Thing is, you could get better results from generic republican X than Trump produced. And you can’t include democracy on that list with a straight face if you’re pro-Trump here.
Issues matter. So does character. And Trump has none.
GA Audit Finds Tens of Noncitizens Registered To Vote
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Issues matter. So does character. And Trump has none.
Because we haven't done an audit of that, because the right is wasting time and money on this basically non-existent problem
This is their game tho, make accusations that you can’t ever 100% disprove, ignore the various safeguards in place already, etc.
Whoever said issues don’t matter?
If Trump could solve the deficit/debt problem, stop the interference in women’s healthcare, reduce inflation, stop sending billions of dollars overseas, fix immigration, etc. etc., then maybe, just maybe I could vote for him.
The problem is the POTUS can fix none of those on his own. So, at the very least, the POTUS should represent himself and the presidency of the United States honorably and respectfully. He/she should respect and uphold the Constitution of the United States, believing the American system of government is more important than him or herself. That is the very baseline, low bar that should be set that shouldn’t be negotiable.
Trump is the antithesis to all of that. He’s already proven he doesn’t care about anything or anyone beyond himself and that he hasn’t the first clue about the Constitution let alone feeling any sort of obligation to uphold and defend it. Thus, it is completely unacceptable for any American who cares about our democratic republic to support Trump.
I am an American first and former Republican now Independent second. It’s unfortunate not enough Americans see it that way, but personal interests have superseded principled values for a long time now. Thus, we get the government we deserve.
America had its "character" election in 2000. They chose George W Bush to "restore integrity to the White House." You know, the guy who lied us into 2 criminal wars, ran up the deficit with tax giveaways to the rich, blocked climate action, and plunged the world into the Great Recession.
Afghanistan was justified....it just wouldn't have been botched when we went into Iraq
Going after Al Qaeda was justified. Invading and occupying the whole country of Afghanistan wasn't.
Well, when the Taliban not turning them over forced the US to do that
Well see that's the thing, I don't view that episode as a coup attempt,.. but we likely will never agree on that.
The Taliban offered to turn bin Laden over to an intermediary (probably Pakistan) but Bush rejected the offer.
But even if they hadn't that doesn't make invading and occupying the nation right.
Nobody was going to object to us hitting the AQ training camps. Which we did in short order. Maybe some other things. But invasion and occupation?
Besides, let's not get totally sidetracked on one small part of the list of indictments against W. The point was that America doesn't care about integrity, or character, or honor. If we did, Nader would have had a couple of terms as president - while W and Trump would have had none.
I know what you meant,.. and I would immediately accept any other Republican candidate in place of what we have, but in the absence of that, my choices regarding president are Trump or a no vote.
Please tell us all who the magical liberal is that would actually garner your support over Trump? That way we know who to run if our plans to steal 2024 don't work.
No, he should have been turned over to us, post haste....and when we took up with the Northern Alliance, that automatically made the US enemies to the Taliban
You likely wouldn't even view them as Democrats,.. but something in the vein of a Joe Lieberman or Joe Manchin could get my vote given the current shit show...
George Bush on his worst day has 10x the character that Trump has.
You’re explaining that he had bad policies, I agree. I don’t think bush himself is a bad person, but he allowed himself to be twisted into believing the ends justified the means.
Fair enough, I misread your post.
Should have pulled out immediately after Tora Bora...
Right.
I’m asking is there a line that could be crossed that would compel you not to vote Trump.
I will be contemplating that over the next 12 days,.. the possibility of a no vote is still in play, and he is definitely a moving target.
All our stated objectives except catching Osama were achieved in the first year. We could have kept looking for him (and did) as long as it took without being an occupying force.
It became very obvious very quickly that nobody in the bush administration had any plans for what happened after they won on the ground, both there and in Iraq.
“Nation-building” was a disastrous foreign policy.
So not a dealbreaker.
Nor was his attempted extortion of an ally by withholding military aid in order to get that ally to take actions damaging to your politics opponent.
Nor are the daily lies on every subject in the world.
Nor is his rape convictions.
Nor are his felony convictions.
Nor is his life of political graft from Trump University on down.
There is no dealbreaker that would make you decide you need to step up and try to prevent him from being in the White House.
hawkeyetraveler
HB Heisman
I’m character above policy. The end never justifies the means for me. America is, at its essence, a set of ideals. Nothing ruins ideals faster than the support of a horrible person.
It's totally normal to not acknowledge defeat the entire time, call a state election official about "finding votes" and asking him to say that they "recalculated". Then having fake electors sign fake electoral ballots that you plan to switch with the real ones. On top of that having election officials refuse to certify an election "because of "fraud" despite there being no evidence of fraud. Not to mention pressuring his vice president to unilaterially throw out votes.
None of that is a coup.
That's not to mention that after his crowd attacked the capitol and the "protest" that he himself had summoned had clearly turned into a riot he refused to send any help to secure the capitol building and gleefully watched it all on TV while the rioters were openly hunting his own vice president.
Nope not a coup.
And I'm sure you would say the same thing if Obama had done all that for Clinton. Except he didn't do any of that, he told Clinton to concede and his own Vice President gaveled in Trump as president over some objections saying "IT'S OVER"
And I say this again, because it's extremely freaking important to me. It's easy for you to back Trump because it's not your kids he wants to kill. It's not your people he wants to sic the military on. Guy has literally talked about Schiff and Pelsoi as being the enemy from within and using the military against them if necessary. Not because of any real actual crime they have committed. . . he hasn't even named a crime he thinks they are guilty of, much less provided evidence of that crime. He wants to do this because they have been critical of him.
This time around John Kelly won't be around to talk Trump out of these things. In fact there is a good chance John Kelly gets rounded up too.
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Seriously?,.. "try to prevent him from being in the White House",.. What are you Boo?, a recruiter of assassins?
Have you heard of voting? You vote for an opponent in the primary, then vote for his main opponent in the general. You recognize how vile he is, then step up to keep him out of the White House. But nothing he does crosses a line for you that makes you think you need to do your part to keep him out.
I voted for an R opponent in the primary, but cannot vote for Kamala in the general, as I honestly believe that she would be far worse than another four years of Trump,.. And while I'd prefer to not have Trump in the White House, I don't fear him being there,.. Kamala, I fear.
This is what has made me lose a lot of respect for Republicans. They used to have principles. Now their only principle is power. Doesn't matter how they get it, doesn't matter who it is. Just power. Then they are enraged that several of their members like Liz Cheney have quit and are supporting the other side. You can disagree with Liz Cheney on everything but she has principles.
That's because you don't listen to the people informing you that her policies will result in FAR lower deficits than Trumps.
And that the US Economy has historically done MUCH better under Democratic leadership than GOP leadership.
And you don't seem to give a shit about the Constitution and Rule of Law.
But you just get a giant boner over being able to discriminate against gay, trans and non-white people.
Yep; you and I have concluded exactly the same thing here. That is ALL they care about.
