Glory with you have to ride a rider mentality. He sure knows how to wrench a neck, I’ll give him that. Also, horrible officiating. Guess who it was? He made lee work harder for all of his back points and cheated him out of 2. And how was that not a danger call? Because he’s hanging onto a choke? Honest question because I never wrestled with the rule. Anyway, glory is a big, strong 25 lber with some scrambling ability. Lee would’ve beat him but I think he’d have respected him and played it smart and controlled. This match was much worse than I remember in a lot of ways.
For those who didn’t get to see lee vs glory midlands
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Glory with you have to ride a rider mentality. He sure knows how to wrench a neck, I’ll give him that. Also, horrible officiating. Guess who it was? He made lee work harder for all of his back points and cheated him out of 2. And how was that not a danger call? Because he’s hanging onto a choke? Honest question because I never wrestled with the rule. Anyway, glory is a big, strong 25 lber with some scrambling ability. Lee would’ve beat him but I think he’d have respected him and played it smart and controlled. This match was much worse than I remember in a lot of ways.
It wasn't a danger call because they weren't in neutral. Glory was still on top and therefore could expose his back.
Definitely some dicey moments for Spencer here. Glory is very dangerous. He was very close to planting Spencer when he stepped over that front headlock. If Spencer reacts a split second slower, he's done.
I'd like to see Spencer take a more controlled approach with him next time. He has the potential to tech him quick with his turns, but if he doesn't get all the way to 15 before his sprint ends, Glory is a guy that can make him pay with big moves when he's tired.
I think Spencer was starting to figure out his pacing at big tens. Against tough guys, he built some momentum with takedowns which left him fresher in the middle and end of the match than when he squeezed and tried to crank guys over for 4 minutes straight. I loved his semi and finals match in this respect.
This weekend was not a good weekend for Spencer and he wrestled no where near where we have seen him go. I wouldn't put much if anything into any matches on that weekend and focus more on who we saw from the middle of this year onward. Glory is dangerous and a good wrestler, but a healthy, clicking on all cylinders Lee, is going to be a bad match for Glory just as it was in the first match they wrestled. Also, I wouldn't call what Lee did in the semis or finals of Big 10's pacing...what we're you watching? Lee worked hard the entire match against a guy ranked 6th in the nation and was something like 26-4. Lee's 3rd period was every bit as active and intense as the first and matter of fact he scored 10 points in the 3rd period of the Big 10 Finals. This is a tired sentiment that needs to be put to rest. I didn't see Lee any less aggressive against Suriano or Mueller in the NCAA Finals and he sure looked fine against a strong NATO and VITO this year, also late in matches. People forget that during that particular tournament Tom Brands cited Spencer was dealing with some issues and as we all know--Iowa never discloses details.
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Yeah this was last year, they didn’t wrestle this year and Lee was a different wrestler this year.
I don't think you quite understood my point. A lot of Lee's conditioning issues are because he works so hard to turn his opponent in the first period. His style of riding takes a tremendous amount of energy. He's not just throwing a leg in and eating clock. He's cranking a a guy's wrist underneath him, securing it, rolling through across his own back, and holding him for 4 seconds all while the opponent is bellied out and fighting his hands. Doing this for 2-3 minutes straight will exhaust even the best conditioned athletes, no matter how easy he makes it look.
When I talk about pacing, I'm talking about him wrestling with some ebb and flow instead of squeezing a guy for 3 minutes straight on top. When he goes catch and release, even though he's always working to score, he's not tensing every muscle in his body at full go the entire time. It's a lot more forgiving on his lungs, especially because of how clean his technique is, leading to easy finishes. It also demands more energy from his opponent, who instead of laying on his belly, is forced to move and defend.
The two matches against Medley from Michigan are a perfect example. In the first match, Lee spent the entire first period trying to crank Medley over. It took a lot out of him and he only got a two point tilt out of it. By the third, he was very tired and ended up not getting bonus because of it. Contrast that to the big tens match. Instead of spending all of his energy early on top, he went catch and release, built a good rhythm, and demolished Medley. He was up 12-3 in the first before he really made a serious attempt on top, and his turn came a lot easier at this point.
Tom makes this point with Marinelli a lot too. Sometimes he gets too locked in on trying to pin guys early when they're fresh when he should focus on building his lead, wearing him down, and then looking to pin. I think that's the adjustment Spencer made at Big Tens. He wasn't just locked in to wrestling on top. If you get a takedown in the first 10 seconds, but you spend the next 2 minutes trying to turn a guy and spend a ton of energy for nothing, why not just go catch and release and build your lead there? I think he needed to be reminded that he's way better than everyone on his feet too.
I wouldn't be disappointed if I never saw Lee go under another wrestler the rest of his collegiate career. I'm not saying he is bad there, but if there are struggles, that's where they emerge. Besides he's the best and most exciting top/neutral wrestler in the game. Furthermore, freestyle Olympic gold is his ultimate goal. A style in which bottom wrestling carries zero importance. Keep him on his feet, let him turn guys and keep fans who have no relevance, like myself, entertained. Just my $.02
Glory sorta just slapped on an amateur Guillotine choke in half gaurd. LOL
And regarding the rideout. I will acknowledge that Glory is tough on top, but too me it just seems Spencer just didn't like try too do anything there too get out. Its strange too say the best guy in the nation would pack it in like that (albeit while winning handily and knowing that cheap tilts is Glorys only hope too win, so maybe thats it)
And regarding the rideout. I will acknowledge that Glory is tough on top, but too me it just seems Spencer just didn't like try too do anything there too get out. Its strange too say the best guy in the nation would pack it in like that (albeit while winning handily and knowing that cheap tilts is Glorys only hope too win, so maybe thats it)
No. Your point is wrong. No. Spencer has health issues causing him to fade. Not issues caused by working too hard in first period. You are just plain wrong and I don’t have to read the above novel to know it.
Spencer was sick. The tired state wasn’t normal.
He could have tried to play it close and conserve energy for third. But he was going to fade no matter how he wrestled. He was sick. If he played it close early in a match and faded as was expected due to nature of illness, he risked getting beat late. His best chance to win was to give it all he had and try to hang on in the end. He is far more skilled than most opponents. I see his strategy as the best of bad options if he wanted to compete and win. Which he did.
He could have tried to play it close and conserve energy for third. But he was going to fade no matter how he wrestled. He was sick. If he played it close early in a match and faded as was expected due to nature of illness, he risked getting beat late. His best chance to win was to give it all he had and try to hang on in the end. He is far more skilled than most opponents. I see his strategy as the best of bad options if he wanted to compete and win. Which he did.
Lol was Spencer sick this year for the Chatanooga, Michigan, and OSU duals? He gassed in all 3 of those matches.
If you had bothered to read, you would have known I was talking about this past year, not last year when he was sick.
A lot of fans want convince themselves that the sky is green with this. He gets tired in the third period sometimes. Usually he's up by double digits at that point. Those two things aren't unrelated. It takes a lot of energy to score that many points against tough opponents.
Going to have to agree with this. Even as one of the biggest Spencer Lee supporters around. He’s human and does get tired at times. His bottom “struggles” are due to fatigue imo. No matter the reasons behind the fatigue (which I know have varied and differed year to year). He looks like he’s just taking a breather after whooping on a dude for the entire first/second period. Nothing wrong with that. When he wrestles to destroy, sometimes he over exerts himself. When he wrestles like 99% of the rest of the field, he wins comfortably. Also, thanks for the clarification on danger rule.
Please tell me more about Lee's bottom struggles... He has given up one set of back points in 70 matches and is virtually automatic at getting off bottom. Are you kidding me. What are you watching? The mighty Lizak rode lee for about 30 seconds.... Also, look at the matches Lee was wrestling tough late.... Every wrestler is human and yes, they do wrestle sick sometimes and they do wrestle hurt, because, yes, they are human. Kemmer was one stall call away from being disqualified in a match--I guess he should pace himself. OSU duals, he beat a guy that had 18 bonus point wins and was something like 25-1 by a score of 12-3. He also beat him at the last NCAA Tournament and was still scoring points in the 3rd. For the three matches you show that he struggled late, I can show you 8 or 9 that he didn't--he put up 10 points in the Big 10 finals and yes he worked hard for a turn in the 3rd. I do agree that I loved his second match with the Michigan wrestler, not because he decided to pace himself, but because he took what was being given to him. That Michigan guy is really good at basing out and doing nothing and the wrong referee can let that happen, so let him up and take him down and tech him. I think that a Lee, with that mindset is a much more dangerous wrestler and that was a huge step in his development. Not because it's pacing--but because he's taken what's being given to him and using all of his skills better. When you have the attitude that "I can turn anybody" it's easy to waste time against a strong opponent that is happy with stalling. Even the Big 10 announcers were saying "better to give up stall points than a 4-point turn." You're trying to make a point, but your reasons why in my opinion are way off reality and doesn't reflect a good understanding of the sport. I'm done and no reason to continue with this thread.
My apologies. My grammar sucks. Let me rephrase.
"If Lee had chosen up then it would have been a tech in a few seconds."
Hard to listen to lol. Had to mute that. Is glory really a big 125er or is Spencer just not very big? He's usually the smaller man when I've seen him.
Prot tip: if you're going to question somebody's intelligence, try not to do it with such a jumbled mess.
You actually ended up agreeing with my point though you don't realize it. "I do agree that I loved his second match with the Michigan wrestler, not because he decided to pace himself, but because he took what was being given to him." This is exactly what I am talking about. Don't get tunnel vision about the word "pacing." I never said he should stop wrestling, just that he shouldn't wear himself out on top when it's not there.
The defensiveness around Spencer is a little weird guys. He is a human being after all. If you set super-human expectations for him, he's only going to disappoint you. Not fair to him. He can get tired sometimes and still be one of the best ever.
Stating facts isn’t defensiveness and your inability to comprehend wrestling matches and those accurately describing Spencer’s wrestling won’t help your poorly supported argument
As long as he gets his hand raised scoring points for Iowa, I'm good with whatever happens during the match. Tired, appears tired but may not be, fresh, appears fresh but may not be, don't care. And if he gets beat, he gets beat. It happens to the best of them.
This is correct (except for the Picc pin). The only time I remember Spencer having a tough time getting out was against Mueller. Even then, he didn't give up a RT point and was able to get Mueller to give up a stalling point in a cagey sequence plus still had a net + on top. I don't know where the "struggles from bottom" schtick is coming from.
Simple question: Was Spencer tired in the Chatanooga, Michigan, and Ok State duals this year? If so, why?
I don't agree with it, but it's not completely out of nowhere. He has been ridden a few times. Rivera rode him out in their first meeting, which completely changed the momentum of that match (Spencer was outscored 4-1 after the first period). Glory rode him really hard in the match that started this thread. He actually scored 2 sets of nearfall in this match. Obviously, Mueller as you noted. Medley put a decent ride on him in their first match.
Spencer is solid on bottom and it's not an issue of concern. I do think it gives opponents a chance to get back in the match sometimes, or at least slow him down. When you score takedowns and turns so easily, why waste your time and energy on bottom? No reason to mess around down there against guys like Mueller or Glory.
Yep. And if you read the interviews you would know that the medical condition experienced was expected to maybe affect him for years.
The entire team was training through the Chatt meet as well. It’s like some people have no idea how wrestling works at the D1 level
Beyond parody at this point lol. Now he has a chronic condition that causes him to gas randomly? This is like when doomsday cults reach the day the world is supposed to end, it doesn't end, and they just double down.
Why was he able to wrestle the entire US Open at a steady pace without any sign of fatigue? Do you think it had anything to do with the fact he wasn't spending 3-4 minutes straight keeping elite athletes on their belly with nothing more than a tightwaist? Do you know how hard and how much energy that takes? Go to your local gym and hop on the cable crossover station. Set the weight close to your maximum ability and start doing chest flies with 10-15 second holds and see how long you last before you can't feel your arms or breathe.
Okay throw out the Chatanooga match. It was the first of the season after all. And assume that the team was training through the Michigan and Ok State meet (training through Ok State??? lol). You still have come up with a reason for why Spencer gassed and the rest of the team didn't. Even if that's the reason, it still means he felt the effect of it much more than the rest of the team.
Can I get a link to those interviews btw? I'm pretty sure an interview about him having a chronic, years long health issue would have been pretty big news in the wrestling world.
Lol, I rest my case. Not going to waste time arguing with people who won't admit the sky is blue.
maybe waste some time researching the term, or actually maybe wrestle a few matches yourself to see what ‘gassed’ really means. Until then stfu
At the US Open? His quarters match with NCAA champ Cruz went 4 minutes. His semi against Arujau went 5 minutes and was incredibly high paced with tons of scrambles. His finals match with Tomasello, who is notorious for his big tank, went the full 6. Don't act like he just went out there and laced everybody for 30 seconds and walked off the mat. He had 3 tough matches.
In all 3 of these matches, Spencer showed no signs of fatigue and wrestled a steady high scoring pace. Arujau and Tomasello both wrestle high paces and he had no problems whatsoever. It was his best career performance alongside his freshman year NCAAs.
LEE piss pounds everyone from here on out!
IF there is someone who wants to lay money on glory or ANYONE else? Please let me know??
IF there is someone who wants to lay money on glory or ANYONE else? Please let me know??
I don't think anybody on this board is taking that action lol. More interesting bet would be the spread and/or if Glory manages an offensive point this time around.
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