getting JUCO's or transfer are nice But

[gilligan19]

Fran got one in Jones and lost him for the season due to knee surgery, this could happen to anybody,

here is the "BUT" get a 1 year grad transfer and he get knocked for the season and he ends a wasted Sholarship and contributes nothing, getting HS players to me makes more sense, if a kid gets hurt he can red shirt and still help the team the following years,

and I have yet to ANY team go 13 deep in a game other than major blowouts. pick your poison

 

[StormHawk42]

The injury risk is the same for all players. Take a risk on someone who is proven and can contribute minutes right away or take a risk on a freshman that may or may not turn out. I'll take the risk on the proven commodity.

 

[ichawk24]

A grad transfer carries the risk of a single year on scholarship and not contributing. Maybe two, but unlikely.

A high schooler carries the risk of five scholarship years and not contributing.

 

[Jumpshot00]

I think you have to be open to all types of players. Get as many good players on your team as possible. Players being patient and waiting until their third or fourth to contribute is likely more the exception than the rule. Planning what a roster will look like in 2-3 years down the road seems like a crapshoot.
Look at it year to year- your going to lose seniors, players who don't play much and don't project to the next year- these happen to iowa and everyone else almost every year.
You will also lose unhappy players even if they play a lot, early entry NBA players, injured players, academics casualties (these don't really happen under Fran).
Then after the season you go find available transfers, unsigned hs players or bank scholarships. It's going to be that way every year. If somebody like Ellingson, Wagner, or Williams ends up riding the bench next year I doubt they stick around for their junior year. I would guess all three think they have a good chance at playing more than this year otherswise they would be gone already.

 

[RocknRollface]

Do you understand how grad transfers work Herby?

They don't sit out a year, they would play next year and be done.

There are very few quality high school players left in next years class, probably none that Iowa could get.

You basically have 3 options, sign a regular transfer that has to sit out a year ,sign a complete project who no one else wants or sign a grad transfer so you can have a player for the up coming season while recruiting high school players for the open spot the following season.

 

[Cydkar]

Fran got one in Jones and lost him for the season due to knee surgery, this could happen to anybody,

here is the "BUT" get a 1 year grad transfer and he get knocked for the season and he ends a wasted Sholarship and contributes nothing, getting HS players to me makes more sense, if a kid gets hurt he can red shirt and still help the team the following years,

and I have yet to ANY team go 13 deep in a game other than major blowouts. pick your poison

You don't pick up a JUCO or grad transfer to be your 13th man. Improve your roster or die.

 

[DodgerHawki]

I think you have to be open to all types of players. Get as many good players on your team as possible. Players being patient and waiting until their third or fourth to contribute is likely more the exception than the rule. Planning what a roster will look like in 2-3 years down the road seems like a crapshoot.
Look at it year to year- your going to lose seniors, players who don't play much and don't project to the next year- these happen to iowa and everyone else almost every year.
You will also lose unhappy players even if they play a lot, early entry NBA players, injured players, academics casualties (these don't really happen under Fran).
Then after the season you go find available transfers, unsigned hs players or bank scholarships. It's going to be that way every year. If somebody like Ellingson, Wagner, or Williams ends up riding the bench next year I doubt they stick around for their junior year. I would guess all three think they have a good chance at playing more than this year otherswise they would be gone already.

This. You have to be open to all avenues of improving the roster. There is no one way to build the roster. It would be fantastic if Fran could get nothing but Top 50 high school guys and everyone panned out and guys rode the bench for 2 years before playing as upperclassmen. It just doesn't work that way. Iowa should be exploring all options for improving the team next year. A grad transfer would be perfect as there is a need in 2016-17, and then that player would be done and you could use the scholarship on another player.

 

[FranklinHawk]

Do you understand how grad transfers work Herby?

They don't sit out a year, they would play next year and be done.

There are very few quality high school players left in next years class, probably none that Iowa could get.

You basically have 3 options, sign a regular transfer that has to sit out a year ,sign a complete project who no one else wants or sign a grad transfer so you can have a player for the up coming season while recruiting high school players for the open spot the following season.

The bolded is the key point, the only high school players left at this time of the year are for the most part either not worth an offer or top 25 type kids that we're not going to get. I'd prefer either a grad transfer or bank the scholarship for '17 where Fran is still in on some pretty highly rated guys.

 

[ABYPFCS]

I think JUCOs and grad transfers are fine, if used to complement your team. They can be used to quickly fix a deficiency on a team. More than a couple can be a desperation move.

 

[gilligan19]

Marble was a 4 year player, Olaseni was a 4 year player, White, Fran hit the jackpot.

Jones was a JUCO who was lost for the season because of a knee injury that required surgery, what happened to Jones can happen to any grad transfer. 1 year or 2-3, if its a 1 year grad I will pass,

Fran has put IA into a position whaere he can get top 100 players and top 50 and very few teams have 13 top 100 or top 50 players for recruits,

some of you are delusional for thinking that IA should.

 

[Run&Blade]

One year of scholarship isn't going to hurt. Like somebody else said a redshirt five year player does hurt if they ride pine.

 

[hansenhawk]

Let us not forgot Fran hasn't exactly struck gold any time he has reached into the JUCO ranks either.

Trey Dickerson was supposed to be this PG will so desperately need.

 

[RocknRollface]

The bolded is the key point, the only high school players left at this time of the year are for the most part either not worth an offer or top 25 type kids that we're not going to get. I'd prefer either a grad transfer or bank the scholarship for '17 where Fran is still in on some pretty highly rated guys.

With a grad transfer you have the scholorship available again for 17. So if you can get anyone theres no reason to bank it.

 

[RocknRollface]

Marble was a 4 year player, Olaseni was a 4 year player, White, Fran hit the jackpot.

Jones was a JUCO who was lost for the season because of a knee injury that required surgery, what happened to Jones can happen to any grad transfer. 1 year or 2-3, if its a 1 year grad I will pass,

Fran has put IA into a position whaere he can get top 100 players and top 50 and very few teams have 13 top 100 or top 50 players for recruits,

some of you are delusional for thinking that IA should.

Killroy being Killroy lol.

Trying to start an argument based on pure ignorance and insanity.

A grad transfer would only be allowed a 6th year if the staff wanted them back fool.

Its a no risk situation and its so simple to understand.

 

[like-woahh]

Killroy being Killroy lol.

Trying to start an argument based on pure ignorance and insanity.

A grad transfer would only be allowed a 6th year if the staff wanted them back fool.

Its a no risk situation and its so simple to understand.

DerpRoy doesn't understand that in the current state of college basketball it's smarter to supplement your 4 year players with talented transfers that can come in and make an immediate impact.

 

[RocknRollface]

DerpRoy doesn't understand that in the current state of college basketball it's smarter to supplement your 4 year players with talented transfers that can come in and make an immediate impact.

He starts an argument about grad transfer vs highschool player when its not an either or scenario.

He apparently doesn't understand the simplest concepts.

There are no realistic options for highschool players for next year.

You start recruiting for an additional highschool player for 17-18 now and in the mean time you don't just throw away your open spot for 16-17 if you don't have to.

 

[like-woahh]

He starts an argument about grad transfer vs highschool player when its not an either or scenario.

He apparently doesn't understand the simplest concepts.

There are no realistic options for highschool players for next year.

You start recruiting for an additional highschool player for 17-18 now and in the mean time you don't just throw away your open spot for 16-17 if you don't have to.

He's a complete moron, kind of sad to see him back. Dude just can't stay away no matter how many people tell him he's stupid.

 

[gilligan19]

look what Suliman did for Maryland and the other Transfer that Turgen got in at MD, just exactly what did all those transfers do for ISU don't see any NT's or Conference Titles, do you,

you are the ones not thinking straight, you are saying you are not happy with Fran bringing Cook or getting Moss out of Simeon HS in Chicago. or maybe you are pissed about Fran getting White, Basabe and Olaseni?

again IA was picked to finish 9th in the BT and yet they finished 12-6 and in a tie for 3rd for the 2nd straight year. something that has not happened since Dr. Tom was here and he was run off because he was not good enough.

his last 4 years Dr. Tom finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th, never once during that stretch did he finish out of the top half of the league.

you people are getting to be worse than UCLA fan and/or ND fans.

 

[like-woahh]

look what Suliman did for Maryland and the other Transfer that Turgen got in at MD, just exactly what did all those transfers do for ISU don't see any NT's or Conference Titles, do you,

you are the ones not thinking straight, you are saying you are not happy with Fran bringing Cook or getting Moss out of Simeon HS in Chicago. or maybe you are pissed about Fran getting White, Basabe and Olaseni?

again IA was picked to finish 9th in the BT and yet they finished 12-6 and in a tie for 3rd for the 2nd straight year. something that has not happened since Dr. Tom was here and he was run off because he was not good enough.

his last 4 years Dr. Tom finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th, never once during that stretch did he finish out of the top half of the league.

you people are getting to be worse than UCLA fan and/or ND fans.

Why I'm responding to you, I have no idea why. What in the living shit does the recruiting of Tyler Cook and Isaiah Moss have to do with pulling in a graduate transfer.

You brought up two teams who went further in the tournament than Iowa did as a point to why Iowa is doing things the right way or something?

What's even dumber, is if Dale Jones (a transfer) doesn't get hurt, more than likely makes Iowa a better team.

I know it's you, and you have a problem making a coherent thought, but what the hell are you even trying to say. Transfers are bad? Is that your position?

Then you start going off about Dr. Tom. It's been what, 17 years since then? I'm pretty sure the college game has changed just a little bit in almost 2 decades. Good god, just put down the keyboard.

 

[RocknRollface]

Why I'm responding to you, I have no idea why. What in the living shit does the recruiting of Tyler Cook and Isaiah Moss have to do with pulling in a graduate transfer.

You brought up two teams who went further in the tournament than Iowa did as a point to why Iowa is doing things the right way or something?

What's even dumber, is if Dale Jones (a transfer) doesn't get hurt, more than likely makes Iowa a better team.

I know it's you, and you have a problem making a coherent thought, but what the hell are you even trying to say. Transfers are bad? Is that your position?

Then you start going off about Dr. Tom. It's been what, 17 years since then? I'm pretty sure the college game has changed just a little bit in almost 2 decades. Good god, just put down the keyboard.

Its stuff like this that makes me think hes really some sort of genius troll.

Obviously what he is saying makes no sense, I mean its not even coherent, yet he does it in a way that makes a person so annoyed they are compelled to respond against all better judgment.

Is there such thing as an idiot savant troll?

 

[like-woahh]

Its stuff like this that makes me think hes really some sort of genius troll.

Obviously what he is saying makes no sense, I mean its not even coherent, yet he does it in a way that makes a person so annoyed they are compelled to respond against all better judgment.

Is there such thing as an idiot savant troll?

Dude is the damn master of it

 

[gilligan19]

ooo wow ISU went to the sweet 16 big deal they should have gone to the FF with those Transfers you and other are so hot and bothered about Fran needs to get., sorry if you can't figure this out but this is who Fran will have thus fall for FR and 1 RSFR,

PG FR 4* BY ESPN Bohanon
SG RSFR 4* BY ESPN Moss
F FR 3* BY ESPN Pemsyl
F FR 4* #47, 10TH best PF BY ESPN Cook
C FR NR BY ESPN C Kreiner.

that's the most 4* players in one class since the Tom Davis years who was run off for not winning enough.

to add to these in 2017 4* top 100 by all 4 sites, and in 2018 5* by ESPN Westerkamp joins the team, again why does Fran need transfers to make this team better when he is recruiting the players that will make this team better.

the last time IA landed a 5* McDonalds AA was when Dr. Tom signed Kingsbury and Murray, again again runoff because he was not doing enough to make people happy.

because of people like you the SA and Lick year happened. maybe you want this to happen again and again because of your overbloated expectations.

in the 2017 class Fran is trying to get 4* 6'11 F/C Williams 35th overall by 1 site and 37th by another, this is not good enough for you? if Fran banks the scholarship he might actually get another top 50/100 player. giving him 5 4*'s for the 2017 season.

that would be the most 4* players on a IA team ever. not even Lute Olsen never had that many at 1 time. Fran is doing just fine and does need Transfers to make IA competitive in the BT, Having back to back 12-6 and T-3rd seasons is proof of that,

only you are having the argument and are having a fit about my posts,

 

[RocknRollface]

You're right Herby, its better to just leave the scholarship unused next year rather than have an extra player for one year.

That makes sense.

 

[FranklinHawk]

With a grad transfer you have the scholorship available again for 17. So if you can get anyone theres no reason to bank it.

I understand that the ride would be open for '17 with a grad transfer, although I don't necessarily agree with the "get anyone" approach. If you can get someone who fills a need for next year great, but if not I'd prefer just to bank it.

 

[FranklinHawk]

Uh oh, only 40 posts in and Herby is already in full blown "YOU PEOPLE" mode. Herb, might want to start thinking about that next user name.

 

[cocoem]

You don't pick up a JUCO or grad transfer to be your 13th man. Improve your roster or die.

Exactly....JUCO's exist for a reason. There is a such small percentage of JUCO kids that could play BIG minutes at the next level. JUCO's are an academic wasteland for kids that can't qualify. No matter how good they are there is a major reason they are there. The last PG that came to Iowa from JUCO was a 1st Team All American (I believe) and he had zero ability to contribute. If they do not have clear cut 30+ minute ability, there is no reason to bring them in.

 

[kzoohawk80]

ooo wow ISU went to the sweet 16 big deal they should have gone to the FF with those Transfers you and other are so hot and bothered about Fran needs to get., sorry if you can't figure this out but this is who Fran will have thus fall for FR and 1 RSFR,

PG FR 4* BY ESPN Bohanon
SG RSFR 4* BY ESPN Moss
F FR 3* BY ESPN Pemsyl
F FR 4* #47, 10TH best PF BY ESPN Cook
C FR NR BY ESPN C Kreiner.

that's the most 4* players in one class since the Tom Davis years who was run off for not winning enough.

to add to these in 2017 4* top 100 by all 4 sites, and in 2018 5* by ESPN Westerkamp joins the team, again why does Fran need transfers to make this team better when he is recruiting the players that will make this team better.

the last time IA landed a 5* McDonalds AA was when Dr. Tom signed Kingsbury and Murray, again again runoff because he was not doing enough to make people happy.

because of people like you the SA and Lick year happened. maybe you want this to happen again and again because of your overbloated expectations.

in the 2017 class Fran is trying to get 4* 6'11 F/C Williams 35th overall by 1 site and 37th by another, this is not good enough for you? if Fran banks the scholarship he might actually get another top 50/100 player. giving him 5 4*'s for the 2017 season.

that would be the most 4* players on a IA team ever. not even Lute Olsen never had that many at 1 time. Fran is doing just fine and does need Transfers to make IA competitive in the BT, Having back to back 12-6 and T-3rd seasons is proof of that,

only you are having the argument and are having a fit about my posts,

I'm not even sure who you are arguing with. It's like your multiple personalities are arguing against each other.

 

[RocknRollface]

I understand that the ride would be open for '17 with a grad transfer, although I don't necessarily agree with the "get anyone" approach. If you can get someone who fills a need for next year great, but if not I'd prefer just to bank it.

Anyone within reason that could even potentially help would be a better way to put it.

There's little to no risk or cost if it comes down to that or no one.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

Fran got one in Jones and lost him for the season due to knee surgery, this could happen to anybody,

here is the "BUT" get a 1 year grad transfer and he get knocked for the season and he ends a wasted Sholarship and contributes nothing, getting HS players to me makes more sense, if a kid gets hurt he can red shirt and still help the team the following years,

and I have yet to ANY team go 13 deep in a game other than major blowouts. pick your poison

I understand your point of view, but to me it's all about adding value and contributing whether it's a recruit, juco, or graduate transfer. IMO getting 1 (grad transfer) or 2 (juco) years of contributions are more meaningful than 4 years of a kid who can't expand his role / contributions or worse yet, get on the floor. No absolutes, but generally speaking, a juco or grad transfer will be more mature physically and mentally.

Iowa will likely never be able to recruit enough high school kids here at one time to go 8 deep without losing a ton athletically or sprinkling in a couple of transfers. The 1 year graduate transfer is more appealing to me because you don't have to worry about academics like you do with many juco's and the guy is done after 1 season in the event of injury or a freshman needing a mentor. Due to transfers and misses, we don't have much of a succession plan in place for next season including 0 PG experience.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Can you list the star rankings of the players for Lute Olson?

 

[The Sleeping Dog]

A significant difference in the "risk" associated with a JUCO and a grad student transfer. A grad student has probably played out a career at D1 level. They also have demonstrated the social and academic skills to stay eligible. A JUCO is probably there because of an academic, or much less likely, social problem that precluded a D1 career out of HS. I've always thought JUCOs are a risky recruit.

 

[RocknRollface]

A significant difference in the "risk" associated with a JUCO and a grad student transfer. A grad student has probably played out a career at D1 level. They also have demonstrated the social and academic skills to stay eligible. A JUCO is probably there because of an academic, or much less likely, social problem that precluded a D1 career out of HS. I've always thought JUCOs are a risky recruit.

Yes, very different situations.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

A significant difference in the "risk" associated with a JUCO and a grad student transfer. A grad student has probably played out a career at D1 level. They also have demonstrated the social and academic skills to stay eligible. A JUCO is probably there because of an academic, or much less likely, social problem that precluded a D1 career out of HS. I've always thought JUCOs are a risky recruit.

Agree, which is why I suspect not many big ten teams go this route. I can't recall any juco that left or washed out academically prior to Hubbard and Dickerson. The only good thing I can say about Alford is that he was able to find some decent juco talent.

 

[RocknRollface]

Agree, which is why I suspect not many big ten teams go this route. I can't recall any juco that left or washed out academically prior to Hubbard and Dickerson. The only good thing I can say about Alford is that he was able to find some decent juco talent.

Neither Hubbard nor Dickerson washed out academically.

 

[like-woahh]

ooo wow ISU went to the sweet 16 big deal they should have gone to the FF with those Transfers you and other are so hot and bothered about Fran needs to get., sorry if you can't figure this out but this is who Fran will have thus fall for FR and 1 RSFR,

PG FR 4* BY ESPN Bohanon
SG RSFR 4* BY ESPN Moss
F FR 3* BY ESPN Pemsyl
F FR 4* #47, 10TH best PF BY ESPN Cook
C FR NR BY ESPN C Kreiner.

that's the most 4* players in one class since the Tom Davis years who was run off for not winning enough.

to add to these in 2017 4* top 100 by all 4 sites, and in 2018 5* by ESPN Westerkamp joins the team, again why does Fran need transfers to make this team better when he is recruiting the players that will make this team better.

the last time IA landed a 5* McDonalds AA was when Dr. Tom signed Kingsbury and Murray, again again runoff because he was not doing enough to make people happy.

because of people like you the SA and Lick year happened. maybe you want this to happen again and again because of your overbloated expectations.

in the 2017 class Fran is trying to get 4* 6'11 F/C Williams 35th overall by 1 site and 37th by another, this is not good enough for you? if Fran banks the scholarship he might actually get another top 50/100 player. giving him 5 4*'s for the 2017 season.

that would be the most 4* players on a IA team ever. not even Lute Olsen never had that many at 1 time. Fran is doing just fine and does need Transfers to make IA competitive in the BT, Having back to back 12-6 and T-3rd seasons is proof of that,

only you are having the argument and are having a fit about my posts,

I'm assuming this was directed at me, it's hard to tell - you're kind of a nutjob but why are you throwing Dale Jones under the bus? Is he not a Hawkeye, is he not a transfer that deserves your respect?

You say, "oooh ISU went to the sweet sixteen, big deal." Of course it's a big deal you moron, they went to the sweet sixteen and Iowa didn't. That's a big deal. Outside of last year they've had more success than Iowa in recent memory, that's a big deal.

I don't even know what point you're trying to make. I'm not arguing against Fran, you dumb shit. I'm 100% behind Fran. It's smart for him to look at transfers to make an immediate impact like every other damn college program in the nation.

You keep bringing up Tom Davis, anyone born after 1990 doesn't give two shits about Tom Davis, let it go.

Edit: Just noticed this, you don't even know the names of Iowa's top recruits. Joe "Westerkamp?" What are you smoking and where can I get some. It's Joe Wieskamp, pay attention moron.

 

[David1979]

look what Suliman did for Maryland and the other Transfer that Turgen got in at MD, just exactly what did all those transfers do for ISU don't see any NT's or Conference Titles, do you,

you are the ones not thinking straight, you are saying you are not happy with Fran bringing Cook or getting Moss out of Simeon HS in Chicago. or maybe you are pissed about Fran getting White, Basabe and Olaseni?

again IA was picked to finish 9th in the BT and yet they finished 12-6 and in a tie for 3rd for the 2nd straight year. something that has not happened since Dr. Tom was here and he was run off because he was not good enough.

his last 4 years Dr. Tom finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th, never once during that stretch did he finish out of the top half of the league.

you people are getting to be worse than UCLA fan and/or ND fans.

You aren't making any point whatsoever. Sulaimon helped Maryland a lot this year and they were much better because they had him. Iowa State was much better because of the transfers they got. No one is saying to not get four year guys. People are saying bring in a grad transfer that contribute next year so there isn't a drop off and it bridges the gap so the younger guys can develop. Every top school in the country looks at transfers. You aren't going to get a really good HS player most of the time this late in the year but you can get a gran transfer that has proven production that will help right away and its better than having a Fleming or Hutton etc. that just does nothing for a year and leaves.

 

[Myvue]

A significant difference in the "risk" associated with a JUCO and a grad student transfer. A grad student has probably played out a career at D1 level. They also have demonstrated the social and academic skills to stay eligible. A JUCO is probably there because of an academic, or much less likely, social problem that precluded a D1 career out of HS. I've always thought JUCOs are a risky recruit.

A grad student has to have finished his college education in four years with one year being a red shirt or out for the season injury. Maybe I didn't read your post correctly but it sounds to me you are saying if a grad student is signed it will be his fifth year of eligibility as long as he stays in school and that isn't the case.

 

[Ihawkhoops]

You aren't making any point whatsoever. Sulaimon helped Maryland a lot this year and they were much better because they had him. Iowa State was much better because of the transfers they got. No one is saying to not get four year guys. People are saying bring in a grad transfer that contribute next year so there isn't a drop off and it bridges the gap so the younger guys can develop. Every top school in the country looks at transfers. You aren't going to get a really good HS player most of the time this late in the year but you can get a gran transfer that has proven production that will help right away and its better than having a Fleming or Hutton etc. that just does nothing for a year and leaves.

Good points. If people aren't connected to the value transfers, including graduate transfers, bring to teams across the country, they don't watch much basketball. Bryn Forbes transferred from Cleveland State to Michigan State. Andrew White transferred from KU to Nebraska. Sulaimon and Carter transferred to Maryland. Bielfeldt transferred from Michigan to Indiana. Duncan Robins transferred from D-3 to Michigan.

Any of these guys would have been a nice addition to the roster. Not sure why Fran didn't go after Forbes when he was recruiting Clemmons. Cleveland State or Iowa? I think / hope we would win that one.