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Democrats target cigarettes and vaping as potential sources to pay for $3.5 trillion economic package

Tax the fat. Not foods you deem unhealthy.

couple handfuls of almonds or cashews has more calories than a candy bar.
 
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ihhawk said:
I personally believe we will see two new taxes in the next few years.
1. A national gas tax charge of $50 cents a gallon to fund carbon reduction. Could be higher even.

2. A national sales tax of 1%
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I have trouble seeing either side presenting those taxes.
The gas and sales tax are regressive which would be counter to what Democrats have always pushed, but much harder lately as it is counter to the "tax the wealthy " mantra.

If the Republicans gain control I don't see a shift in tax approach, their attempt would be more reduction to let market work approach, similar to what Trump's tax cuts tried to accomplish.

Could be wrong, just don't see either of those happening at a federal level based on current ideologies.
 
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Aren't smokers disproportionately in lower economic classes?

Dems are used to bossing these people around anyway, I guess.
 
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cigaretteman said:
Millions of Americans who smoke could soon see an increase in their prices, as Democrats target tobacco and nicotine to help finance their $3.5 trillion economic package.
The new proposal put forward in the House this week would raise or impose taxes on a wide array of products: It would hike existing federal levies on cigarettes and cigars while introducing new taxes on vaping. Democrats say the changes could help them raise $100 billion in revenue over the next 10 years.

Health experts and activists have heralded Democrats’ efforts, arguing that higher taxes on tobacco could help crack down on a dangerous, deadly habit among a nation of roughly 34 million cigarette smokers. The Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids this week estimated the increases could reduce the total number of smokers by 1.1 million in the first year after the law is adopted, while deterring over half-a-million kids from becoming addicted.



But the ideas still have brought fresh criticism, particularly from Republicans, who also oppose the broader thrust of President Biden’s economic agenda. Tobacco excise taxes are assessed on companies, which generally pass the expenses to consumers in the form of price increases. To GOP lawmakers, the higher taxes put Democrats at risk of violating Biden’s promise during the 2020 campaign not to raise rates on Americans who make less than $400,000 each year.
Democrats sorting through painful sacrifices as social bill enters final stretch
The heaviest users of cigarettes and other tobacco products tend to be middle-income or lower-income Americans, federal data shows. As many as 80 percent of smokers have incomes less than $200,000 annually, according to data presented to the House Ways and Means Committee, the tax-focused panel that debated the idea on Tuesday. Other federal data shows that the greatest number of smokers are those who make at or below poverty-level wages.
But Democrats have argued their efforts do not violate Biden’s pledge. A White House official, speaking on condition of anonymity to describe the administration’s thinking, said smoking is not a required cost for working families and the introduction of higher taxes would not directly affect their incomes. The aide also highlighted the public health imperative behind the idea, given the well-known dangers of a practice they are trying to discourage.



Asked if the new proposal runs afoul of the president's past promise, Howard Gleckman, a senior fellow at the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, responded: “Absolutely, no question.”
But, he cautioned, it does not mean it is bad policy. “It clearly is a tax increase, and it clearly has benefits,” Gleckman said.
For now, the mere proposal itself reflects the all-out scramble on Capitol Hill as Democrats scrounge for any money they can find to cover the costs of their new spending ambitions. At no point this year had Biden or his congressional allies publicly embraced higher tobacco taxes, even as they pursued new spending to rethink federal health care, education and safety-net programs.

Democrats hope to raise most of the required revenue from a slew of additional tax increases, including higher rates on wealthy Americans, profitable corporations and investors. The party’s House lawmakers have debated the ideas in recent days as they race to complete work on their sprawling $3.5 trillion package by Wednesday.


The little-noticed tobacco taxes aroused discussion a day before that deadline, as the House Ways and Means Committee continued its marathon stretch of legislative sessions to write the fuller bill. The proposal put forward by the panel’s chairman, Rep. Richard E. Neal (D-Mass.), aims to increase rates using a complicated set of calculations based on the type of tobacco product, its sale weight or total nicotine content.
For cigarettes in particular, the tax increases could ultimately result in smokers paying about $1 more per pack, according to Ulrik Boesen, a senior policy analyst tracking excise taxes for the Tax Foundation. He said it is harder to track the exact effect on vaping since it may vary considerably based on a company’s products, their potency and how it chooses to pass any added expense onto purchasers.

For some Americans, though, the added expenses could total hundreds of dollars annually. Boesen said that could fall hardest on Americans at the lower end of the economic spectrum, pointing to data compiled by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that indicates that 1 in 5 adults making less than $35,000 a year are smokers.






The U.S. government last raised federal excise rates on tobacco in 2009, though state legislators in the meantime have layered on their own additional taxes targeting these products. Matthew Myers, the president of the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids, said the increases historically have served their intended purposes, deterring people from smoking while reducing health care costs.
The group said this week that Democrats’ plan also could make a marked difference at a time when e-cigarettes, which are untaxed at the federal level, are increasingly on the rise among millions of younger Americans — so the new taxes could further deter their use as well. The Food and Drug Administration recently cracked down on the industry as it continues to review whether one company, Juul Labs, can sell its products in the United States.

The tobacco tax hike belongs to an even wider array of potential increases in Democrats’ broader $3.5 trillion plan that seek to incentivize or discourage behavior. The still-forming spending bill uses a mix of tax credits and payments to try to reduce carbon emissions, for example, and to keep companies from offshoring jobs and profits. And it similarly dangles tax breaks in front of Americans who purchase new or used vehicles and bicycles that are energy-efficient and environmentally friendly.


But the tobacco tax still seemed to conflict with the president’s pledge, even as its foremost supporters said it should not matter given its long-term benefits. That prompted Republicans to tee off on the idea Tuesday. Rep. Drew Ferguson (R-Ga.), a member of the Ways and Means Committee, at one point faulted Democrats for striking the wrong balance — seeking tax increases on tobacco that could hurt lower-income Americans, while supporting tax breaks for wealthier families who can buy electric cars.
“We’ve got folks making less [and] paying more taxes, and folks making a lot are getting a tax break,” he said.

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Bad move.

Stick to taxes on the rich and a carbon tax.

Those are where the battle needs to be won.
 
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Why smoking is even still legal in this country is beyond me. Is there a more disgusting thing than being around the stench of a smoker?
 
Brutal tax increases on small businesses making over 400k per year. Between Covid lockdowns and Bidens tax plans Democrats are doing all they can to kill mainstreet and small businesses.
 
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Only taxing the wealthy can save us from the white supremacy, Covid, climate, existential threat we face today!!!!! Taxes!!!!!!!!!!!! Let’s all move to the great state of Taxes!!!
 
Let’s start taxing each letter of each text and tweet we send. We all know how many kids get in accidents and die everyday from cell phone use while driving.
 
Cool with me. I also think they should legalize marijuana and tax that too. And hefty fines for anyone smoking it where it is not allowed. Hell get to work making the best marijuana that other countries want the U.S. marijuana and export it also.
 
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West Duval Nole said:
It isn't just kids and many states already do have laws that result in fines for texting and driving.
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It’s obviously not enough, people are texting and driving and lives are being lost! Tax every letter of every text. We MUST be punished. Nothing feels better than a government spanking!
 
KFsdisciple said:
It’s obviously not enough, people are texting and driving and lives are being lost! Tax every letter of every text. We MUST be punished. Nothing feels better than a government spanking!
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meh just force the cell phone carriers and manufacturers to not allow the devices to allow texts when it is moving. And anyone caught tampering to allow it gets life in prison or the death penalty.
 
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West Duval Nole said:
meh just force the cell phone carriers and manufacturers to not allow the devices to allow texts when it is moving. And anyone caught tampering to allow it gets life in prison or the death penalty.
Click to expand...
When taxes don't work, we can just trim a little more fat off the constitution... more taxes and more laws are ALWAYS the answer. We make a pretty good team!
 
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Joes Place said:
Cigs and Ecigs pay enough.

Put a wealth tax together. Amend inheritance taxes to cap the untaxed at $500k. Make that inheritance tax regressive in $500k increments, so that it becomes substantial at >$2M or something.

Tax the shit out of stock buybacks and tax dividends for folks earning >$150k at income-tax rates; everyone else gets much lower cap gains rates.
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For the majority of inheritance I feel like a lot of it is double taxation. I hate it. Unless it's unrealized capital gains or something similar most of what folks get in inheritance has already been taxed once. Yuck.
 
WisestIowan said:
Admittedly, I have never had to deal with inheritance (yet) but if they're taxing real estate and DDA/SAV accounts it could be double taxation regardless of $ limits.
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How are they "double taxing" real estate, when it transfers w/o inheritance taxes up to a rather significant cap? You aren't paying the cap gains on it, you're paying the inheritance.
 
Joes Place said:
How are they "double taxing" real estate, when it transfers w/o inheritance taxes up to a rather significant cap? You aren't paying the cap gains on it, you're paying the inheritance.
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If it transfers without tax then that's fine. Why is there a cap? Greed? Someone paid taxes on it when it was purchased/built. You're not buying it again... If a property is with $5million vs $50k what's the difference?
 
Redefine just exactly what a “non-profit” is! The American tax code is being scammed major league by so many “religious” scams and churches...the same with charitable non-profits...
The evangelical right will scream the loudest and the most when this day ever comes...but some mainline churches and hospitals will feel the wrath of the IRS too.,
 
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