Fran's Big 10 finishes

[HawkIDrummer]

A team with one non-starting senior is not a “veteran” team.

This team is not loaded with Seniors, but it is loaded with guys who are in their third year as starters or getting significant minutes in the rotation. I posted the minutes/game of this team over the last 3 years awhile back (don't have the time to dig it up now or re-compile the data). Cook, JBo, Baer, Moss, Pemsl, Dailey, have logged plenty of minutes since the fall of 2016. This is a very experienced team.

I'm sure there's a website out there somewhere that measures this metric. My guess is if you compared the experience (minutes played) of the starting lineups or rosters in the B1G, Iowa would be near the top.

 

[HawkInArk]

This team is not loaded with Seniors, but it is loaded with guys who are in their third year as starters or getting significant minutes in the rotation. I posted the minutes/game of this team over the last 3 years awhile back (don't have the time to dig it up now or re-compile the data). Cook, JBo, Baer, Moss, Pemsl, Dailey, have logged plenty of minutes since the fall of 2016. This is a very experienced team.

I'm sure there's a website out there somewhere that measures this metric. My guess is if you compared the experience (minutes played) of the starting lineups or rosters in the B1G, Iowa would be near the top.

Not sure why this had to be explained, but it did. Thank you.

 

[Mohawkeye]

This team is not loaded with Seniors, but it is loaded with guys who are in their third year as starters or getting significant minutes in the rotation. I posted the minutes/game of this team over the last 3 years awhile back (don't have the time to dig it up now or re-compile the data). Cook, JBo, Baer, Moss, Pemsl, Dailey, have logged plenty of minutes since the fall of 2016. This is a very experienced team.

I'm sure there's a website out there somewhere that measures this metric. My guess is if you compared the experience (minutes played) of the starting lineups or rosters in the B1G, Iowa would be near the top.

Big difference between seniors and everyone else. We also start a freshman and a sophomore. I don’t consider any team without a senior starting a veteran team. I don’t have the time to research it, but I’m sure there is a website that shows teams without senior starters don’t win conference titles. This is a team of average experience.

 

[2432Hawk]

What was Dr Tom’s record in his 8th season at Iowa? 11-16 (5-13)



It’s strange that Fran’s teams at Iowa have struggled in Feb and March. His teams at Siena played their best ball in February and March.

Yeah the rigours of the MAAC are so much like the rigours of the BigTen

I think is fair to say that the physical and mental toughness can be questioned in the late season swoons as can Fran's ability to adjust to how teams defend them different the 2nd go around perhaps? But there is so much more that can possibly play factor. Injuries, sickness, travel and short turn around, when the bye week falls in the conf. season....

I mean most of us saw then end of year schedule and knew that was going to be a tough stretch even before the season tipped off.

 

[2432Hawk]

What makes this years finish so bad is who the Hawks lost to .
OSU: 0-3 since they best Iowa
Rutgers: 0-2 since they beat Iowa
Nebraska: They had lost 4 straight before beating Iowa.
Not exactly losing to good teams or hot teams.

OSU since they beat Iowa, playing without leading scorer and rebounder
Rutgers was 2-2 coming into Iowa City and the 2 losses were Wieskamps buzzer beater, and at MSU where they lead most of the game but got blitzed late (who hasn't seen that?)
I see you conveniently left Wisconsin off the list
Nebraska will give you but their last 3 games prior were to the Top 3 BigTen Teams. At MSU, At Michigan, and home vs. Purdue (whom they almost beat)

I think it is fair to say that the BigTen was a meat grinder this year for a lot of teams.

 

[NI hawk]

OSU since they beat Iowa, playing without leading scorer and rebounder
Rutgers was 2-2 coming into Iowa City and the 2 losses were Wieskamps buzzer beater, and at MSU where they lead most of the game but got blitzed late (who hasn't seen that?)
I see you conveniently left Wisconsin off the list
Nebraska will give you but their last 3 games prior were to the Top 3 BigTen Teams. At MSU, At Michigan, and home vs. Purdue (whom they almost beat)

I think it is fair to say that the BigTen was a meat grinder this year for a lot of teams.

I left Wisconsin off because I do not expect Iowa to beat Wisconsin at Wisconsin. I do expect Iowa to beat a 12th seed at home and a 13th seed on the road. I was not shocked by OSU loss, but do not expect to give up 90 points to a offensively challenged team. OSU put up 50 against 14th place Northwestern.
Hopefully the next 10 days put hawk fans in a better mood.

 

[2432Hawk]

I left Wisconsin off because I do not expect Iowa to beat Wisconsin at Wisconsin. I do expect Iowa to beat a 12th seed at home and a 13th seed on the road. I was not shocked by OSU loss, but do not expect to give up 90 points to a offensively challenged team. OSU put up 50 against 14th place Northwestern.
Hopefully the next 10 days put hawk fans in a better mood.

When did we become so entiteled to think that we should be expected to beat anyone? You have to earn it each night in the BigTen. There are no gimmies. Ask MSU about that, they lost some games at home to bottom dwellers as well.... and they are co-champs.

 

[mikesright]

A team with one non-starting senior is not a “veteran” team.

The days of starting a team full of seniors who could lead your team to tournament wins is largely an exinct past. None of the most competitive power 5 teams have a lot of seniors except for Tennessee. And they are pretty much a miracle

 

[Mohawkeye]

The days of starting a team full of seniors who could lead your team to tournament wins is largely an exinct past. None of the most competitive power 5 teams have a lot of seniors except for Tennessee. And they are pretty much a miracle

That’s a little different issue. Really depends on the model, whether you recruit 5 stars or have to develop your talent. MSU recruits 5 star players and they go to the NBA before they are seniors. Wisconsin has a 5th year senior starting and they depend on developing talent every year. All of the best Iowa teams have always had multiple senior starters: Woody/Gessell/Clemmons/Uthoff; Horner/Bruner/Haluska(4th year jr).

 

[HawkIDrummer]

That’s a little different issue. Really depends on the model, whether you recruit 5 stars or have to develop your talent. MSU recruits 5 star players and they go to the NBA before they are seniors. Wisconsin has a 5th year senior starting and they depend on developing talent every year. All of the best Iowa teams have always had multiple senior starters: Woody/Gessell/Clemmons/Uthoff; Horner/Bruner/Haluska(4th year jr).

You're really gonna cling to this excuse aren't ya?

 

[Mohawkeye]

You're really gonna cling to this excuse aren't ya?

What excuse?

 

[HawkIDrummer]

What excuse?

that you MUST have a team heavy with Seniors to win, and since IOWA doesn't having starting Seniors...well, give 'em a break.

Look at your posts in this thread.

 

[Mohawkeye]

that you MUST have a team heavy with Seniors to win, and since IOWA doesn't having starting Seniors...well, give 'em a break.

Look at your posts in this thread.

But I never said that and it wasn’t the the topic of my posts. Quote me.

 

[bdcolt45er]

NCAA tourney results are far more important to me than B1G finish.

He can average 7th place for his entire tenure at Iowa and I'd be OK with it if there are a few sweet 16s and an elite 8 thrown in.

2 first round NCAA wins in 8 years is not sufficient.

I think this is what makes NCAA basketball so bizarre. To me the grind of the big 10 season is a much better indication of team quality and coaching ability than tourney games. Tourney success is often attributable to a fortunate match-up or draw. For a team like Iowa most people see sweet 16 as a success. So essentially you're deciding whether the season is a success based on 2 games.

 

[RocknRollface]

Honestly I could live with the B1G finishes but the March fades, 0 hope for the BTT and less than 0 shot Fran ever wins a 2nd round game are too much. Grind through the regular season and catch fire in March maybe once or twice to this point and I am not anti-Fran. Prove you can't get a team to finish or rally through adversity over 9 years and be completely anemic in the BTT for 9 years....sorry Fran you peaked about 6 years ago.

Yep, I can think of 2 maybe 3 times on that list Iowa was playing good basketball by the end of the year. Gatens, Whites and Jok senior seasons and only 1 of those was an NCAA season.

Besides that they are almost always playing their worst ball of the season come tournament time.

 

[HawkInArk]

But I never said that and it wasn’t the the topic of my posts. Quote me.

OVERALL, this is a veteran team. Period.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Question on every bodies mind is, can it get better or have we seen fran’s ceiling.

The question on my mind is, can someone else do better? Or, is the Iowa Basketball ceiling?

I'm ready to find out - give someone else a try. But he's not going anywhere for at least a couple of years.

 

[milehighhawkeye24]

How many championships? How many sweet 16s??

Has Fran ever seen Saturday of the Big Ten Tournament?

Lot of mediocrity in that list, he recovered the program after the LICK mess, but someone needs to come in and advance it.

It’s not just Fran- we have mediocre facilities and a mediocre fan base due to Alford and Lick Years. We need to do our part as fans too, news flash- Frans not going anywhere so either get on board or get off. Tough to get too recruits when the place is 1/2 empty....I understand but we should get behind these guys IMO, especially since there are a lot of Iowa boys playing. Never understood the I don’t like coach so I’m not supporting and if that’s your choice fine, but don’t come on here bitching and trying to round up a possse

 

[Walleye70]

I think cook and moss finally figured out they are never going to sniff the nba and they lost their motivation

 

[HawkIDrummer]

HawkinArk said that there was no excuse for a veteran team like this to fall apart like it has. You responded that this wasn't a veteran team, defining veteran by the number of seniors... ignoring the "minutes played" angle...which is a valid indicator of a team's experience/cohesiveness/etc. A core group of guys starting together for 3 years is pretty experienced (or veteran...you can split hairs on the terminology all you want).

Bottom line, you inferred that this team wasn't highly experienced to undermine HawkinArk's point...thus the "making excuses" comment.

This is a team with plenty of experience and he's right. They should be way past the fragile newcomer phase. But they aren't...and it shows.

 

[RocknRollface]

The question on my mind is, can someone else do better? Or, is the Iowa Basketball ceiling?

I'm ready to find out - give someone else a try. But he's not going anywhere for at least a couple of years.

Of course some one else could do better.

Fran could have done better if he had been smarter with his recruiting in the early stages.

 

[RocknRollface]

HawkinArk said that there was no excuse for a veteran team like this to fall apart like it has. You responded that this wasn't a veteran team, defining veteran by the number of seniors... ignoring the "minutes played" angle...which is a valid indicator of a team's experience/cohesiveness/etc. A core group of guys starting together for 3 years is pretty experienced (or veteran...you can split hairs on the terminology all you want).

Bottom line, you inferred that this team wasn't highly experienced to undermine HawkinArk's point...thus the "making excuses" comment.

This is a team with plenty of experience and he's right. They should be way past the fragile newcomer phase. But they aren't...and it shows.

In today's college basketball you don't get much more veteran than what Iowa is.

 

[JAMAM]

How many championships? How many sweet 16s??

Has Fran ever seen Saturday of the Big Ten Tournament?

Lot of mediocrity in that list, he recovered the program after the LICK mess, but someone needs to come in and advance it.

Every team but Iowa in the B1G has made a Quarterfinal appearance in the B1G tourney during Fran's tenure, except Fran. If that isn't proof of his inadequacy tell me what is? His teams struggle at the most important times of the year, Tournament time!

 

[hexumhawk]

How many championships? How many sweet 16s??

Has Fran ever seen Saturday of the Big Ten Tournament?

Lot of mediocrity in that list, he recovered the program after the LICK mess, but someone needs to come in and advance it.

This is my point exactly. He is good at rebuilding programs, not great at taking them above middle ground. I guess if you are ok with that as a fan then you want to keep him, if you arent and think we can be more, lets let him go.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Big difference between seniors and everyone else. We also start a freshman and a sophomore. I don’t consider any team without a senior starting a veteran team. I don’t have the time to research it, but I’m sure there is a website that shows teams without senior starters don’t win conference titles. This is a team of average experience.

And whose fault is it that our only senior is Baer? Plenty of teams will do damage in the tournament with underclassmen. Ellingson, Williams, Wagner, Hutton, Fleming were all kids Fran invested multiple years in that yielded little value. When you miss on multiple classes and have limited player development and choose to not bring transfers this is what happens. Next year the excuse will be lots of new guys with limited PT. It's about building a roster of complimentary pieces not recruiting a roster full of guys with the same gaps.

 

[HawkIDrummer]

The best thing Fran has going for him, was following Lick. Nowhere to go but up. He has improved the footing of the program significantly, no doubt. He's also shown he has some pretty clear flaws which tend to repeat themselves.

So 9 years in (NINE years, people aren't saying dump the guy after his 3rd or 4th season) people are bound to be fatigued. Add in an AD who basically tied our hands for another 3-4 years and you have a formula for discontent.

A coach who's at one place that long should have a few brag points in his folder. Fran's is an NIT runner up 6 years ago.

 

[Crazy Hawk]

This is my point exactly. He is good at rebuilding programs, not great at taking them above middle ground. I guess if you are ok with that as a fan then you want to keep him, if you arent and think we can be more, lets let him go.

This was my concern when Fran was hired. At the time I didn't care and was excited because rebuilding was his specialty and that is exactly what Iowa needed. His stops as a head coach have always been at a small school where he gets them to the tournament, then he moved on to another rebuild mid-major school. Now he is at a Power 5 school and he did just that. This is all new waters for him and it shows.....and he isn't coaching against other schools that for the most part, have consistent long term head coaches. His inability to adapt to recruiting, other coaches and all other struggles that come with being at a Power 5 school is being exposed. Perhaps his inability to adapt his philosophies is one major reason why he didn't have another Power 5 head coaching gig before Iowa...especially at his age.

 

[hexumhawk]

This was my concern when Fran was hired. At the time I didn't care and was excited because rebuilding was his specialty and that is exactly what Iowa needed. His stops as a head coach have always been at a small school where he gets them to the tournament, then he moved on to another rebuild mid-major school. Now he is at a Power 5 school and he did just that. This is all new waters for him and it shows.....and he isn't coaching against other schools that for the most part, have consistent long term head coaches. His inability to adapt to recruiting, other coaches and all other struggles that come with being at a Power 5 school is being exposed. Perhaps his inability to adapt his philosophies is one major reason why he didn't have another Power 5 head coaching gig before Iowa...especially at his age.

I would agree with all of this. He has really struggled to close the deal on his first and second targets with recruiting and we get stuck behind the 8 ball with some players that should probably not be BIG10 caliber. He has been great at identifying talent before the big boys but bad at closing the deal. Secondly, I would agree with the second part about adapting your coaching philosophies. Iowa BB reminds me a little of a Texas Tech FB program. Can score on anyone but cant stop anyone...which in the long run ensures you are never going to a championship caliber team when you only do one phase well. I would think he would take a long look at revamping our defense and maybe bring in a different assistant or two that were recruiting/defense oriented.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

I think this is what makes NCAA basketball so bizarre. To me the grind of the big 10 season is a much better indication of team quality and coaching ability than tourney games. Tourney success is often attributable to a fortunate match-up or draw. For a team like Iowa most people see sweet 16 as a success. So essentially you're deciding whether the season is a success based on 2 games.

Actually, I think it's relatively straight forward. The ultimate goal is to compete for the NCAA championship. As in every other sport, the preparation that is done prior to the season and in season is in service to that.
If Fran's priorities are different, as to the most important/highest priority being preparation for and performance in the NCAA tourney, then he should never should have been offered the job in the first place.

 

[Mohawkeye]

And whose fault is it that our only senior is Baer? Plenty of teams will do damage in the tournament with underclassmen. Ellingson, Williams, Wagner, Hutton, Fleming were all kids Fran invested multiple years in that yielded little value. When you miss on multiple classes and have limited player development and choose to not bring transfers this is what happens. Next year the excuse will be lots of new guys with limited PT. It's about building a roster of complimentary pieces not recruiting a roster full of guys with the same gaps.

Fran’s fault. I never said otherwise.

 

[danloney]

18-19 6
17-18 11
16-17 5
15-16 3
14-15 3
13-14 6
12-13 6
11-12 7
10-11 Doesn't count...he took over a train wreck

Six top 6 finishes and only 1 bad year.

And Barta gave him an extension?

Hopefully the OP doesn’t work in public relations, advertising or promotions in the real world. It’s best to not bring up the overall body of work I’m thinking. It’s not horrible. But it’s very pedestrian and doesn’t get 90 percent of our fan base chillin for more Iowa hoops.

And Barta gave Fran a secret contract extension? He ought to be fired for gross negligence!!!