Facilities: "Not going to find better setup in the country."

[OnceAhawk]

Problem: we have sent a lot of people to the NFL but what position do they play? Answer: OL and DL

For whatever reason, we struggle getting top notch, highly rated QBs, running backs and WR's to come to Iowa

And those kids in CA? They have to pay their own way on unofficial visits so they better really like Iowa to spend the money to pay for the visit

CA weather is better than midwest weather last I checked, too

Regardless, don't get me wrong; we have a lot of good things to sell; there are just some hurdles to get over, that's all.

KF has been at the helm 16 plus years and the last 5 have been mediocre; unless things really turn around this year, I don't see him surviving; he will have just 4 years left on that contract and a buyout is more plausible; this program needs a breath of fresh air, new energy, and new leadership; Ferentz Fatigue is real

17 years is a long time, folks....

Originally posted by doughudd:

Where do you think the 2nd best players from Cali go with UCLA, USC, Stanford




Re: Facilities: "Not going to find better setup in the country."[/URL]Pepperman posted on 4/17/2015...

Originally posted by OtayLake Hawkeye:

Damn rare are you going to find a kid willing to leave S. Cal etc. for Iowa. Chances are they'll stay local. We have 37 years of evidence, but damn your eyes. Iowa City is small change for many a kid. Realize it.

That's true for the very best kids in California, Texas, Florida, etc... but go get the second-best kids in these markets. They are still much better than some slow plodder that played Iowa 2A football and has offers from Buffalo, Central Michigan, and the Hawks.

Maybe sell the fact that Iowa plays its games on national television. Maybe sell the fact that (somehow) KF & Co have sent quite a few kids on to the NFL. Maybe get with the times and sell the fact that the program desperately needs talent and you can play early on? Well, maybe not since KF is out in public saying he thinks it would be a good idea for freshman to be ineligible.

The program just reeks of mediocrity, and most of us see it. If this post makes you think that I don't get it, please explain to me why schools like Wisconsin, Nebraska, or Kansas State can get kids to come there and Iowa can't?

 

[OtayLake Hawkeye]

Originally posted by ThatsFootball:

As far as the constant idea that players to not want to play in Iowa due to location, seems weird that Kirk was able to bring in a top 10 class during his tenure to poor little ol' Iowa. So my question is, did Iowa City, IA change after 2005, or did the perception of the program/coaches?

Really?

Really, this is your logic?

The one time we have a top 10 class and 4 of our top recruits were from Illinois & 1 from Minnesota. We got the #1 FB from Florida who left and never played a down, and the last guy was from Iowa City.

So no Iowa City did not change.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Originally posted by theIowaHawk:

Originally posted by Pepperman:
The program just reeks of mediocrity, and most of us see it. If this post makes you think that I don't get it, please explain to me why schools like Wisconsin, Nebraska, or Kansas State can get kids to come there and Iowa can't?

Maybe this is, in fact, your issue. Do you really think that Kansas State is routinely out-recruiting Iowa?

All from Rivals:
2015 - Iowa: 58, KSU: 45; KS had 2 more recruits total, both had 1 4*, KS had 1 more 3*. Iowa had a higher average ranking. (.01)
2014 - Iowa: 59, KSU: 47; KS had 1 more recruit total, both had 2 4*, KS had 1 more 3*.
2013 - Iowa: 53, KSU: 66; Iowa had 2 more recruit total, KSU had 2 more 4* but 8 less 3*, Iowa had a higher per average.

I won't even go back further, where Iowa consistently out-recruited KState.

Look, I'm not trying to convince anyone that Iowa's recruiting is up to snuff, it isn't, what I'm trying to educate on is the fact that Snyder is an amazing-mfing-coach, a hall of famer. Of course we all wish he was at Iowa, even at 75 years old. But Kansas State is not "getting kids to come" to Manhattan any more than Iowa is to Iowa City.

Yes, Wisconsin recruiting is beating Iowa, hell they've been in the Rose Bowl a lot recently, of course we are jealous, but they aren't recruiting to the point of, say, Ohio State, or even lesser SEC schools. Iowa outrecruited Wisconsin two years ago (per rivals ranking), three years ago, and four years ago.

Oh man....there's those pesky facts getting in the way of a perfectly good rant again...

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Originally posted by ThatsFootball:

Originally posted by OtayLake Hawkeye:

Originally posted by Pepperman:

Originally posted by OtayLake Hawkeye:

Damn rare are you going to find a kid willing to leave S. Cal etc. for Iowa. Chances are they'll stay local. We have 37 years of evidence, but damn your eyes. Iowa City is small change for many a kid. Realize it.

Maybe sell the fact that Iowa plays its games on national television. Maybe sell the fact that (somehow) KF & Co have sent quite a few kids on to the NFL. Maybe get with the times and sell the fact that the program desperately needs talent and you can play early on?

If you think that they dont, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe it is IOWA that they don't want to come to.

You think they are selling that? From the results I've seen lately, looks like some pitching, but not much selling.

As far as the constant idea that players to not want to play in Iowa due to location, seems weird that Kirk was able to bring in a top 10 class during his tenure to poor little ol' Iowa. So my question is, did Iowa City, IA change after 2005, or did the perception of the program/coaches?

Hmmm, I wonder if 3 consecutive top ten seasons with two B10 titles had anything to do with that. Replicate those results over the next three years and we'd have a pretty good shot at another top 10 or at least top 20 class.

 

[Pepperman]

Originally posted by Hwk-I-St8:

Originally posted by theIowaHawk:

Originally posted by Pepperman:
The program just reeks of mediocrity, and most of us see it. If this post makes you think that I don't get it, please explain to me why schools like Wisconsin, Nebraska, or Kansas State can get kids to come there and Iowa can't?

Maybe this is, in fact, your issue. Do you really think that Kansas State is routinely out-recruiting Iowa?

All from Rivals:
2015 - Iowa: 58, KSU: 45; KS had 2 more recruits total, both had 1 4*, KS had 1 more 3*. Iowa had a higher average ranking. (.01)
2014 - Iowa: 59, KSU: 47; KS had 1 more recruit total, both had 2 4*, KS had 1 more 3*.
2013 - Iowa: 53, KSU: 66; Iowa had 2 more recruit total, KSU had 2 more 4* but 8 less 3*, Iowa had a higher per average.

I won't even go back further, where Iowa consistently out-recruited KState.

Look, I'm not trying to convince anyone that Iowa's recruiting is up to snuff, it isn't, what I'm trying to educate on is the fact that Snyder is an amazing-mfing-coach, a hall of famer. Of course we all wish he was at Iowa, even at 75 years old. But Kansas State is not "getting kids to come" to Manhattan any more than Iowa is to Iowa City.

Yes, Wisconsin recruiting is beating Iowa, hell they've been in the Rose Bowl a lot recently, of course we are jealous, but they aren't recruiting to the point of, say, Ohio State, or even lesser SEC schools. Iowa outrecruited Wisconsin two years ago (per rivals ranking), three years ago, and four years ago.

Oh man....there's those pesky facts getting in the way of a perfectly good rant again...

Ok, I retract K-State from my list.

Please do explain why Nebraska and Wisconsin get around the geographical challenges. Don't make excuses. Iowa has won a BCS bowl in the last 6 years and also has more recent conference championships than Nebraska, so I don't think a lot of current recruits view their "tradition" as any different than Minnesota's. Speaking of, those Gophers seem to be on the rise.

So Iowa has the best facilities of any of the teams we've mentioned. Iowa puts a lot of players into the NFL (and it isn't just lineman, it is LB, CB, Safety, Tight End as well as OL and DL). Iowa has a great fanbase that will pack the stadium for a talented group of players. Iowa has a coach in his 16th year now. What is the problem?

 

[ThatsFootball]

Originally posted by Hwk-I-St8:

Originally posted by ThatsFootball:

Originally posted by OtayLake Hawkeye:

Originally posted by Pepperman:

Originally posted by OtayLake Hawkeye:

Damn rare are you going to find a kid willing to leave S. Cal etc. for Iowa. Chances are they'll stay local. We have 37 years of evidence, but damn your eyes. Iowa City is small change for many a kid. Realize it.

Maybe sell the fact that Iowa plays its games on national television. Maybe sell the fact that (somehow) KF & Co have sent quite a few kids on to the NFL. Maybe get with the times and sell the fact that the program desperately needs talent and you can play early on?

If you think that they dont, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe it is IOWA that they don't want to come to.

You think they are selling that? From the results I've seen lately, looks like some pitching, but not much selling.

As far as the constant idea that players to not want to play in Iowa due to location, seems weird that Kirk was able to bring in a top 10 class during his tenure to poor little ol' Iowa. So my question is, did Iowa City, IA change after 2005, or did the perception of the program/coaches?

Hmmm, I wonder if 3 consecutive top ten seasons with two B10 titles had anything to do with that. Replicate those results over the next three years and we'd have a pretty good shot at another top 10 or at least top 20 class.

Exactly. Thanks for agreeing with me. Nice to see others acknowledge that it is possible to recruit to Iowa, and your example of winning is definitely one of the many areas that can trump school location. Besides the winning/successful program aspect, things like energetic coaching staff, great facilities, loyal/passionate fanbase, NFL placement, and opportunities for early playing time are others that can be much more important to a recruit than where he resides for 4 years.

From the looks of your post, you agree with me that Iowa City didn't change since the 2005 class, the perception of the coaching staff and their ability to sell the programs success/future did. Thanks.

 

[Calhill]

Originally posted by Pepperman:

Originally posted by Hwk-I-St8:

Originally posted by theIowaHawk:

Originally posted by Pepperman:
The program just reeks of mediocrity, and most of us see it.  If this post makes you think that I don't get it, please explain to me why schools like Wisconsin, Nebraska, or Kansas State can get kids to come there and Iowa can't?

Maybe this is, in fact, your issue.  Do you really think that Kansas State is routinely out-recruiting Iowa?

All from Rivals:
2015 - Iowa: 58, KSU: 45; KS had 2 more recruits total, both had 1 4*, KS had 1 more 3*.  Iowa had a higher average ranking. (.01)
2014 - Iowa: 59, KSU: 47; KS had 1 more recruit total, both had 2 4*, KS had 1 more 3*.
2013 - Iowa: 53, KSU: 66; Iowa had 2 more recruit total, KSU had 2 more 4* but 8 less 3*, Iowa had a higher per average.

I won't even go back further, where Iowa consistently out-recruited KState.

Look, I'm not trying to convince anyone that Iowa's recruiting is up to snuff, it isn't, what I'm trying to educate on is the fact that Snyder is an amazing-mfing-coach, a hall of famer.  Of course we all wish he was at Iowa, even at 75 years old.  But Kansas State is not "getting kids to come" to Manhattan any more than Iowa is to Iowa City.

Yes, Wisconsin recruiting is beating Iowa, hell they've been in the Rose Bowl a lot recently, of course we are jealous, but they aren't recruiting to the point of, say, Ohio State, or even lesser SEC schools.  Iowa outrecruited Wisconsin two years ago (per rivals ranking), three years ago, and four years ago.

Oh man....there's those pesky facts getting in the way of a perfectly good rant again...

Ok, I retract K-State from my list.

Please do explain why Nebraska and Wisconsin get around the geographical challenges.  Don't make excuses.  Iowa has won a BCS bowl in the last 6 years and also has more recent conference championships than Nebraska, so I don't think a lot of current recruits view their "tradition" as any different than Minnesota's.  Speaking of, those Gophers seem to be on the rise.

So Iowa has the best facilities of any of the teams we've mentioned.  Iowa puts a lot of players into the NFL (and it isn't just lineman, it is LB, CB, Safety, Tight End as well as OL and DL).  Iowa has a great fanbase that will pack the stadium for a talented group of players.  Iowa has a coach in his 16th year now.  What is the problem?

The problem is our last 5 seasons and our foreseeable future.



Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Exactly. Thanks for agreeing with me. Nice to see others acknowledge that it is possible to recruit to Iowa, and your example of winning is definitely one of the many areas that can trump school location. Besides the winning/successful program aspect, things like energetic coaching staff, great facilities, loyal/passionate fanbase, NFL placement, and opportunities for early playing time are others that can be much more important to a recruit than where he resides for 4 years.

From the looks of your post, you agree with me that Iowa City didn't change since the 2005 class, the perception of the coaching staff and their ability to sell the programs success/future did. Thanks.

Yep. So the question is how do you recapture the excitement of 3 top ten finishes without getting 3 top ten finishes....and how do you get them without the recruiting. Chicken and the egg, my friend. The interesting thing is that those top ten finishes came without top tier recruits...so at one time at least, we had the staff to break that glass ceiling. I'm not sure our current staff can do it.

Many people will just say "fire the coach, hire someone new". Sometimes you get a recruiting boost, sometimes not. Sometimes when you get the recruiting boost, you still don't do better because the coach can recruit but can't coach. Ask Indiana and Illinois about that. The Zooker could recruit, but they still sucked. Indiana saw a huge recruiting boost with their last hire, but the on field results have not come.

Many teams end up on the new coach carousel chasing that elusive coach that can recruit and coach and will stick around. Many suck for decades because they can't find a coach worthy of getting off the carousel or they find one and he uses them as a stepping stone.

 

[Pepperman]

The interesting thing is that those top ten finishes came without top tier recruits...so at one time at least, we had the staff to break that glass ceiling. I'm not sure our current staff can do it.

Many teams end up on the new coach carousel chasing that elusive coach that can recruit and coach and will stick around. Many suck for decades because they can't find a coach worthy of getting off the carousel or they find one and he uses them as a stepping stone.

Regarding the first point, you're absolutely correct. There was an article written on this by BHGP, if I remember correctly. In the early 2000s, what Iowa was doing in strength and conditioning was cutting edge. Ferentz and Doyle were a step ahead of the competition in what workouts they were focusing on, what lifts and motions mattered the most, etc. Now the rest of the country has caught up with this and Iowa no longer has that advantage. Recruiting has also changed a lot with social media, better video quality, and all of the services that track these kids. It is almost impossible to find a diamond in the rough now. So put these two together, and what you have is a real problem for this staff. They won't find those hidden gems nearly as much, and they don't have the edge anymore with S&C.

Regarding the second point, that is a risk and things certainly could be worse... but I would not overestimate that risk. First off, Iowa has enough money to hire a proven winner that is both a good coach AND recruiter. Secondly, with the new facilities, even an average recruiting coach/staff should have success as long as the Xs and Os are there to win games and play a more exciting brand of football.