Did the Oregon shooter really target Christians?

[BABiscuit]

I have my doubts about this claim. Has anybody documented the faith of those that died to confirm they were all Christians? Has any survivor that was shot confirmed that they said they weren't religious or of a different religion and they were spared?

I think it is more likely he was planning on killing anybody of any religion. There just may not have been any Muslims or Buddhists or Jews in the classroom. I also think he could have asked their faith so he could make a comment about meeting God, but he had no plans on just killing Christians.

 

[timinatoria]

I have my doubts about this claim. Has anybody documented the faith of those that died to confirm they were all Christians? Has any survivor that was shot confirmed that they said they weren't religious or of a different religion and they were spared?

I think it is more likely he was planning on killing anybody of any religion. There just may not have been any Muslims or Buddhists or Jews in the classroom. I also think he could have asked their faith so he could make a comment about meeting God, but he had no plans on just killing Christians.

Just curious, but eyewitnesses said this. What reason do you have to doubt them?

 

[Jan Itor]

Just curious, but eyewitnesses said this. What reason do you have to doubt them?

And when he says eyewitness, he's talking about students in the room where it all went down. You calling them liars? Why do you hate victims?

 

[fredjr82]

Just curious, but eyewitnesses said this. What reason do you have to doubt them?

People say emotional stuff all the time after incidents like these. It's been proven to be untrue in the past so people are probably skeptical when it's mentioned now. For instance, FoxNews said the Charleston shooting was faith based and not race based. That was clearly a false narrative on their part. The shooting did take happen in a place of worship but it was clearly race driven.

That said, who knows if the Oregon shooter targeted Christians. He very well could have. But that doesn't mean that people don't get to question those making the statement as fact.

 

[fredjr82]

And when he says eyewitness, he's talking about students in the room where it all went down. You calling them liars? Why do you hate victims?

The same thing was said during Columbine. It was proven to be false. It was said they were going after minorities, jocks, and Christians. Eric Harris’s friends described him as a sports enthusiast, and two of his best friends were Asian and African American. People say emotionally charged things after a tragedy. It doesn't make them a fact.

 

[timinatoria]

People say emotional stuff all the time after incidents like these. It's been proven to be untrue in the past so people are probably skeptical when it's mentioned now. For instance, FoxNews said the Charleston shooting was faith based and not race based. That was clearly a false narrative on their part. The shooting did take happen in a place of worship but it was clearly race driven.

That said, who knows if the Oregon shooter targeted Christians. He very well could have. But that doesn't mean that people don't get to question those making the statement as fact.

That's fine, people can question whatever they want. And I do think there is difference between Fox News making an error and an eyewitness account.

Maybe there should be an investigation. And if they find out one of the victims wasn't a Christian, then what? Is it headline news? Did Christianity get some great benefit from this story that it didn't deserve? We really need to set the record straight on this.

 

[MichiganManLifer]

And when he says eyewitness, he's talking about students in the room where it all went down. You calling them liars? Why do you hate victims?

He likely hates Christians and like other liberals likes to cast doubt on the idea that a Christian can ever be a victim. Why would you call shooting victims liars?

 

[22*43*51]

Just curious, but eyewitnesses said this. What reason do you have to doubt them?

White Christians can't be victims.

 

[fredjr82]

That's fine, people can question whatever they want. And I do think there is difference between Fox News making an error and an eyewitness account.

Maybe there should be an investigation. And if they find out one of the victims wasn't a Christian, then what? Is it headline news? Did Christianity get some great benefit from this story that it didn't deserve? We really need to set the record straight on this.

I don't know. Ask the the FATHER OF THE EYEWITNESS in the video that first brought it up. He's the one that felt the need to tell everyone how Christians were targeted. He wasn't even an eyewitness but a father of an eyewitness. Did you ever play the game "Telephone" as a kid? Think about how the statement changes as it goes from one person to the next.

 

[Hawk in SEC Country]

The same thing was said during Columbine. It was proven to be false. It was said they were going after minorities, jocks, and Christians. Eric Harris’s friends described him as a sports enthusiast, and two of his best friends were Asian and African American. People say emotionally charged things after a tragedy. It doesn't make them a fact.

Eric Harris was also on multiple anti psychotic medications, and had pretty deep emotional issues that he had dealt with for years.

 

[TJ8869]

I don't know. Ask the the FATHER OF THE EYEWITNESS in the video that first brought it up. He's the one that felt the need to tell everyone how Christians were targeted. He wasn't even an eyewitness but a father of an eyewitness. Did you ever play the game "Telephone" as a kid? Think about how the statement changes as it goes from one person to the next.

FWIW, the eyewitness also told the same story in an interview with ABC News.

 

[fredjr82]

Eric Harris was also on multiple anti psychotic medications, and had pretty deep emotional issues that he had dealt with for years.

Thanks for the input. Not sure how it relates to the topic at hand that he dn't actually target a certain set of students, but I enjoy learning new things

 

[lucas80]

He might have identified victims based on their religion. It is very dangerous to draw conclusions on the actions of a person who was mentally ill, however. Did he hate Christians, or did he have his wires so crossed that he thought he was helping them to Heaven. Maybe he was just really messed up mentally and we'll never know because he is dead and can't answer questions.

 

[Hawk in SEC Country]

Thanks for the input. Not sure how it relates to the topic at hand that he dn't actually target a certain set of students, but I enjoy learning new things

So you believe that multiple students have made this up? I'm not religious and I don't think they did.

In the columbine shooting, IIRC I think it was her parents who really pushed the narrative, and the media ran with it.

 

[fredjr82]

FWIW, the eyewitness also told the same story in an interview with ABC News.

Fair enough. Eyewitnesses of Columbine also said they were targeting certain people. Doesn't make it a fact.

 

[aflachawk]

He likely hates Christians and like other liberals likes to cast doubt on the idea that a Christian can ever be a victim. Why would you call shooting victims liars?

IMHO, that's the reason for the OP's doubt. It stems from his view of Christians. If eye witnesses said the shooter asked people if they were Mexican and killed only those would he have an issue? Christians are being being killed for their faith all over the world and especially in the birth place of Christianity. Why would it be any different here? Even lib posters here make a constant sports of degrading the faithful. It's the cool thing to do by lefties

 

[fredjr82]

So you believe that multiple students have made this up? I'm not religious and I don't think they did.

In the columbine shooting, IIRC I think it was her parents who really pushed the narrative, and the media ran with it.

I don't know if multiple students are lying the same as you don't know if they're telling the truth. People do and say things after a tragic event that prove to be untrue as more and more time passes.

So the Columbine parents were pushing the narrative? The father of an eyewitness was the first to bring up the "Christians were targeted" narrative. So you question Columbine, but jump right on the bandwagon for this statement? Seems like sound logic.

 

[BABiscuit]

IMHO, that's the reason for the OP's doubt. It stems from his view of Christians. If eye witnesses said the shooter asked people if they were Mexican and killed only those would he have an issue? Christians are being being killed for their faith all over the world and especially in the birth place of Christianity. Why would it be any different here? Even lib posters here make a constant sports of degrading the faithful. It's the cool thing to do by lefties

I just don't like false narratives. Nothing to do with hating Christians. I'm not particularly religious, but I go to church occasionally and make an even bigger effort to get my kids to Sunday school.

 

[MichiganManLifer]

I just don't like false narratives. Nothing to do with hating Christians. I'm not particularly religious, but I go to church occasionally and make an even bigger effort to get my kids to Sunday school.

Why do you randomly question it then? Witnesses said that it happened, why should you doubt them?

 

[BABiscuit]

Why do you randomly question it then? Witnesses said that it happened, why should you doubt them?

Because it interests me and I don't like false narratives.

 

[MichiganManLifer]

Because it interests me and I don't like false narratives.

Aren't you creating the false narrative?

 

[jscott78]

Why do you randomly question it then? Witnesses said that it happened, why should you doubt them?

It smells like the kind of tragedy wingers like to turn to their own benefit. That's all, nothing wrong with questioning it. The testy white folk do it all the time.

 

[BABiscuit]

Aren't you creating the false narrative?

Of course not.

 

[swagsurfer02]

So you believe that multiple students have made this up? I'm not religious and I don't think they did.

In the columbine shooting, IIRC I think it was her parents who really pushed the narrative, and the media ran with it.

I believe this to be true. I went to college with a girl who was a sophomore at Columbine and was in the cafeteria when the shootings happened. Her twin sister was in the library at the time and was hiding under a table with the girl who was asked about believing in God. According to what this girl told me, the victim said she didn't however was shot.

The media and family ran with the narrative that she said she did. When the sister of the one I know was interviewed, she said the classmate said she didn't and was basically an outcast by the community. Even when they showed up to the funerals.

I've talked to this girl many times about the shooting because I was fascinated by it and was a freshman at the time myself. She told me that she and her sister were in years of therapy.

 

[naturalmwa]

He might have identified victims based on their religion. It is very dangerous to draw conclusions on the actions of a person who was mentally ill, however. Did he hate Christians, or did he have his wires so crossed that he thought he was helping them to Heaven. Maybe he was just really messed up mentally and we'll never know because he is dead and can't answer questions.

There is a sneaky fascinating point in here.

 

[BABiscuit]

So you believe that multiple students have made this up? .

I don't think they made it up. I think he likely did ask if they were Christian or religious. I think where the story is getting twisted is that he then spared the life of all that didn't say they were Christian. I think the students that have made the claim believe that to be true. There have been other claims that he wasn't targeting Christians. Do you think that witness is making it up?

Do we really believe that after one person being shot for being Christian and somebody else was allowed to live for not answering or saying they weren't Christian, that eight others defiantly stood up and said they were Christian knowing that would mean certain death?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Maybe there should be an investigation. And if they find out one of the victims wasn't a Christian, then what? Is it headline news? Did Christianity get some great benefit from this story that it didn't deserve?

Presumably not. BUT those who keep peddling the notion that Christians are victims and Christianity is under attack now have an actual example (if this is accepted as true) instead of the mountain of made-up examples we are constantly hearing from the echo chamber.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I have my doubts about this claim. Has anybody documented the faith of those that died to confirm they were all Christians? Has any survivor that was shot confirmed that they said they weren't religious or of a different religion and they were spared?

I think it is more likely he was planning on killing anybody of any religion. There just may not have been any Muslims or Buddhists or Jews in the classroom. I also think he could have asked their faith so he could make a comment about meeting God, but he had no plans on just killing Christians.

Thanks for asking the question.

 

[Jan Itor]

The same thing was said during Columbine. It was proven to be false. It was said they were going after minorities, jocks, and Christians. Eric Harris’s friends described him as a sports enthusiast, and two of his best friends were Asian and African American. People say emotionally charged things after a tragedy. It doesn't make them a fact.

That is true, but this was on a smaller scale (one room and one group of people). And it wasn't just one eyewitness that stated he was shooting Christians in the head and others in the leg/foot/or not at all. Since I wasn't in there, I tend to listen to eyewitness reports until otherwise proven false.

 

[Jan Itor]

Presumably not. BUT those who keep peddling the notion that Christians are victims and Christianity is under attack now have an actual example (if this is accepted as true) instead of the mountain of made-up examples we are constantly hearing from the echo chamber.

You attack Christians on here daily.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

This is becoming the liberal version of a "false flag attack"

All evidence indicates he targeted Christians specifically for kill shots while attempting to wound others. No one who was there has really denied this to my knowledge.

Mass shooters zone in on certain people all the time, it's not a big deal. You are taking this politically where it doesn't need to go. The focus should be on what we are going to do to stop mass shootings.

If someone wants to provide evidence that the targeting of Christians was a fabrication then please do so, only in an effort to get the history right. Otherwise this seems to be liberals trying to change the history because what really happened doesn't fit their political narrative in terms of who is the oppressor and who are the oppressed.

 

[aflachawk]

Presumably not. BUT those who keep peddling the notion that Christians are victims and Christianity is under attack now have an actual example (if this is accepted as true) instead of the mountain of made-up examples we are constantly hearing from the echo chamber.

So all the real examples of Christians being killed in the Mid East and around the world come from some sort of echo chamber? It seems to me to deny Christians are being being persecuted world wide is being part of an echo chamber

 

[hawkeye54545]

How many of the resident libs would be openly questioning the eyewitnesses if the shooter were a straight white Christian male who was only shooting Muslims?

 

[fredjr82]

That is true, but this was on a smaller scale (one room and one group of people). And it wasn't just one eyewitness that stated he was shooting Christians in the head and others in the leg/foot/or not at all. Since I wasn't in there, I tend to listen to eyewitness reports until otherwise proven false.

Fair enough. It wasn't an eyewitness that started the "Targeting Christians" narrative but a father of an eyewitness. If parents helped drive the narrative for Columbine why do you think it couldn't be done in this situation?

It seems to me that the argument is that similar tragedies in the past had the same emotionally charged statements attached to them. Because enough time has passed we've come to the realization that most of the things that were initially said turned out to be false or exaggarrated. But yet, here we are again jumping on the emotional bandwagon when we've fallen off so many times in the past.

 

[BABiscuit]

This is becoming the liberal version of a "false flag attack"

All evidence indicates he targeted Christians specifically for kill shots while attempting to wound others. No one who was there has really denied this to my knowledge.

Mass shooters zone in on certain people all the time, it's not a big deal. You are taking this politically where it doesn't need to go. The focus should be on what we are going to do to stop mass shootings.

If someone wants to provide evidence that the targeting of Christians was a fabrication then please do so, only in an effort to get the history right. Otherwise this seems to be liberals trying to change the history because what really happened doesn't fit their political narrative in terms of who is the oppressor and who are the oppressed.

What evidence is there that he targeted Christians for kill shots? I'm serious? Have you seen evidence that the dead are all Christian? Are their statements from those injured stating they didn't say they were Christian so they were shot in the leg? As I asked SEC, do you really think people defiantly still answered that they were Christian even after it became clear that he was targeting Christians?

Here is one version that contradicts he was targeting Christians.

Rand McGowan, who was shot in the hand, told his mother it didn't seem the shooter was deliberately targeting Christians.


"It was more so saying, 'You're going to be meeting your maker,' " Stephanie Salas said.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/or...ympathy-calculated-killings-witnesses-n438286

 

[fredjr82]

How many of the resident libs would be openly questioning the eyewitnesses if the shooter were a straight white Christian male who was only shooting Muslims?

We can turn the tables on this just as easily. How many of the resident cons would be so quick to believe the eyewitnesses if the shooter were a straight white Christian male who was only shooting Muslims? See how easy that was?

Now if you actually want to act like an adult and have a grown-up conversation let us know.

 

[pablow]

I don't know if multiple students are lying the same as you don't know if they're telling the truth. People do and say things after a tragic event that prove to be untrue as more and more time passes.

So the Columbine parents were pushing the narrative? The father of an eyewitness was the first to bring up the "Christians were targeted" narrative. So you question Columbine, but jump right on the bandwagon for this statement? Seems like sound logic.

You're getting very predictable - and boring too.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Do you think we could get serious gun control if it was actually true that Christians were being targeted?

Somehow I doubt it.

Would we get serious gun control if there were another shooting where Christians were targeted? How about another after that? Or another after that?

How many shootings where Christians were targeted would it take?

If we banned guns entirely, what would those dastardly Christian-targeters use? Knives? Pipe bombs? Words? Or would the attacks stop?

 

[fredjr82]

You're getting very predictable - and boring too.

Translation = I don't have a counter-argument so I'll just concede by calling someone predictable and boring.

 

[naturalmwa]

You're getting very predictable - and boring too.

That's the deepest cut of all to be called boring. Maybe the next killer could go after more interesting targets like the Goldman Sachs board of directors. We should encourage our killers to step up their game. As a bonus, I bet we could get libs to sit on their hands about gun control.