Cubs 2016 Thread

[lucas80]

Miggy Montero just beat the Dodgers in game one of the NLCS on an 0-2 grand slam in the 8th. This amazing season continues.
Edit: It was Baez with an 0-2 strike who came up huge in the game before against the Giants. What a year of big time performances in critical situations. Merry Christmas to me.

 

[HawkRugged17]

 

[cigaretteman]

View embedded media

It seems so long ago now.

 

[noleclone2]

It seems so long ago now.

The dynasty that never manifested. Thought we were going to go on a Red Sox run similar to what they did after they broke their curse.

 

[hawkifann]

The dynasty that never manifested. Thought we were going to go on a Red Sox run similar to what they did after they broke their curse.

Would you really call Boston since 2004 a “dynasty”? I wouldn’t. They have won 4 championships over 17 season, which is impressive, but an actual dynasty was not going to happen in this era, not when the Dodgers, Astros and Rays are development machines and the Dodgers, Yankees and Red Sox continue to spend massive amounts of money. Winning is hard. There are just too many good teams at the top to have expectations of winning at dynasty levels.

What the Cubs did since 2015 was unprecedented in franchise history. From 1906-1910, the Cubs made the WS 4 years out of 5. After that, you have to go all the way to 2007 before the Cubs have back-to-back post-season teams. From 2015-2020, the Cubs had 5 playoff appearances in 6 years with a ring and 3 trips to the NLCS. It didn’t turn out to be all we could have hoped for, but I’m hard-pressed to call it a massive disappointment.

Winning is hard. Winning consistently is very hard. Consistently winning championships is next to impossible. Look at the Dodgers - they spend money and have a model player development system. They’ve made 9 straight playoff appearances and from there, have 6 NLCS appearances with 3 WS appearances and they’ve won 1 championship in 30 years.

I won’t argue with anyone who says the Cubs could/should have been better, especially the last 3-4 years, but I will argue with anyone who thinks winning is easy, especially when championships become the bar.

 

[TheCainer]

View embedded media

One of the best baseball games of all time for pure entertainment, regardless of who one might have been cheering for.

 

[noleclone2]

Would you really call Boston since 2004 a “dynasty”? I wouldn’t. They have won 4 championships over 17 season, which is impressive, but an actual dynasty was not going to happen in this era, not when the Dodgers, Astros and Rays are development machines and the Dodgers, Yankees and Red Sox continue to spend massive amounts of money. Winning is hard. There are just too many good teams at the top to have expectations of winning at dynasty levels.

What the Cubs did since 2015 was unprecedented in franchise history. From 1906-1910, the Cubs made the WS 4 years out of 5. After that, you have to go all the way to 2007 before the Cubs have back-to-back post-season teams. From 2015-2020, the Cubs had 5 playoff appearances in 6 years with a ring and 3 trips to the NLCS. It didn’t turn out to be all we could have hoped for, but I’m hard-pressed to call it a massive disappointment.

Winning is hard. Winning consistently is very hard. Consistently winning championships is next to impossible. Look at the Dodgers - they spend money and have a model player development system. They’ve made 9 straight playoff appearances and from there, have 6 NLCS appearances with 3 WS appearances and they’ve won 1 championship in 30 years.

I won’t argue with anyone who says the Cubs could/should have been better, especially the last 3-4 years, but I will argue with anyone who thinks winning is easy, especially when championships become the bar.

I don’t know, I think if the average cubs fan was to look back in 2033 and we had won 4 World Series and gone to 10 post seasons and all the while the Cardinals had mostly sucked, we would consider that a more dynasty type run that began when we broke the curse.

 

[hawkifann]

I don’t know, I think if the average cubs fan was to look back in 2033 and we had won 4 World Series and gone to 10 post seasons and all the while the Cardinals had mostly sucked, we would consider that a more dynasty type run that began when we broke the curse.

I still wouldn’t call this a dynasty (think late 90s/early 2000s Yankees), but if we do, let’s at least compare apples to apples - the Red Sox have 3 rings after breaking the curse, one 3 years after, one 9 years after and one 14 years later.

It’s been 5 years since the Cubs broke the curse. In that span, they had 1 NLCS appearances and 3 playoff appearances. In the same span, Boston did win another ring with 4 playoff appearances. After that 5th year, the Red Sox then missed the playoffs 4 of the next 5 years. Hopefully the Cubs can do as well or better.

 

[hawkifann]

I don’t know, I think if the average cubs fan was to look back in 2033 and we had won 4 World Series and gone to 10 post seasons and all the while the Cardinals had mostly sucked, we would consider that a more dynasty type run that began when we broke the curse.

Also, would you look at it differently if the Cardinals didn’t “mostly suck”? It seems you’re inferring that the Yankees have “mostly sucked”, but they haven’t….and the Rays have really gained significantly.

I have a hard time basing my feelings about the Cubs on anything the Cardinals do outside of head-to-head play, as the Cubs front office can’t control whether the Cardinals are developing talent or making good baseball decisions.

 

[Herky T Hawk]

Would you really call Boston since 2004 a “dynasty”? I wouldn’t. They have won 4 championships over 17 season, which is impressive, but an actual dynasty was not going to happen in this era, not when the Dodgers, Astros and Rays are development machines and the Dodgers, Yankees and Red Sox continue to spend massive amounts of money. Winning is hard. There are just too many good teams at the top to have expectations of winning at dynasty levels.

What the Cubs did since 2015 was unprecedented in franchise history. From 1906-1910, the Cubs made the WS 4 years out of 5. After that, you have to go all the way to 2007 before the Cubs have back-to-back post-season teams. From 2015-2020, the Cubs had 5 playoff appearances in 6 years with a ring and 3 trips to the NLCS. It didn’t turn out to be all we could have hoped for, but I’m hard-pressed to call it a massive disappointment.

Winning is hard. Winning consistently is very hard. Consistently winning championships is next to impossible. Look at the Dodgers - they spend money and have a model player development system. They’ve made 9 straight playoff appearances and from there, have 6 NLCS appearances with 3 WS appearances and they’ve won 1 championship in 30 years.

I won’t argue with anyone who says the Cubs could/should have been better, especially the last 3-4 years, but I will argue with anyone who thinks winning is easy, especially when championships become the bar.

I think the reason the disappointment is there is the way the last three playoff "runs" ended for the Cubs. 2017, 8 total runs scored in 5 mostly blowout NLCS games against the Dodgers, 25 runs total in 10 games for the entire postseason(which is skewed by having 9 runs scored in the NLDS game 5 clincher). 2018, 1 run scored in the Wild Card loss. 2020, 1 total run scored in the two games that they lost. That is 27 total runs scored against 57 runs given up in 12 games for an average score of 4.75 - 2.25 per game. In the latter two seasons they had good records, but were barely existent in the playoffs. For a team with a lot of supposed offensive firepower in Bryant, Rizzo, Schwarber, and Baez, they didn't score many runs in the playoffs.

If they had won at least one more NLCS, even if they lost the series in the extra appearance, I think people would look back and say it wasn't a disappointment. Yes, everyone wishes to win a title every year, but most of us know that isn't going to happen. It is just too bad that the Dodgers managed to get their crap together in the playoffs right at the same time that the Cubs did. Although I don't think the 2017 Cubs beat the Astros in the series.

But if you think about it, after the 1945 World Series loss, the Cubs only won 9 postseason games total before the Joe Madden run began. Since 2015 they have won 19 postseason games, albeit with more opportunities since there was no permanent NLCS before 1969, no permanent NLDS before 1995, and no NLWC until 2012. So that run is epic considering the team's history. Under the old school rules, the Cubs would have made the World Series in 1984, 1989, 2008, and 2016 as they had the best record in the NL those years, meaning this run would have only ended up in the postseason once.

 

[hawkifann]

I think the reason the disappointment is there is the way the last three playoff "runs" ended for the Cubs. 2017, 8 total runs scored in 5 mostly blowout NLCS games against the Dodgers, 25 runs total in 10 games for the entire postseason(which is skewed by having 9 runs scored in the NLDS game 5 clincher). 2018, 1 run scored in the Wild Card loss. 2020, 1 total run scored in the two games that they lost. That is 27 total runs scored against 57 runs given up in 12 games for an average score of 4.75 - 2.25 per game. In the latter two seasons they had good records, but were barely existent in the playoffs. For a team with a lot of supposed offensive firepower in Bryant, Rizzo, Schwarber, and Baez, they didn't score many runs in the playoffs.

If they had won at least one more NLCS, even if they lost the series in the extra appearance, I think people would look back and say it wasn't a disappointment. Yes, everyone wishes to win a title every year, but most of us know that isn't going to happen. It is just too bad that the Dodgers managed to get their crap together in the playoffs right at the same time that the Cubs did. Although I don't think the 2017 Cubs beat the Astros in the series.

But if you think about it, after the 1945 World Series loss, the Cubs only won 9 postseason games total before the Joe Madden run began. Since 2015 they have won 19 postseason games, albeit with more opportunities since there was no permanent NLCS before 1969, no permanent NLDS before 1995, and no NLWC until 2012. So that run is epic considering the team's history. Under the old school rules, the Cubs would have made the World Series in 1984, 1989, 2008, and 2016 as they had the best record in the NL those years, meaning this run would have only ended up in the postseason once.

I don’t disagree with any of this.

More than anything else, I’m just trying to push the message that winning is hard and that we should always take the time to savor the moments we do get on top. I think most of us did in 2016 because the Cubs went places we had not seen in our lifetimes.

 

[HawkRugged17]

 

[SCHawkFan]

Of all the former Cubs on playoff or playoff contending teams this year who had Jorge Soler as their most likely to be World Series MVP in August? I am happy for him and the home run he hit tonight was a BOMB.

 

[hawkifann]

Of all the former Cubs on playoff or playoff contending teams this year who had Jorge Soler as their most likely to be World Series MVP in August? I am happy for him and the home run he hit tonight was a BOMB.

I have no bad feelings whatsoever about Jorge Soler - and also no bad feelings about that trade. At the time, the Cubs really didn’t have a clear spot for him and he was on and off the DL with leg injuries. He always had massive offensive/power potential, but was a great trade candidate - and to that end, they got the guy who really held the pitching staff together in 2017 and was the best closer, probably in all of baseball that year. It took Soler 2+ years to really contribute. I’m happy he’s found his way in the bigs.