to draw the United States into the war.

Posted from Rivals Mobile

exactly, so could they have saved it by not purposely putting the arms on there and parading it in front of the germans?

 

[ottumwan in tx]

 

[h-hawk]

I have seen two reviews of the book so far and both were enthusiastic. (Entertainment Weekly and Sunday Register.)

Still amazing to think that during the next World War, the Allies transported almost entire divisions on the unescorted fast liners Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth.

 

[lucas80]

Originally posted by ottumwan in tx:

The article mentions that Churchill did not believe the Germans would attack a passenger liner. He was probably not alone in this belief.

 

[Lone Clone]

Originally posted by h-hawk:
I have seen two reviews of the book so far and both were enthusiastic. (Entertainment Weekly and Sunday Register.)

Still amazing to think that during the next World War, the Allies transported almost entire divisions on the unescorted fast liners Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth.

The Queens were considered to be fast enough that they didn't need escorts -- which turned out to be true.

Larson writes good books.

 

[h-hawk]

Originally posted by Lone Clone:

Originally posted by h-hawk:
I have seen two reviews of the book so far and both were enthusiastic. (Entertainment Weekly and Sunday Register.)

Still amazing to think that during the next World War, the Allies transported almost entire divisions on the unescorted fast liners Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth.

The Queens were considered to be fast enough that they didn't need escorts -- which turned out to be true.

Larson writes good books.

And I have to believe the Allies thought they could read the U-boat codes fast enough so as to route those swift ships away from the German subs. It is just scary to think what a lucky German boat might have accomplished with so many troops aboard those liners.
I think the worst American disaster of this sort was the E-boats attacking the convoy practicing for D-Day and drowning almost 1,000 soldiers. The huge British liners sometimes carried over 10,000 men each with a record of 15,740! (per Wiki).

 

[Nat Algren]

Originally posted by lucas80:

Originally posted by ottumwan in tx:

The article mentions that Churchill did not believe the Germans would attack a passenger liner. He was probably not alone in this belief.

If that is what the article reads, then I wouldn't put much stock in Larson. Churchill darn well knew they would attack. The German Embassy attempted to place ads in 50 newspapers warning that the Lusitania was a target of war because it was carrying munitions. However, the U.S. gov prevented them from being printed except for the one run by the Des Moines Register. Churchill had to know.

The Lusitania was built to military specs and was registered with the British Admiralty as an armed auxiliary cruiser. The passengers were cover. Knowing all of this, Churchill, in his role as First Lord of the Admiralty, ordered the Lusitania's destroyer protection to abandon her. In addition, the ship was ordered to travel at reduced speed, making it an easy target. After the well placed torpedo, a reported mighty second explosion from 'WITHIN' ripped her apart. She hit the ocean floor in 18 minutes.

Americans were overwhelmingly opposed to get involved in this war. It was Europe's war. After this action, Americans demanded war. They were played like a Stradivarius by JP Morgan, Wilson and House.

 

[downtown hawk redux]

Originally posted by Nat Algren:

Originally posted by lucas80:

Originally posted by ottumwan in tx:

The article mentions that Churchill did not believe the Germans would attack a passenger liner. He was probably not alone in this belief.

If that is what the article reads, then I wouldn't put much stock in Larson. Churchill darn well knew they would attack. The German Embassy attempted to place ads in 50 newspapers warning that the Lusitania was a target of war because it was carrying munitions. However, the U.S. gov prevented them from being printed except for the one run by the Des Moines Register. Churchill had to know.

The Lusitania was built to military specs and was registered with the British Admiralty as an armed auxiliary cruiser. The passengers were cover. Knowing all of this, Churchill, in his role as First Lord of the Admiralty, ordered the Lusitania's destroyer protection to abandon her. In addition, the ship was ordered to travel at reduced speed, making it an easy target. After the well placed torpedo, a reported mighty second explosion from 'WITHIN' ripped her apart. She hit the ocean floor in 18 minutes.

Americans were overwhelmingly opposed to get involved in this war. It was Europe's war. After this action, Americans demanded war. They were played like a Stradivarius by JP Morgan, Wilson and House.

Yep and Room 40 (the WWI version of Bletchley Park -- British Intelligence) knew where Schweiger's (U-boat captain) boat was. In the Garden of Beasts was a great book. Looking forward to this one.

BTW: Irish divers found an endless cache of ammo (what didn't blow out -- mostly rifle ammo) in the holds on the sunken ship.



I've read Larson before

 

[TheCainer]

The U-Boat threat was largely gone by the time we started sending troops en masse to Great Britain. Allied escort ships and aircraft had taken a huge toll on the u-boats during 1943.

Link

 

[Nat Algren]

Right church, wrong pew err/war.

 

[rchawk]

I disagree that Wilson tried to push the U.S. into the war in any way. My impression is that he tried his best to keep us out until the national war fever became too much for him. The Lusitania was sunk in 1915. The Zimmerman telegram was sent in January 1917.

 

[mauricehawki]

No but maybe Ukraine.