Department of Education denies Iowa City school district request to start with online-only learning

[Rifler]

Then what's the point of having it physically at all then? To me, you either have to go all on campus or go all online. The hybrid approach seems like it will lead to neither method being done well.

The physical experience reinforces the online experience, because by themselves, online classes won't succeed,... I also think that the hybrid approach does the best job of ensuring that we have the necessary systems in place to allow the school to adjust to the changing reality as the year progresses...

 

[Titanhawk2]

It's not the gov's mandate, it's the state's law

 

[Rifler]

There are logistics and liability considerations of which the general public is not necessarily aware. Parents thoughts are valuable, but if all decisions made by school boards were based on the popular opinions of parents it would be a disaster.

So who's thoughts and opinions do school boards base their decisions on?,... hilarious.

 

[gohawks50]

So who's thoughts and opinions do school boards base their decisions on?,... hilarious.

A combination of parents, educators, and lawyers.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Well, for one, with only half the students coming to class on any one day, the amount of students bussing should likewise be cut in half; at the very least students should wipe down their desk area before or after class; tho less so at the elementary level where they usually have the same classroom/teacher the bulk of the day.

Students - at least in NC - are not allowed to use any kind of chemical substance to wipe down surfaces. Strictly forbidden due to liability concerns. They would have to use water only. And I'm thinking busing might be unaffected. The same number of buses running the same basic routes but at half capacity each day to allow for distancing - which may be what you meant.

When they modeled a hybrid schedule here, they needed more buses per day or more runs per bus because elementary buses can run three kids to a seat...even at half capacity they couldn't distance adequately.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

The physical experience reinforces the online experience, because by themselves, online classes won't succeed.

You're aware, I'm sure that a large percentage of home-schooled students get their instruction from online resources. Are you advocating to outlaw the home-school movement because it "won't succeed"?

 

[sober_teacher]

Students - at least in NC - are not allowed to use any kind of chemical substance to wipe down surfaces. Strictly forbidden due to liability concerns. They would have to use water only. And I'm thinking busing might be unaffected. The same number of buses running the same basic routes but at half capacity each day to allow for distancing - which may be what you meant.

When they modeled a hybrid schedule here, they needed more buses per day or more runs per bus because elementary buses can run three kids to a seat...even at half capacity they couldn't distance adequately.

I was thinking something as simple as cleaning wipes, in those taller bins or something like that. Didn't realize NC had banned chemicals for students, no idea if Iowa is similar or not. Even just using warm, soapy water would be better than nothing though.

I'm not clear on the bussing situation - wouldn't halving the number of students mean fewer students per bus? Depending on the bus route involved anyway.

 

[Rifler]

You're aware, I'm sure that a large percentage of home-schooled students get their instruction from online resources. Are you advocating to outlaw the home-school movement because it "won't succeed"?

Traditional home schooling is, on average, far superior the pitiful online only experience that a lot of kids will receive this year,.. but you already knew that.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Traditional home schooling is, on average, far superior the pitiful online only experience that a lot of kids will receive this year,.. but you already knew that.

LOL...explain how a child receiving a curriculum from a private vendor is getting a "far superior" experience to one receiving it from a public source.

This should be good.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

I was thinking something as simple as cleaning wipes, in those taller bins or something like that. Didn't realize NC had banned chemicals for students, no idea if Iowa is similar or not. Even just using warm, soapy water would be better than nothing though.

I'm not clear on the bussing situation - wouldn't halving the number of students mean fewer students per bus? Depending on the bus route involved anyway.

Believe it or not you have to make sure the soap is OSHA approved if you want to stay within regs. Teachers are also officially barred from furnishing their own cleaning supplies. It all has to come through maintenance with safety data sheets on file. And, yes, students are officially barred from using something like Clorox wipes. They do it anyway because teachers don't know or figure no one will find out but it can't be school policy. If there's a problem, the teacher would be liable along with the district.

As for busing, I first thought you were saying it might save money. Yes, it would reduce numbers but it can actually increase the need for more buses or more runs. A bus that would normally run full would run the same basic route but only pick up half the kids on a particular day. The logistics are daunting because you have to insure that half the kids on a particular route ride on A-Day while the other half ride on B-Day.

 

[globalhawk]

Just about all of the districts I'm aware of put out surveys to parents about their preference (in person vs online). I am not aware of a single district that has actually had a majority of parents/guardians wanting online over in person. Yet the districts are not even giving families the option to do 100% in person.

There’s probably not enough room to social distance with all students in school 100 percent of the time

 

[anon_89hvcc2uyzmki]

There’s probably not enough room to social distance with all students in school 100 percent of the time

That's why you give the option. And let the families decide. Based on most survey results I saw you'd probably have (across the board GENERALLY) about 60% of kids returning in person full time. You can make that work.

 

[anon_89hvcc2uyzmki]

Not only that but kids are not social distancing now. They haven't been. And they won't be. And they shouldn't be. Because the hard data shows that this virus is largely not being carried/transmitted by the youngest of our generations.

 

[globalhawk]

That's why you give the option. And let the families decide. Based on most survey results I saw you'd probably have (across the board GENERALLY) about 60% of kids returning in person full time. You can make that work.

I understand your point but if 100 percent in class isn’t REALLY an option than why the angst?

 

[sober_teacher]

Believe it or not you have to make sure the soap is OSHA approved if you want to stay within regs. Teachers are also officially barred from furnishing their own cleaning supplies. It all has to come through maintenance with safety data sheets on file. And, yes, students are officially barred from using something like Clorox wipes. They do it anyway because teachers don't know or figure no one will find out but it can't be school policy. If there's a problem, the teacher would be liable along with the district.

As for busing, I first thought you were saying it might save money. Yes, it would reduce numbers but it can actually increase the need for more buses or more runs. A bus that would normally run full would run the same basic route but only pick up half the kids on a particular day. The logistics are daunting because you have to insure that half the kids on a particular route ride on A-Day while the other half ride on B-Day.

Thanks for the info - I guess I'd always assumed all cleaning supplies provided by the school were OSHA approved.

As far as bussing logistics, that shouldn't be a problem, just get the Math Department on it

 

[sober_teacher]

Not only that but kids are not social distancing now. They haven't been. And they won't be. And they shouldn't be. Because the hard data shows that this virus is largely not being carried/transmitted by the youngest of our generations.

Not to the same numbers as older generations perhaps, but people under 18 can still carry/transmit the virus. Think of that school in GA that reopened and almost immediately had to quarantine an entire class because one student tested positive. Fortunately, comparatively very few youth cases of the virus have result in the death of a child.

But it's not just the kids we have to worry about. This gets pointed out often, but we always underestimate the number of adults who are present at schools on a daily basis, starting with teachers (a large % of which are older), administrative staff, support staff, parents, volunteers, etc. A relatively few students may have the virus in a school, but they will then have countless opportunities to spread the virus inadvertently.

I don't want schools to be online only, but particularly where states still have rising cases, we should be taking what precautions we can to reduce the spread of the disease until effective vaccines are available.

 

[anon_89hvcc2uyzmki]

I understand your point but if 100 percent in class isn’t REALLY an option than why the angst?

Because ultimately you are giving the ability to every family to make the choice that best suits them. At the end of the day it is what it is and time will tell but I strongly believe that the prolonged disruption to the normal societal way of life will be far more detrimental to the youth of our country than anything else.

 

[anon_89hvcc2uyzmki]

Not to the same numbers as older generations perhaps, but people under 18 can still carry/transmit the virus. Think of that school in GA that reopened and almost immediately had to quarantine an entire class because one student tested positive. Fortunately, comparatively very few youth cases of the virus have result in the death of a child.

But it's not just the kids we have to worry about. This gets pointed out often, but we always underestimate the number of adults who are present at schools on a daily basis, starting with teachers (a large % of which are older), administrative staff, support staff, parents, volunteers, etc. A relatively few students may have the virus in a school, but they will then have countless opportunities to spread the virus inadvertently.

I don't want schools to be online only, but particularly where states still have rising cases, we should be taking what precautions we can to reduce the spread of the disease until effective vaccines are available.

I completely understand but we are largely operating from a false premise. People assume they are in control of their fate. They are not. And they never will be. We have structured ways to try and reduce risk but not eliminate risk. You will have situations of kids that missed out on months or (potentially a year or more) of their life only to be diagnosed with terminal pediatric cancer and lose what days they otherwise would have had. We all only get today. For those that want to live for today with reasonable precautions in place I think it should be allowed.

 

[sober_teacher]

Because ultimately you are giving the ability to every family to make the choice that best suits them. At the end of the day it is what it is and time will tell but I strongly believe that the prolonged disruption to the normal societal way of life will be far more detrimental to the youth of our country than anything else.

I don't disagree, which is why I'm not in favor of going online-only. I think if all things were equal, most people would prefer schools to fully re-open, and if you left that decision solely up to the parents, most would choose that option, even if so many choose the in-school option that it defeats the purpose of trying to reduce the spread. That's why I think a hybrid-option is probably the best choice out of a bunch of bad options right now.

 

[sober_teacher]

I completely understand but we are largely operating from a false premise. People assume they are in control of their fate. They are not. And they never will be. We have structured ways to try and reduce risk but not eliminate risk. You will have situations of kids that missed out on months or (potentially a year or more) of their life only to be diagnosed with terminal pediatric cancer and lose what days they otherwise would have had. We all only get today. For those that want to live for today with reasonable precautions in place I think it should be allowed.

Question, do you think we should require students/teachers to wear masks (particularly at the middle/high school levels)? Especially in-between classes when the hallways would be the most crowded for example. If we could do that as well as socially distance I think schools would be able to operate somewhat normally. The trick of course is to manage that with 25+ kids per classrooms in most classes.

I don't disagree with where you're coming from, I'm just not sure reasonable precautions can be taken without making efforts to reduce the number of students in school on a given day, which is why many schools seem to be coming up with assorted versions of hybrid models, where students will alternate being in-school vs online learning. It's not ideal, and with any luck we can return to fully in-person sometime during the school year if we get a vaccine sooner rather than later (big IF I know).

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Thanks for the info - I guess I'd always assumed all cleaning supplies provided by the school were OSHA approved.

As far as bussing logistics, that shouldn't be a problem, just get the Math Department on it

Yeah...that's why they're required to come through maintenance and teachers are barred from furnishing their own. The story I've told here before is of the OSHA guy finding a big refill bottle of generic liquid soap under my sink and telling me it had to go. I asked about the soap ON the sink and he said it was ok. I said, "But it's the same stuff". He answered, "Maybe, but it's in a Dial bottle and that's approved".

 

[gohawks50]

Question, do you think we should require students/teachers to wear masks (particularly at the middle/high school levels)? Especially in-between classes when the hallways would be the most crowded for example. If we could do that as well as socially distance I think schools would be able to operate somewhat normally. The trick of course is to manage that with 25+ kids per classrooms in most classes.

I don't disagree with where you're coming from, I'm just not sure reasonable precautions can be taken without making efforts to reduce the number of students in school on a given day, which is why many schools seem to be coming up with assorted versions of hybrid models, where students will alternate being in-school vs online learning. It's not ideal, and with any luck we can return to fully in-person sometime during the school year if we get a vaccine sooner rather than later (big IF I know).

I just received an email from the school where I used to teach. They plan to open 100% on August 25th. It said masks would be required on buses, in hallways, and some classrooms where distancing is not possible. I'm curious as to how that will go over with parents considering it is a very Republican area. The husband of the teacher who filled my position when I retired said earlier this summer that his kids would not be wearing masks because he was teaching them about their freedoms. I know he is not alone in his beliefs within the school district.

 

[anon_89hvcc2uyzmki]

Question, do you think we should require students/teachers to wear masks (particularly at the middle/high school levels)? Especially in-between classes when the hallways would be the most crowded for example. If we could do that as well as socially distance I think schools would be able to operate somewhat normally. The trick of course is to manage that with 25+ kids per classrooms in most classes.

I don't disagree with where you're coming from, I'm just not sure reasonable precautions can be taken without making efforts to reduce the number of students in school on a given day, which is why many schools seem to be coming up with assorted versions of hybrid models, where students will alternate being in-school vs online learning. It's not ideal, and with any luck we can return to fully in-person sometime during the school year if we get a vaccine sooner rather than later (big IF I know).

I think that we should have a national mask mandate for 8 weeks solid. Do it. Commit to it. See what the #'s are at the end of 8 weeks. They will either significantly decrease to the point we can either get rid of them (in most settings) or they will have proven to not do much in which case we can still get rid of them (in most settings) or make it optional. Most people have gone away from them simply because there is no clear end to it. If you give people a date on the calendar to circle they can get on board with that.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

The husband of the teacher who filled my position when I retired said earlier this summer that his kids would not be wearing masks because he was teaching them about their freedoms.

For dad...

 

[sober_teacher]

I just received an email from the school where I used to teach. They plan to open 100% on August 25th. It said masks would be required on buses, in hallways, and some classrooms where distancing is not possible. I'm curious as to how that will go over with parents considering it is a very Republican area. The husband of the teacher who filled my position when I retired said earlier this summer that his kids would not be wearing masks because he was teaching them about their freedoms. I know he is not alone in his beliefs within the school district.

The greatest mystery of 2020 to me is how on earth mandating masks during a pandemic to help reduce the spread of an incredibly infectious disease became a test of our civil rights.

 

[Obviously Oblivious]

I'd be on board with that. Unfortunately, Reynolds won't let anything that mandates masks go without a fight.

I read the Johnson county board of health resolution which will go into effect fairly soon and it will require mandatory masks in all schools in the county, at least that’s my understanding of it. Solon, Iowa City, Regina CC-Amana, IMS, Lone Tree, I might be missing a few others.

 

[UKGrad93]

Yeah...that's why they're required to come through maintenance and teachers are barred from furnishing their own. The story I've told here before is of the OSHA guy finding a big refill bottle of generic liquid soap under my sink and telling me it had to go. I asked about the soap ON the sink and he said it was ok. I said, "But it's the same stuff". He answered, "Maybe, but it's in a Dial bottle and that's approved".

A soap refill stored under the sink should not be a problem as long as it is properly labeled. There is also a chance that the inspector was an idiot.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

A soap refill stored under the sink should not be a problem as long as it is properly labeled. There is also a chance that the inspector was an idiot.

Only those soaps of certain pedigrees were allowed. Dial was allowed. Thus generic soap in a Dial bottle was "legal" while generic soap in a generic bottle was not.

*shrug*