Do people realize Frans nine years have been just as good

[hawkland14]

as Tom Davis last nine years. From 90-98 Iowa went to the tourney five times only making the Sweet 16 once. After this year Fran will have gone to the dance four years with two victories in the first round. Let’s also remember the state of the program and talent when Dr. Tom got here in 85 to when Fran got here after Lickliter. One could argue that Fran has done a better job of coaching his first nine years at the program thanks Dr Tom, the legend did his last nine years. But sure let’s fire him so we can go hire a coach from the Missouri Valley who has one year of head coaching experience and zero ties to recruiting in our league.

 

[ChiHawk21]

This team has 21 wins, and more basketball to play.

 

[HaydenHawk8]

How many times was Dr Tom suspended for attacking officials?

Both had good runs, but Frans got until next year to make a sweet 16. Most places would fire a coach for not making it to the sweet 16 or farther in 10 years.

What’s Iowa best finish under Fran? Was it 5th? Under Dr Tom what was his best finish.

Again if Fran makes some changes and gets a transfer to run point I think most fans will be happy. But it’s the not making any changes and doing the same thing over and over again that is driving fans crazy.

 

[iahawkeyes17]

How many times was Dr Tom suspended for attacking officials?

Both had good runs, but Frans got until next year to make a sweet 16. Most places would fire a coach for not making it to the sweet 16 or farther in 10 years.

What’s Iowa best finish under Fran? Was it 5th? Under Dr Tom what was his best finish.

Again if Fran makes some changes and gets a transfer to run point I think most fans will be happy. But it’s the not making any changes and doing the same thing over and over again that is driving fans crazy.

Davis went 11 years in between his sweet 16 appearances. I do agree with OP if you take out first 3 years davis and Fran very similar track record. Difference is davis inherited a roster of multiple nba players and Fran inherited a roster full of mid major players and gatens. Also frans best finish is tying for 3rd 2x last two years we made the tourney when we finished 12-6 both years.

 

[iahawks10]

Davis went 11 years in between his sweet 16 appearances. I do agree with OP if you take out first 3 years davis and Fran very similar track record. Difference is davis inherited a roster of multiple nba players and Fran inherited a roster full of mid major players and gatens. Also frans best finish is tying for 3rd 2x last two years we made the tourney when we finished 12-6 both years.

Fran has never finished last in the Big Ten. Neither did Alford or Lickliter.

Dr Tom?

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

Dr Tom would’ve been lit up by Iowa fans if social media existed

 

[CJBauer]

Davis went 11 years in between his sweet 16 appearances. I do agree with OP if you take out first 3 years davis and Fran very similar track record. Difference is davis inherited a roster of multiple nba players and Fran inherited a roster full of mid major players and gatens. Also frans best finish is tying for 3rd 2x last two years we made the tourney when we finished 12-6 both years.

Fran has never finished last in the Big Ten. Neither did Alford or Lickliter.

Dr Tom?

1994

9/10 in 1990

 

[General Tso]

as Tom Davis last nine years. From 90-98 Iowa went to the tourney five times only making the Sweet 16 once. After this year Fran will have gone to the dance four years with two victories in the first round. Let’s also remember the state of the program and talent when Dr. Tom got here in 85 to when Fran got here after Lickliter. One could argue that Fran has done a better job of coaching his first nine years at the program thanks Dr Tom, the legend did his last nine years. But sure let’s fire him so we can go hire a coach from the Missouri Valley who has one year of head coaching experience and zero ties to recruiting in our league.

What am I missing? 5 appearances and one sweet 16 is better than 4 appearances and no sweet 16s. Plus, one appearance was a play in game that didn't exist in Dr Tim's era.

 

[mtdew_fever]

Tom Davis got run for that nine year run.

I think we are seeing some people are tired of what Fran offers....and enough to want to see what an unproven coach like DeVries could do.

as Tom Davis last nine years. From 90-98 Iowa went to the tourney five times only making the Sweet 16 once. After this year Fran will have gone to the dance four years with two victories in the first round. Let’s also remember the state of the program and talent when Dr. Tom got here in 85 to when Fran got here after Lickliter. One could argue that Fran has done a better job of coaching his first nine years at the program thanks Dr Tom, the legend did his last nine years. But sure let’s fire him so we can go hire a coach from the Missouri Valley who has one year of head coaching experience and zero ties to recruiting in our league.

 

[denmar81]

Did Davis ever lose a 1st round game?

 

[HaydenHawk8]

Tom Davis got run for that nine year run.

I think we are seeing some people are tired of what Fran offers....and enough to want to see what an unproven coach like DeVries could do.

The whole recruiting aspect is kind of important. Could a mid major coach get the type of recruits to take Iowa to the next level. Looks like he’s open to taking transfers (took Ellingson and I don’t know why). But if he’s willing to take transfers and try to get the best players in here I’d be all for it.

 

[hawkland14]

What am I missing? 5 appearances and one sweet 16 is better than 4 appearances and no sweet 16s. Plus, one appearance was a play in game that didn't exist in Dr Tim's era.

Dr Tom is a legend according to most fans yet Fran is a pariah who we are ready to replace with a nobody.

 

[hawkland14]

Did Davis ever lose a 1st round game?

Who cares he lost plenty of second round ones. As well as a few NITs and last place finishes.

Tom Davis got run for that nine year run.

I think we are seeing some people are tired of what Fran offers....and enough to want to see what an unproven coach like DeVries could do.

Davis got run becuase of one man. Bowlsby. Granted when you are bringing in Marcelo Gomes and Antonio Ramos it was the right move. Let’s axe Fran when he is bringing in two four star recruits next year and returns almost our entire NCAA tourney team roster so we can get a Missouri Valley Coach who has one year of head coaching experience. Seems logical.

 

[HawkLogic]

The compilation of records over last 45 years I saw showed Davis, Raveling, Alford, Fran pretty similar. Lute was the Best. Lickliter was the worst. Raveling was underrated because he recruited a boat load of talent that setup Davis.

Doesn't seem like finding a guy that can match Fran record would be difficult. Alford had very similar record and he was given a conversation. Fran got a 10 year extension. Fire Barta first and then let the chips fall where they may.

 

[HawkIDrummer]

Dr Tom is a legend according to most fans yet Fran is a pariah who we are ready to replace with a nobody.

By all means...don't exaggerate or anything.

 

[hawkland14]

The compilation of records over last 45 years I saw showed Davis, Raveling, Alford, Fran pretty similar. Lute was the Best. Lickliter was the worst. Raveling was underrated because he recruited a boat load of talent that setup Davis.

Doesn't seem like finding a guy that can match Fran record would be difficult. Alford had very similar record and he was given a conversation. Fran got a 10 year extension. Fire Barta first and then let the chips fall where they may.

It’s not that easy. You don’t just get rid of a guy at a program and not have drop off at a place like Iowa. If we get rid of Fran you will see a mass exodus of players and we go 10-20 next year and would have to wait 3 to 4 years before any progress. As we saw with Lickliter that success doesn’t always follow. Darian Devries ain’t gonna lead us to any Big Ten titles anytime soon.

 

[hawkland14]

By all means...don't exaggerate or anything.

Have you read the boards over the last week? Don’t think it’s an exaggeration, especially with how a lot fans have gone after Fran after the last two games.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

I really like Dr. Tom and he was a fine face of the program but the”myth” and love affair about what a great coach he was is really a head scratcher. After finishing his last 2 years at Stanford in dead last 10th and 8th place he luckily landed the Iowa job where he cashed in for 2 years o Raveling recruits. Year 3 was VERY disappointing considering he STILL had a roster with 5-6 future NBA players going 10-8 in conference 2nd round oust in NCAA. His years 3-9 was 4 games under in conference play. Years 3-9 Fran is over .500 but fans still yearn for the good Dr. days.

 

[hawkland14]

I really like Dr. Tom and he was a fine face of the program but the”myth” and love affair about what a great coach he was is really a head scratcher. After finishing his last 2 years at Stanford in dead last 10th and 8th place he luckily landed the Iowa job where he cashed in for 2 years o Raveling recruits. Year 3 was VERY disappointing considering he STILL had a roster with 5-6 future NBA players going 10-8 in conference 2nd round oust in NCAA. His years 3-9 was 4 games under in conference play. Years 3-9 Fran is over .500 but fans still yearn for the good Dr. days.

But but conference schedule. And that one time we went to the Sweet 16. For sure Drakes coach could get us there once again, probably in year 1.

10 years from now after we Fran out of town like most of you people want, we will be wishing we had him back and be erecting a statue out in front of Carver as we go 3-17 in conference play under our third new coach from some Mo Valley school.

 

[HaydenHawk8]

But but conference schedule. And that one time we went to the Sweet 16. For sure Drakes coach could get us there once again, probably in year 1.

10 years from now after we Fran out of town like most of you people want, we will be wishing we had him back and be erecting a statue out in front of Carver as we go 3-17 in conference play under our third new coach from some Mo Valley school.

Why does it have to be a mo valley coach? Why not a proven coach from somewhere? I see several guys at small schools now, why not give them a shot (Lorenzo Romar, Tubby Smith, Calvin Sampson, and others).

I’m getting sick of Frans antics and his lack of success. If I’m gonna pay thousands of dollars for season tix, I want a better product than what I’m paying for.

 

[hawkeye_1997]

Nobody is or has been saying Dr Tom had epic success at Iowa. People including myself are just saying we’re still not to the level of success Dr Tom. I’m fine comparing the last 9 years but saying Fran is doing the same is stretching it. 5 tournaments with 6 wins is a lot better then 4 tournament and 2 wins. Dr Tom, was also a lot like Kirk. The sum was more the total of its pieces. His teams played hard and typically improved. Dr Tom getting a T was a rarity yet he still worked the refs.

Regardless Fran’s last 6 year pace is still not close to Dr Tom’s 9 year pace. Also people crying about Fran having nothing to start with only gets you so far. You only need a handful of good to great players to turn a basketball program around. This ain’t football where you need 80 plus kids. Despite this Kirk was able to go worse to first in 4 years.

College athletics is unique since you only get 5 years max with players. All coaches have rosters continually turning over so there are many opportunities to improve or fail. It’s not like one team can dominate years with the same roster. The fact is we’ve seen several of Fran’s classes now and they’ve all flopped down the stretch. Even worse, they appear to give up.

The men’s program could learn a lot from the lady’s. Chemistry, unselfish, hard working, and just fun to watch. That’s another thing. Dr Tom’s team were fun to watch and easy to cheer for. We don’t have much of this going on in the men’s program.

Anyway it’s Barta that needs to go not Fran. Another barta hire will likely struggle.

 

[HaydenHawk8]

Nobody is or has been saying Dr Tom had epic success at Iowa. People including myself are just saying we’re still not to the level of success Dr Tom. I’m fine comparing the last 9 years but saying Fran is doing the same is stretching it. 5 tournaments with 6 wins is a lot better then 4 tournament and 2 wins. Dr Tom, was also a lot like Kirk. The sum was more the total of its pieces. His teams played hard and typically improved. Dr Tom getting a T was a rarity yet he still worked the refs.

Regardless Fran’s last 6 year pace is still not close to Dr Tom’s 9 year pace. Also people crying about Fran having nothing to start with only gets you so far. You only need a handful of good to great players to turn a basketball program around. This ain’t football where you need 80 plus kids. Despite this Kirk was able to go worse to first in 4 years.

College athletics is unique since you only get 5 years max with players. All coaches have rosters continually turning over so there are many opportunities to improve or fail. It’s not like one team can dominate years with the same roster. The fact is we’ve seen several of Fran’s classes now and they’ve all flopped down the stretch. Even worse, they appear to give up.

The men’s program could learn a lot from the lady’s. Chemistry, unselfish, hard working, and just fun to watch. That’s another thing. Dr Tom’s team were fun to watch and easy to cheer for. We don’t have much of this going on in the men’s program.

Anyway it’s Barta that needs to go not Fran. Another barta hire will likely struggle.

Agreed 100%! You said it perfectly!

 

[hawkeye_1997]

Have you read the boards over the last week? Don’t think it’s an exaggeration, especially with how a lot fans have gone after Fran after the last two games.

How can we go after Fran when he’s not even with the team?

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

But but conference schedule. And that one time we went to the Sweet 16. For sure Drakes coach could get us there once again, probably in year 1.

10 years from now after we Fran out of town like most of you people want, we will be wishing we had him back and be erecting a statue out in front of Carver as we go 3-17 in conference play under our third new coach from some Mo Valley school.

Oh I know I’ve heard the “Dr. Tom had to play the full conference schedule” (that had for most his tenure an awful Wisconsin and no Maryland) Dr. Tom had the advantage of a “new” Carver facility that has now been surpassed by nearly all B1G teams. Basketball in B1G is much better now than during his tenure.

 

[hawkeye_1997]

Oh I know I’ve heard the “Dr. Tom had to play the full conference schedule” (that had for most his tenure an awful Wisconsin and no Maryland) Dr. Tom had the advantage of a “new” Carver facility that has now been surpassed by nearly all B1G teams. Basketball in B1G is much better now than during his tenure.

OMG someone just called Carver an advantage at one point. That’s a first!

I hope we all can agree we want better then Dr Tom or Fran. People are taking the Tom Davis’s references the wrong way.

Dr Tom also had to deal with the loss of one of the best Hawks ever. Handling that has to be worth something as well. The year we loss Chris, we had a very good team.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

OMG someone just called Carver an advantage at one point. That’s a first!

I hope we all can agree we want better then Dr Tom or Fran. People are taking the Tom Davis’s references the wrong way.

Dr Tom also had to deal with the loss of one of the best Hawks ever. Handling that has to be worth something as well. The year we loss Chris, we had a very good team.

Thst’s true about Chis but he also had Jess Settles for 11 years. BTW, yes the weight room in Carver at the time was comparable or better than most in the Big 10, now it ranks near dead last. Firing Fran won’t change a thing I don’t care who we bring in. Read my post in the “hire Devries” thread if you want to know why.

 

[Lone Clone]

Dr Tom is a legend according to most fans yet Fran is a pariah who we are ready to replace with a nobody.

Coaches become legends the way Dr. Tom became a legend. Time passes and successors disappoint.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Dr Tom is a legend according to most fans yet Fran is a pariah who we are ready to replace with a nobody.

Same reason Nebraska was willing to get rid of Bo Pelini despite consistently winning 9-10 games a year.........

 

[Raptorpeeps]

10 years from now after we Fran out of town like most of you people want, we will be wishing we had him back and be erecting a statue out in front of Carver as we go 3-17 in conference play under our third new coach from some Mo Valley school.

You’d want a 70 year old Fran McCaffrey coaching Iowa basketball?

You’re one of the fans who just wants a nice quiet place to eat ice cream aren’t you?

 

[danloney]

as Tom Davis last nine years. From 90-98 Iowa went to the tourney five times only making the Sweet 16 once. After this year Fran will have gone to the dance four years with two victories in the first round. Let’s also remember the state of the program and talent when Dr. Tom got here in 85 to when Fran got here after Lickliter. One could argue that Fran has done a better job of coaching his first nine years at the program thanks Dr Tom, the legend did his last nine years. But sure let’s fire him so we can go hire a coach from the Missouri Valley who has one year of head coaching experience and zero ties to recruiting in our league.

The problem is not so much his record but the style of play. Dr Tom had some excellent PGs and he had defensive shot blockers. We under Fran have had neither consequently terrible defense and late season fades.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

So your argument is that the mediocrity of Fran's entire tenure is equal to the mediocrity of Davis time after you remove the better years? And that's why he should keep his job?

 

[hawkland14]

So your argument is that the mediocrity of Fran's entire tenure is equal to the mediocrity of Davis time after you remove the better years? And that's why he should keep his job?

When the alternatives are on the level of an Alford or Lickliter, yes he should keep his job, especially after coming off a year in which he makes the NCAA tourney. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side as we have learned to the two hires before Fran. You are willing to take that risk after Fran has taken us to the tourney in 4 out of the last 6 years? Logic right there.

 

[OutbackBowl2017]

I really like Dr. Tom and he was a fine face of the program but the”myth” and love affair about what a great coach he was is really a head scratcher. After finishing his last 2 years at Stanford in dead last 10th and 8th place he luckily landed the Iowa job where he cashed in for 2 years o Raveling recruits. Year 3 was VERY disappointing considering he STILL had a roster with 5-6 future NBA players going 10-8 in conference 2nd round oust in NCAA. His years 3-9 was 4 games under in conference play. Years 3-9 Fran is over .500 but fans still yearn for the good Dr. days.

There’s a difference in one being a gentleman b-ball coach and the other being an a hole b-ball coach. That’s what’s holding Iowa back with the negative recruiting against mad Fran. Time for change or I’m gonna get mad again! What a marketing slogan, only at Iowa.

 

[83Hawk]

When the alternatives are on the level of an Alford or Lickliter, yes he should keep his job, especially after coming off a year in which he makes the NCAA tourney. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side as we have learned to the two hires before Fran. You are willing to take that risk after Fran has taken us to the tourney in 4 out of the last 6 years? Logic right there.

You are part of the problem. Complacent fans who are happy with mediocrity. Afraid to make a change because it “might” get worse. You know what? There is just as much chance things could get better.

But maybe you are right....better play it safe and stick to being average (at best). We don’t want to strive for success because we might fail.

 

[HawkIDrummer]

Have you read the boards over the last week? Don’t think it’s an exaggeration, especially with how a lot fans have gone after Fran after the last two games.

People liked Dr Tom...because, well he was likable. I don't see anybody throwing his name in hall of fame discussions.

Why do you think fans have gone after Fran? His team is crashing and burning....again. HE...crashed and burned again. He comes off as arrogant and thin skinned in some of his interviews. Despite all the sugar they wanna try an pour on it, we know there's a rift between him and our play-by-play guy. And of course our illustrious AD quietly extended his contract after a train wreck season with out telling anybody...making him untouchable for years.

Sure there's some softening that takes place remembering a coach from 20 years ago...but Fran has also created his own situation (with a little help from GarBar)

 

[Hawkbiz]

Oh I know I’ve heard the “Dr. Tom had to play the full conference schedule” (that had for most his tenure an awful Wisconsin and no Maryland) Dr. Tom had the advantage of a “new” Carver facility that has now been surpassed by nearly all B1G teams. Basketball in B1G is much better now than during his tenure.

Nope. Not even close.
Between Bobby Knights great Indiana teams, the flying Illini of Lou Henson, gene Keadys always tough Boilermakers, Michigan’s Fab 5 and great teams of the 80s Big Ten basketball was way better then.

You could argue the bottom of the big ten is better now but the additions of Rutgers and Nebraska haven’t helped that argument.

 

[HaydenHawk8]

People liked Dr Tom...because, well he was likable. I don't see anybody throwing his name in hall of fame discussions.

Why do you think fans have gone after Fran? His team is crashing and burning....again. HE...crashed and burned again. Despite all the sugar they wanna try an pour on it, we know there's a rift between him and our play-by-play guy. He comes off as arrogant and thin skinned in some of his interviews. And of course our illustrious AD quietly extended his contract and made him untouchable for years after a train wreck season with out telling anybody.

Sure there's some softening that takes place remembering a coach from 20 years ago...but Fran has also created his own situation (with a little help from GarBar)

The current play of the team has brought on a lot of hate towards Fran. Justifiably so, he’s the head man in charge and it’s job to prepare the players for the games. He still had contact during his suspension, so he was with them during shoot around and all practices.

Me personally we could of won at Wisky, OSU and I’d still be upset with Fran. This is the second time he’s been suspended for attacking officials. He’s been kicked out two times as well. The (fighting for my guys) is over the top and truthfully every coach does it. It’s not like he’s the only one who argues for his players. The fact he called an official a cheater and was out of control in the tunnel at OSU showed me he’s a nutcase who can’t control himself.

I’ll give him until year 10. If we have no sweet 16 appearances, then I say we move on.

 

[hawkeyeinmo]

Nope. Not even close.
Between Bobby Knights great Indiana teams, the flying Illini of Lou Henson, gene Keadys always tough Boilermakers, Michigan’s Fab 5 and great teams of the 80s Big Ten basketball was way better then.

You could argue the bottom of the big ten is better now but the additions of Rutgers and Nebraska haven’t helped that argument.

I thought about Illinois and Indiana before I said that. But Maryland is ranked right there in tradition/history with Illinois. Yes, Indiana has not been the Indiana of the 80’s-90’s but that is offset with the rise of Wisconsin. Illinois demise has partially due to the same reason as Iowa. Their facilities are ranked #11 just ahead of Iowa’s #12. In 1986 would you have believed me if I told you Northwestern basketball facilities would be ranked 4 spots ahead of Iowa’s basketball facilities in the near future? College sports have become more and more of an “arm’s race” and if Iowa fire’s Fran I don’t look for much program improvement unless they give the coach more “sales tools”.

 

[waterboy4582]

When the alternatives are on the level of an Alford or Lickliter, yes he should keep his job, especially after coming off a year in which he makes the NCAA tourney. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side as we have learned to the two hires before Fran. You are willing to take that risk after Fran has taken us to the tourney in 4 out of the last 6 years? Logic right there.

You don’t leave your house because someone wrecked and died on a local road right?

 

[HawkIDrummer]

The current play of the team has brought on a lot of hate towards Fran. Justifiably so, he’s the head man in charge and it’s job to prepare the players for the games. He still had contact during his suspension, so he was with them during shoot around and all practices.
.

I heard somebody excuse the last two Ls due to Fran's absence. B...S... he's coached em all season and has a bench full of assistants. If they don't know what to do by now...and the assistants don't understand the substitution patterns and in-game changes that they make...somebody ain't showin' up to work every day. There's also the "let's rally around our coach" angle...instead of coming out like they had something to prove or wanted to make a statement... they folded up. Pretty sad.

"I’ll give him until year 10. If we have no sweet 16 appearances, then I say we move on"

And yes...10 years is a long time coaching at one place without anything to brag about...not even one season where they got hot and made it to the second weekend of the tourney, or the B1G title game (hell the B1G semi-final) or sniffed a reg season title. (please, somebody don't embarrass yourself by saying we made it to the NIT final). What kind of an idiot AD gives a guy guaranteed money for 4 more years?