Defensive Rebounding: Iowa ranks 13th in B1G & 221 Nationally, getting just 69% of def rebounds

[Franisdaman]

We definitely did lose game number 1 partly because of offense: We had 17 points in the first half. Adding onto the futile 17 points was the constant turnovers that led to easy scores for the opposing teams.

Fran IS obviously an offense-first coach. And we run some pretty dang good stuff on the offensive end. The offense scoring also allows us to press as well as switch defenses from man to zone; they are not two separate parts like football; they work hand and hand very often.

Totally agree we lost game 1 with bad offense. Its hard to overcome a 17 point first half.

And I agree, too, on the offense being good most of the time. And heck, his out of bounds plays are terrific.

But I ask you this: when the offense is not clicking, shouldn't BOTH strong defense and strong rebounding be a given? When we lost to ULL, the offense was terrible, but did you go away saying, "well at least we played amazing defense and we rebounded well?"

 

[hawki1968]

Totally agree we lost game 1 with bad offense. Its hard to overcome a 17 point first half.

And I agree, too, on the offense being good most of the time. And heck, his out of bounds plays are terrific.

But I ask you this: when the offense is not clicking, shouldn't BOTH strong defense and strong rebounding be a given? When we lost to ULL, the offense was terrible, but did you go away saying, "well at least we played amazing defense and we rebounded well?"

It depends on what you consider a given. Mike D’Antoni is a great offensive coach; he at times has been considered an awful defensive coach.

As a former coach myself, I always found one of the most difficult tasks in basketball to play fast, stress fast break basketball, and still grind on defense. The easier way to get kids to defend was to hold the ball on offense, lengthen possessions, value the ball, and then grind on defense.

I watched the Butler vs Texas game. That game was a slog. The possessions were so labored and slow that neither team produced much in the way of tempo or rhythm. When the speed went up in the second half, shots started to fall.

So what am I writing? It is easy to say you want to have “fast break basketball,” but is HARD to execute in a way that produces wins, produces defensive fortitude, and a fighter’s mentality.

There are a lot more teams that play closer to Wisconsin in style than Iowa. This may not be obvious because often the most athletic teams play a faster North Carolina style. Iowa tries to do it with athletes that most programs would consider mediocre.

Do some coaches perfect that balance between great offense and great defense? Yes. I think Fran is a good coach. I don’t think he is a great coach. Could we possibly land a better coach? Yes, probably. Is it likely? Absolutely not. Out of the coaches hired at the same time as Fran only Hoiberg (ironically) had enjoyed more success. Most of those hires with Fran have since been fired.

Do I wish we rebounded better? Absolutely. Do I wish we defended better? Absolutely. Do I wish we were not sometimes soft as toilet paper? Of course.

It is simplistic, however, to think Fran is missing some easy to solve piece of the equation that all other coaches have solved. We do some things really, really well, including sharing the ball, scoring the ball, running sets, running motion, and running the fast break. If Fran takes his eye off of those strengths to devote more time to weaknesses, he could have a strength TURN in to a weakness.

It is any coach’s job to balance what is emphasized without losing the identity upon which your teams foundation is built. And it is a tough thing to perfect.

 

[nu2u]

Since no one has mentioned it yet, it kind of makes you appreciate Adam Woodbury a little bit more in retrospect. Anyone remember that former whipping boy?

BTW, I believe Garza is in his league when it comes to rebounding. Another poster equated rebounding with effort. There's your effort guy.

Besides effort, some players have the knack of anticipation or sensing where to position for a rebound. That's Nicholas Baer's forte. Instant improvement when he returns.

Every once in a while a player gives sustained unrelenting effort and has a knack for position. That player was Ryan Bowen.

 

[Hawksfor3]

It is any coach’s job to balance what is emphasized without losing the identity upon witch your teams foundation is built. And it is a tough thing to perfect.

I agree, but where do you start? With the fundamentals? Blocking out, fundamental on-man defense and footwork, rebounding, and movement? Or, do you try to get folks on the same page?

Frequently, I hear Fran say something like "He's figuring it out". Is he talking about the team's "system" or is he talking about a role? I believe that as a team, they will be as one unit going forward.

 

[Franisdaman]

Chad Leistikow of the Des Moines Register/Iowa City Press Citizen said this on Wednesday's HawkCentral KXNO radio show:

"My early reaction on this team right now is that they are not playing defense again and that's a really big concern."

They start talking Iowa basketball at the 20:40 mark.

Link to the podcast: https://t.co/oeuS3jBYwK

 

[Franisdaman]

I agree, but where do you start? With the fundamentals? Blocking out, fundamental on-man defense and footwork, rebounding, and movement? Or, do you try to get folks on the same page?

Frequently, I hear Fran say something like "He's figuring it out". Is he talking about the team's "system" or is he talking about a role? I believe that as a team, they will be as one unit going forward.

what's sad to me? Isn't blocking out taught in 7th grade?

 

[TKingpin]

It is time, for the 2nd year in a row to give props to Adam Woodbury and we really miss his interior defense. I lamented his offensive ineffectiveness many times, but it is now evident that he was a rim protector that we sorely need right now.

For those who give Davis the credit for the amazing rebounding margin, please remember it was George Raveling who should get the most credit. He drilled all of those players in rebounding. He wrote, “War on the boards.” And was generally given credit for the recruitment and development of that ‘85-‘86 team. His downfall was game day coaching.

If only we could have had a Dream Team of Davis as head coach as the architect of the offense and full court trap, with Raveling as the assistant head coach and recruiter ... that would have been a championship combo.

Raveling’s gameday coaching was abysmal. So bad, that he got fired even though he had BJ, Horton, Marble and Lohaus on that team. Davis came in with Ravelings recruits and went 30-5, IIRC.

 

[Legend12]

It is time, for the 2nd year in a row to give props to Adam Woodbury and we really miss his interior defense. I lamented his offensive ineffectiveness many times, but it is now evident that he was a rim protector that we sorely need right now.

For those who give Davis the credit for the amazing rebounding margin, please remember it was George Raveling who should get the most credit. He drilled all of those players in rebounding. He wrote, “War on the boards.” And was generally given credit for the recruitment and development of that ‘85-‘86 team. His downfall was game day coaching.

If only we could have had a Dream Team of Davis as head coach as the architect of the offense and full court trap, with Raveling as the assistant head coach and recruiter ... that would have been a championship combo.

Raveling’s gameday coaching was abysmal. So bad, that he got fired even though he had BJ, Horton, Marble and Lohaus on that team. Davis came in with Ravelings recruits and went 30-5, IIRC.

Raveling was NOT fired

 

[hawki1968]

I have started watching the South Dakota State game.

On the rewatch Iowa is currently down 30-23. It is amazing to me how on a second watch I realize that the defense is not as bad as I thought; we are just AWFUL at closing possessions.

Examples:

Iowa comes out of a TO and goes 1-3-1. SDS does not know what to do. Their PG drives, throws up a wild shot, and GETS HIS OWN REBOUND that he promptly lays in. This is a common theme in the 1-3-1: Force the other team into an awful shot and the fail to secure the rebound.

Iowa in man to man. Good defense. Stay at home through all of SDS’s false motion weave crap, force a tough shot...and JBO always the PG to run unabated to the rim for a 1 hand back dunk.

(Other random notes:
Moss is AWFUL in this game so far. He shoots it, but make poor decisions in transition and the ball always sticks. Poor shot selection and poor transition decisions are leading to easy scores for SDS going back the other way.
JBO has not shot the ball so far this game. Having Connor back will hopefully allow Iowa to run more stuff for him; I love getting the posts involved, but JBO is floating and (rightly or wrongly) it affects his defense and rebounding. Our starting backcourt is a huge minus so far in my viewing of this game.)

 

[twindman]

I watched the last game on replay since I didn't pay to watch live. I think the players MAY actually be beginning to see the light. Several plays when a player was 'helping' up high on the wing, I saw him turn and look at a man in the corner and realize he could NOT just leave an open man. Sometimes it was maybe a split second late or they didn't quite get close enough to the end line and the opponent squeezed by to the basket, but our guys at least realized they need to cover the open man.
So we can hope things get better in this area.

 

[hawki1968]

Moving in to the second half of the SDS game. 14 minutes left and Iowa trailing 46-49.

Iowa has allowed a put back jam, but I am seeing the first major breakdowns in Iowa’s defense versus screen and roll action.

Twice SDS has begun their offense a D’Antoni ball screen ( where the offensive player basically rams into the back of the offensive player—could be called an illegal screen every time); the first time the SDS Pg scored on an uncontested lay up after Cook failed to show; the second SDS scored a three after Garza showed late and Moss decided to help off the corner three (for no real reason).

Then SDS scores another 3 against the pick and roll by engaging both our bigs—Garza and Luka— No show again and their best three pointer gets a WIDE open three.

Then another 3 where Kreiner barely shows and SDS scored again.

Net result is 11 points against the pick and roll over the course of those four possessions.

 

[TKingpin]

Raveling was NOT fired

I stand corrected on 2 fronts, having gone back and looked.

1) Raveling wasn’t fired. He chose to resign and take an opportunity at a lesser program even though he had BJ, Marble, Horton, Gamble, Lohaus and Jeff Moe returning from a 20-12 team that lost to NC State in the first round of the NCAA tournament. Presumably to get back to the west coast.

2) the awesome team, coached by Davis to a 30-5 record was the ‘86 - ‘87 team, not ‘85-‘86.

 

[hawki1968]

Last post on the SDS rewatch:

There is a 8 minutes left and Iowa now trails by 8. Both in the first half and the second half Iowa has gone with an all bench team that has been thoroughly whipped and has transferred all the momentum to SDS.

Iowa’s bench might be decent on defense if I ever saw them set up: they turn the ball over every possession.

The announcer has just mentioned the huge disparity in points off of turnovers and points off of second chance.

Final analysis after watching the past two games for a second time: While our defense is not good, our failure to value the basketball, and our failure to rebound to close possessions, and our failure of our bench to provide anything, are problems just as noticeable.

(It might be fair to think JBO should be playing 38 minutes with quick substitutions right before media timeouts. It might be also fair to suggest that either Cook or JBO should be on the court at all times.)

 

[Rudolph]

It’s difficult to rebound out of a zone. Our defense won’t be good this year so we’ll have to do a pick your poison when it comes to zone or man.

The common refrain… if a zone communicates properly, when a perimeter shot is released, the zone at that moment is effectively a man-to-man with man-to-man rebounding principles.

If the shot comes from the paint via dribble-drive, defensive rebounding is stressed the most, but this is true regardless of the type of defense.

 

[RocknRollface]

It is time, for the 2nd year in a row to give props to Adam Woodbury and we really miss his interior defense. I lamented his offensive ineffectiveness many times, but it is now evident that he was a rim protector that we sorely need right now.

For those who give Davis the credit for the amazing rebounding margin, please remember it was George Raveling who should get the most credit. He drilled all of those players in rebounding. He wrote, “War on the boards.” And was generally given credit for the recruitment and development of that ‘85-‘86 team. His downfall was game day coaching.

If only we could have had a Dream Team of Davis as head coach as the architect of the offense and full court trap, with Raveling as the assistant head coach and recruiter ... that would have been a championship combo.

Raveling’s gameday coaching was abysmal. So bad, that he got fired even though he had BJ, Horton, Marble and Lohaus on that team. Davis came in with Ravelings recruits and went 30-5, IIRC.

Its funny how everyone said we needed a "rim protector" when Woodbury was here. I tried to explain to them how good at defending the lane he was but allot of people just dont understand what they are watching.

Also Davis was the coach untill 98 and his teams were always great at rebounding.

Raveling had nothing to do with Street, Earl, Winters, Lookingbill, Settles, Millard, Daryl Moore, ect.

 

[Hawksfor3]

It is time, for the 2nd year in a row to give props to Adam Woodbury and we really miss his interior defense. I lamented his offensive ineffectiveness many times, but it is now evident that he was a rim protector that we sorely need right now.

For those who give Davis the credit for the amazing rebounding margin, please remember it was George Raveling who should get the most credit. He drilled all of those players in rebounding. He wrote, “War on the boards.” And was generally given credit for the recruitment and development of that ‘85-‘86 team. His downfall was game day coaching.

If only we could have had a Dream Team of Davis as head coach as the architect of the offense and full court trap, with Raveling as the assistant head coach and recruiter ... that would have been a championship combo.

Raveling’s gameday coaching was abysmal. So bad, that he got fired even though he had BJ, Horton, Marble and Lohaus on that team. Davis came in with Ravelings recruits and went 30-5, IIRC.

In his own words.

 

[Franisdaman]

Look at the Caymen Island games. ULL had as many rebounds as Iowa; we had just a +3 advantage vs S Dak State; we got outrebounded by 6 by UAB.

I guess the honest question is this: should we be dominating the boards vs the teams we played in the Caymens? If the answer is "yes," why aren't we?

Note from the stats that follow, when the opponent shoots the ball and MISSES, Iowa has a 67.8% chance of getting the rebound, which ranks 12th out of the 14 B1G teams to date.


Opponent...Iowa Def .....Opponent .....%age of Rebs....Reb
........................Rebs..........Off Reb............Iowa Got....Margin
Chi State.............28..................15...................65.1%..........+5
AL State..............31..................15...................67.4%........+15
Gramb St.............26..................13..................66.7%..........+9
UL Laf..................26..................10..................72.2%............0
S Dak St..............26..................10...................72.2%.........+3
UAB.....................25..................14...................64.1%..........-6
___________________________________________________________
TOTALS............162................77.................67.8%.......+4.3

 

[DodgerHawki]

Look at the Caymen Island games. ULL had as many rebounds as Iowa; we had just a +3 advantage vs S Dak State; we got outrebounded by 6 by UAB.

I guess the honest question is this: should we be dominating the boards vs the teams we played in the Caymens? If the answer is "yes," why aren't we?

Note from the stats that follow, when the opponent shoots the ball and MISSES, Iowa has a 67.8% chance of getting the rebound, which ranks 12th out of the 14 B1G teams to date.


Opponent...Iowa Def .....Opponent .....%age of Rebs....Reb
........................Rebs..........Off Reb............Iowa Got....Margin
Chi State.............28..................15...................65.1%..........+5
AL State..............31..................15...................67.4%........+15
Gramb St.............26..................13..................66.7%..........+9
UL Laf..................26..................10..................72.2%............0
S Dak St..............26..................10...................72.2%.........+3
UAB.....................25..................14...................64.1%..........-6
___________________________________________________________
TOTALS............162................77.................67.8%.......+4.3

Don't look at total rebounds. Rebound margin tells a story, just not a complete one. Kind of like looking at total points to determine how good or bad an offense or defense is. The more possessions, the higher the score for both teams.

Iowa is not a good rebounding team, based on the % of opponents misses Iowa is rebounding, and the % of its own misses Iowa is getting.

 

[Franisdaman]

Don't look at total rebounds. Rebound margin tells a story, just not a complete one. Kind of like looking at total points to determine how good or bad an offense or defense is. The more possessions, the higher the score for both teams.

Iowa is not a good rebounding team, based on the % of opponents misses Iowa is rebounding, and the % of its own misses Iowa is getting.

The reason I added rebounding margin is this:

The 1986-87 Iowa team that made the Elite 8 led the nation in rebounding margin at 12.6.

This team is no where close to that type of rebounding effort.

 

[Franisdaman]

Please check out this site: http://www.bigten.org/library/stats/mbb-confldrs.html

Iowa ranks 9th of the 14 B1G teams with a +4.3 Rebounding margin. Remember when the Tom Davis teams led THE NATION in rebounding margin?

This year's Iowa team, however, is ranked #108 in rebounding margin. Source: http://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/team/151/p3

In comparison, The 1986-87 Iowa team that made the Elite 8 led the nation in rebounding margin at 12.6.

Please look at the "Defensive Rebound Percent" category. Iowa ranks 13th in the B1G, getting just 69% of defensive rebounds.

Check out this link, which shows TWENTY YEARS of rankings for defensive rebounding percentages. As you can see, our ranking this year is 221.

The Link: https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/stat/defensive-rebounding-pct

Here is the ugly break down for this year:

What we are looking at: when the opponent shoots the ball and MISSES, Iowa has a 69% chance of getting the rebound, which ranks 13th out of the 14 B1G teams to date.

..................................................................................Shot
..........Iowa Def ..Opponent ..%age of Rebs....Reb...Attempt
.................Rebs...Off Reb........Iowa Got......Margin..Margin
Chi State.....28..........15...............65.1%............+5...........-9
AL State......31..........15...............67.4%..........+15..........+4
Gramb St....26..........13..............66.7%............+9...........-22
UL Laf.........26..........10..............72.2%..............0..............-1
S Dak St.....26..........10...............72.2%...........+3.............-6
UAB............25..........14...............64.1%............-6............-19
Va Tech.... ..29..........09...............76.3%............+4............+8
___________________________________________________________
TOTALS...191..........86..............69.0%.......+4.3.........-6.4