[QUOTE="HawkIDrummer, post: 6335871What kind of an idiot AD gives a guy guaranteed money for 4 more years?[/QUOTE]
ANSWER: “Who is Gary Barta, Alex?”
ANSWER: “Who is Gary Barta, Alex?”
Do people realize Frans nine years have been just as good
- Thread starter hawkland14
- Start date
Actually between the 90/91 season and the 98/99 season, Iowa played in six NCAA tournaments. They went 7-6 during those tourney appearances. The common knock on Davis is that he inherited an NBA roster and did nothing after those guys left. He DID inherit Armstrong (good NBA career), Marble (not so great career) and Horton (cup of coffee in the league). He also inherited Brad Lohaus, a guy who had been a huge disappointment under Lute and George. Lohaus had the best NBA career of any player on the 86/87 roster. But disregarding the first three years of TDs tenure, here are some numbers and how they compare with Fran and Alford.
TD
B1G winning percentage: .506
Average B1G finish: 5.1
NCAA tourney record: 7-6
Record vs ISU: 6-4
ALFORD
B1G winning percentage: .477
Average B1G finish: 6.5
NCAA record: 1-3
vs ISU: 4-4
FRAN
B1G winning percentage: .478
Average B1G finish: 6.4
NCAA record: 2-3
vs ISU: 3-6
In addition to these numbers, the conference dynamics are totally different today than thirty years ago. They have added one good team (Maryland) and three sisters of the poor (PSU, Nubby, and Rutgers). Wisconsin is better than they were then but Illinois is much worse. Translation: it is a hell of a lot easier to have a winning B1G record today than it was during TDs era.
By any metric, Davis out-performed Fran. Period. And he also wasn't a major-league asshole.
A fundamental of professional life; if you're an a-hole you better be damn good at your job. If you're a nice guy who people enjoy working with...you get a lot more leeway.
Not enough! Look, the McJunkins really is a shady character no matter how you slice it. At 6-27 calling Iowa games, something is seriously wrong!
He is either hating Iowa, a gambler or has that unconscious bias thing going on. 6-27!?! Wth!?
I've not made the argument that Fran should go this year. Entirely because the first move that needs to be made is Barta's exit.
Fran's record when it comes to the NCAA tourney is not in his favor. 2 wins over 8 seasons, including getting bounced in a play in game (Yes, that addition in Dayton is a play in game) is not in the least impressive. Not a point in his favor.
Wow. Not really germane to the debate, but I could not let this piece of idiocy slide by. Some of you people believe whatever you read. Below, per Basketball Reference are the career NBA stats of three members of the 86-87 team.
B.J. Armstrong
Games 747
Games started 341
Points 7320
Rebounds 1321
Assists 2479
Steals 533
FG % .477
3Pt % .424
Playoff games played/started: 105/39
All-star games: 1
Career Earnings: 16,380,00
Interesting names on his list of players with similar careers: Steve Kerr, John Wall, Klay Thompson
Kevin Gamble
Games 649
Games started 270
Points 6154
Rebounds 1457
Assists 1300
Steals 470
FG % .502
3Pt % .360
Playoff games played/started: 31/26
All-star games: 0
Career Earnings; 11,800,000
Interesting names on his list of players with similar careers: LaPhonso Ellis, Jim Brewer
Brad Lohaus
Games 656
Games started 116
Points 3854
Rebounds 1869
Assists 714
Steals 307
FG % .440
3Pt % .361
Playoff games played/started: 20/4
All-star games: 0
Career Earnings: 5,458,000
Interesting names on his list of players with similar careers: Matt Bullard
Lohaus played twelve years in the league-longer than the other guys. Armstrong benefitted from spending seven years on the best team in NBA history. I should have included Gamble-he was overshadowed during his Iowa career other than the shot against Oklahoma. He did have a long NBA career.
My point was that Davis didn't only win with those NBA players he inherited from Raveling. Lohaus was not on any path to play in the NBA until Davis became the coach.
So is Fran’s behavior an issue or is it only an issue when he doesn’t win “enough?” Your last couple sentences seem to indicate the latter
Especially in 1989 after giving up 119 and 118 points in back to back games losing by 23 and 24 points witth a team that had 5 future NBA players on it.
see earlier post:
"A fundamental of professional life; if you're an a-hole you better be damn good at your job. If you're a nice guy who people enjoy working with...you get a lot more leeway."
So if Fran got this team a 6 seed in the tournament instead of an 8 or 9 would he have the right to be an a-hole? That is what Iowa was on track for before their skid. Seems petty to me considering if Iowa beat Wisconsin we wouldn’t even be having this discussion right now
NO, but feel free to spin it that way to fit your narrative. (never mind that the diff between a 9 seed and a 6 seed ain't much...performance wise. We're talking about championship level performance vs meh...or worse).
It's pretty fundamental that people who perform at a high level get more leeway because they deliver results. People who are easier to work with and get along with tend to have more longevity as they build a lot of goodwill equity.
That really has to be explained?
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This is hardly news.
Numerous examples of coaches that are unpleasant human beings keeping their job because they win.
Nice guys may hold on longer, but they ultimately have to show results as well.
It's a bottom line business.
Dr. Tom was let go because the program had stagenated. A lame duck sweet 16 fueled by 4th, 5th and 6th year seniors doesn’t change that.
The program is now, again, stuck in pergatory (not bad, but not trending in a positive direction). We are better than last year because we were way worse than anticipated last year.
The Dr Tom and Fran situations are similar. Neither one was giving hope for anything big coming down the road.
Vastly different than Kirk where many years are like a 11-9 hoops season BUT once in a while we do something special 02,04,09,15. Those years would be like elite 8 runs.
We need that just once in a while in basketball.
The program is now, again, stuck in pergatory (not bad, but not trending in a positive direction). We are better than last year because we were way worse than anticipated last year.
The Dr Tom and Fran situations are similar. Neither one was giving hope for anything big coming down the road.
Vastly different than Kirk where many years are like a 11-9 hoops season BUT once in a while we do something special 02,04,09,15. Those years would be like elite 8 runs.
We need that just once in a while in basketball.
My only narrative is that this board is filled with people who are extremely fickle/temperamental. When Iowa was on track for a 5/6 seed, it was all sunshine on this board. One particular post calling for Fran to at least be granted another year, “regardless of what happens the rest of this year,” had damn near 30 likes on it. Tough to believe that post occurred less than a month ago.
How depressing it must be to feel so crappy about your favorite college team losing a few basketball games that people choose to spend their time bitching anonymously on an online message board, where nobody of importance will ever see it, for players to leave and coaches to get fired.
But yeah, I’ve got a “narrative” for choosing to wait and see how the season plays out before grabbing my pitchfork and joining the mob, decrying the coach and team who will be playing in the NCAA Tournament while competing in the most difficult conference in college basketball.
Spare me the condescending “that really has to be explained?” comments. I understand business. I also understand that in the college basketball business, making the NCAA tournament is typically considered a sign of a successful season and isn’t going to be getting any coaches fired, so I’m not going to waste my time whining for it to happen, and instead just cheer for my favorite team
How often do coaches get fired after coaching their team to the NCAA tournament?
Note: I’m not saying this is my barometer of success. I’m not saying that if Fran making it to the Round of 32 is the highest he gets any of his teams, that is acceptable. My only question is, when do coaches get fired after making the NCAA Tournament? Rarely? Then why is everybody here wasting their time starting and posting in threads asking for coach to get fired, how much money we have to pay for a replacement, or calling for DeVries to get hired?
I agree with you that coaches rarely lose their jobs immediately after a season in which they make the tourney.
I haven't argued for Fran to get the axe this year, for the most part because I absolutely don't want Barta getting the chance to make any more coaching selections.
As for wasting time on threads, that's more or less what a fan site message board is all about
Fair enough and I’ve never been a Barta fan either.I agree with you that coaches rarely lose their jobs immediately after a season in which they make the tourney.
I haven't argued for Fran to get the axe this year, for the most part because I absolutely don't want Barta getting the chance to make any more coaching selections.
As for wasting time on threads, that's more or less what a fan site message board is all about
It just gets a bit much for those of us who choose not to partake in that kind of posting and get told we have a “narrative”
Firing F Mc would be stupid. However, his tenure compares unfavorably with Dr. Davis' last nine season. The OP says it all.
Dr. Davis' last nine seasons featured five NCAA appearances with four trips to the second round and one Sweet 16, Iowa's last Sweet 16 twenty years ago. It was also plagued by some of the most dishonest officiating ever seen; the functional loss of the 2 of the 3 best players of that era (Jess Settles & Chris Street) and the worst snub by the NCAA probably ever.
F McC's nine seasons have featured three NCAA trips, once to the play in round and two regular invites. Those three trips produced two wins from two second round appearances. As things sit now we are an NIT team this season.
Dr. Davis' last nine seasons featured five NCAA appearances with four trips to the second round and one Sweet 16, Iowa's last Sweet 16 twenty years ago. It was also plagued by some of the most dishonest officiating ever seen; the functional loss of the 2 of the 3 best players of that era (Jess Settles & Chris Street) and the worst snub by the NCAA probably ever.
F McC's nine seasons have featured three NCAA trips, once to the play in round and two regular invites. Those three trips produced two wins from two second round appearances. As things sit now we are an NIT team this season.
Based on your repeated comments, you didn't seem to get it. That's all, didn't mean to get personal.
A month ago people were all behind Fran, or at least more behind him, because it looked like they had found the formula and left some of the past patterns behind. I was excited too.
That's looking like fool's gold after the train wreck of last few weeks. The same ol' stuff has returned. Bad defense, lackluster effort, Fran losing his shit. It's only been made worse by the Dolph controversy (that's not Fran's doing, but it does add to the fire) and our genius AD extending him with a prohibitive buyout.
If the team bounces back and makes a deep run in the B1G or a Sweet 16 in the NCAAs I think you'll see things swing back the other way. I'd love to see that happen.
If not...well, as Fran himself said "body of work".
Here is my issue. Of course emotions tend to swing as teams win and lose games. This particular board has people posting things like “This might be Fran’s best team” one day, then calling for his firing within the same month. Pretty laughable imo
How can you say Lohaus was a disappointment under Olson. He was a true freshman on a sweet 16 team playing behind Payne and Stokes. Davis did revive his career after Raveling but to say he was a disappointment under Olson makes no sense.
Understood, But I think it shows that they want to be optimistic and are willing to invest emotionally. They just don't like being fooled again. Firing Fran this year ain't gonna happen, nor should it if his team makes the NCAAs. But neither should he be virtually guaranteed another 3-4 years...which he effectively is.
No doubt, and you won’t catch me defending Barta. Not a fan.Understood, But I think it shows that they want to be optimistic and are willing to invest emotionally. They just don't like being fooled again. Firing Fran this year ain't gonna happen, nor should it if his team makes the NCAAs. But neither should he be virtually guaranteed another 3-4 years...which he effectively is.
Lohaus was villified by the fanbase as being inept and a waste of a scholarship. Couldn't post up with bigs-seemingly couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time. He even redshirted one of his years under Raveling. Davis found a way to utilize his abilities. He was lethal guarding the inbound pass-he was a major component of the full court press. Went from being a career 40% shooter to 54% under Davis. Played nearly as many minutes his last year as his career before that. Averaged 11 points and 8 rebounds. There is no way Lohaus would have had an NBA career if he hadn't met Davis. He has said so several times.
There are a lot of people that can't admit they were wrong about Davis. Hell I even was tired of some things related to his program. Recruiting was disappointing for sure. Someone made a comment about Settles earlier to the effect he was the symbol of Davis' tenure. I would take him back in a heartbeat. He was definitely limited athletically but he found ways to be productive. He also had a chronic back issue that limited his production. Davis' guys always played tough. Yes, other teams figured out how to beat the zone press but you could count on the team to mount a charge to get back into it nearly every game. Have Fran's teams done that? Rarely.
Davis did save Lohuas career. You said he was a disappointment under Olson. He was a true freshman under Olson. A 5th year senior under Davis.
I think vilified is a little strong. Many were skeptical of his abilities...but Lohaus was generally liked...at least until the whole Airliner thing.
Lol this post aged well. Worst nebby team I've seen in recent memory.. And choke away a 10+ point lead. On to another shit end to the season. What a joke
