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Gonzaga's conference is joke

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Ihawkhoops

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Dec 10, 2015
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Few gets praised for playing such a tough non-conference schedule but that amounted to 5 ranked teams all year and not one of them in conference play. Yes their game with Baylor got cancelled or they would have had 6. Compare this to the big ten where a team may play two top 10 teams back to back followed by a top 20 opponent.

Gonzaga played Dixie State followed by Northwestern State x 2 before heading into the buzz saw that is the WCC with Pepperdine, Pacific, San Francisco, San Diego, Santa Clara, Loyola-Marymount, Portland, St. Mary's, and BYU. Nebraska would be the second best team in this conference hands down. Winning by 20+ is the norm for Gonzaga and that is after taking the foot off the gas for the last 8-10 minutes.

Gonzaga is a good team and Few seems like a decent guy who isn't a cheating scum bag. With that being said, they should not be able to retain a # 1 spot when they play nobody after December. It's basically a lock they will never be displaced simply because they play in a Horizon League conference. If they drop a game in November-December it won't hurt them long-term because they are guaranteed a 3-month winning streak to jump others who play legit competition.

They will probably win the national championship just to spite me like the deep run they made a couple years ago when I predicted they would not get past the 2nd round. It will not change my POV that their conference is a joke and they should not be rewarded with a # 1 ranking for playing a 5 game schedule. Hell their starters probably graduate in 2 years since they get so much homework done in the second halves of games.
 
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Your rant probably wouldn’t ring so hollow if they hadn’t already beaten us. Also if NET and Kenpom and other analytics didn’t adjust for strength of opponent. But they do.

Iowa doesn’t deserve Gonzaga’s #1 seed because Indiana and Minnesota are better than Portland State, and Santa Clara.
 
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Raptorpeeps said:
Your rant probably wouldn’t ring so hollow if they hadn’t already beaten us. Also if NET and Kenpom and other analytics didn’t adjust for strength of opponent. But they do.

Iowa doesn’t deserve Gonzaga’s #1 seed because Indiana and Minnesota are better than Portland State, and Santa Clara.
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Correct. I'm sure Gonzaga wishes its conference didn't suck rocks. But it does. So they play a lot of good teams in the non-conference. And they are very good and deserving of a 1 seed.

It will be interesting to see what happens when they have to play actual teams again in 2 weeks. It's likely they go to the Final 4, they are good. But players can develop bad habits playing against far inferior competition.
 
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There’s two sides to this coin. They haven’t really been tested in a game in a couple months. Once the heat turns on in the sweet sixteen, will they be able to handle it. History says that they often don’t. 9 times in the last <20 years they’ve had a 4 seed or better. They’ve made the Elite Eight 3 times and a Final Four only once. And they were a 1 or 2 all of those times that they had that level of success.

Having said that, take the eye test. They are a damn good team. I expect them to make the Final Four this year. But I expect someone to take them down there. Baylor has been battle tested. Illinois and Michigan will both be better because of last night’s blowout. Iowa and OSU are also battle tested. There are a handful of teams that can beat anyone in the country if they don’t have a bad shooting night, including us. If we shot against them the same way we shot against UNC, the Zags would already have a loss.
 
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Ihawkhoops said:
Few gets praised for playing such a tough non-conference schedule but that amounted to 5 ranked teams all year and not one of them in conference play. Yes their game with Baylor got cancelled or they would have had 6. Compare this to the big ten where a team may play two top 10 teams back to back followed by a top 20 opponent.

Gonzaga played Dixie State followed by Northwestern State x 2 before heading into the buzz saw that is the WCC with Pepperdine, Pacific, San Francisco, San Diego, Santa Clara, Loyola-Marymount, Portland, St. Mary's, and BYU. Nebraska would be the second best team in this conference hands down. Winning by 20+ is the norm for Gonzaga and that is after taking the foot off the gas for the last 8-10 minutes.

Gonzaga is a good team and Few seems like a decent guy who isn't a cheating scum bag. With that being said, they should not be able to retain a # 1 spot when they play nobody after December. It's basically a lock they will never be displaced simply because they play in a Horizon League conference. If they drop a game in November-December it won't hurt them long-term because they are guaranteed a 3-month winning streak to jump others who play legit competition.

They will probably win the national championship just to spite me like the deep run they made a couple years ago when I predicted they would not get past the 2nd round. It will not change my POV that their conference is a joke and they should not be rewarded with a # 1 ranking for playing a 5 game schedule. Hell their starters probably graduate in 2 years since they get so much homework done in the second halves of games.
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It sucks for the rest of basketball that they face no challenging games from January onward, but you can't fault them for that. They have a play anyone, anywhere attitude with their non-con schedule and have proven themselves. They're hurt by geography and being a non football school. I'm sure they would LOVE to be in the Big East if it were feasible. They are isolated out on the west coast being the program that they are. The easy schedule is great, but it still doesn't compete with the revenue of being in a major basketball conference. I fully believe they would jump to a better conference if the opportunity were there.
 
jberesford said:
It sucks for the rest of basketball that they face no challenging games from January onward, but you can't fault them for that. They have a play anyone, anywhere attitude with their non-con schedule and have proven themselves. They're hurt by geography and being a non football school. I'm sure they would LOVE to be in the Big East if it were feasible. They are isolated out on the west coast being the program that they are. The easy schedule is great, but it still doesn't compete with the revenue of being in a major basketball conference. I fully believe they would jump to a better conference if the opportunity were there.
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I see them having two options:

1. Join the Mountain West. Hawaii is football only, no reason Gonzaga couldn't negotiate to be basketball only.

2. Move the campus. A quarter of their team isn't from the U.S. anyway, it doesn't get state funding, and Kispert is the only player of any stature from Washington, so I doubt anyone would put up much of a fuss.
 
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jberesford said:
It sucks for the rest of basketball that they face no challenging games from January onward, but you can't fault them for that. They have a play anyone, anywhere attitude with their non-con schedule and have proven themselves. They're hurt by geography and being a non football school. I'm sure they would LOVE to be in the Big East if it were feasible. They are isolated out on the west coast being the program that they are. The easy schedule is great, but it still doesn't compete with the revenue of being in a major basketball conference. I fully believe they would jump to a better conference if the opportunity were there.
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Of course we can fault them for the that. We fault other teams for losing to tough tough competition late in the season....
 
5 schools from that league have a higher net rating than Nebby. BYU is 19. Look, it’s a silly argument. They’re a small school in the middle of nowhere without a FB program. It’s not a power 5 conference. They clearly don’t play on a nightly basis the teams from the B1G or Big 12 play. Doesn’t take away the fact that they have a helluva team year in and year out. Would they lose a few games every year in the Big Ten or 12? Sure. By all metrics they are still the number 1 team in the country with 3-4 NBA players. Doesn’t mean they will win the whole thing either. 68 other teams. Now if they don’t make the elite 8 or final 4 this year I’d say their season is a disappointment. I’m sure they would say the same. And they dropped 100 on us and took their foot off the gas the last 5 minutes.
 
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hawkedoff said:
In December
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And they'll have to prove it again in March. They're obviously one of if not the best teams in the country so I'm not sure what the issue is. If anything the lack of stiffer competition between January and March might hurt them so a long run or championship would be all the more impressive.
 
I think Few has got the dream gig for a college job, and he knows it.

Just play a few legit teams in the non-con - to boost the SOS as much as possible - and then basically walk through your mid-tier midmajor conference regular season and conf. tourney schedule to a high seed in the Big Dance every year. He's got it so locked down and chugging along now that he's pulling in Top5 NBA Draft talent and other big prospects.

Wash, rinse, and repeat.
 
BondHawk said:
Are you really willing to go back to the 1970s for this argument? Even Bill Russell is laughing at you.
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St. Mary’s and BYU in particular have been good programs for the past decade, it’s not that they’re terrible currently. This year in particular its more that they’re far behind Gonzaga right now.
 
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Gonzaga is the best in the country.. but I doubt they would hold up in the Big Ten night after night. They are probley top 3 if they played in a whole big ten season. Every team here is able to beat you. In their conference, they don't have that same issue.. Not many if any team is able to beat them. Its such a grind in the Big Ten but it helps the teams in the tourney. I think the Zags get dumped in the elite 8
 
Herky T Hawk said:
There’s two sides to this coin. They haven’t really been tested in a game in a couple months. Once the heat turns on in the sweet sixteen, will they be able to handle it. History says that they often don’t. 9 times in the last <20 years they’ve had a 4 seed or better. They’ve made the Elite Eight 3 times and a Final Four only once. And they were a 1 or 2 all of those times that they had that level of success.

Having said that, take the eye test. They are a damn good team. I expect them to make the Final Four this year. But I expect someone to take them down there. Baylor has been battle tested. Illinois and Michigan will both be better because of last night’s blowout. Iowa and OSU are also battle tested. There are a handful of teams that can beat anyone in the country if they don’t have a bad shooting night, including us. If we shot against them the same way we shot against UNC, the Zags would already have a loss.
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History shows they are good in the tournament. Do you realize what you are trying to make sound bad? 9 sweet sixteens, 3 elite eights and a final four where the played for a championship? The expected number of wins based on seeding goes like this:
1 seed - 3.35
2 seed 2. 39
3 seed 1.85
4 seed 1.54
And if you look at the last 5 tournaments when I would say their talent has been better than Few's early years he is 15-5.
 
David1979 said:
History shows they are good in the tournament. Do you realize what you are trying to make sound bad? 9 sweet sixteens, 3 elite eights and a final four where the played for a championship? The expected number of wins based on seeding goes like this:
1 seed - 3.35
2 seed 2. 39
3 seed 1.85
4 seed 1.54
And if you look at the last 5 tournaments when I would say their talent has been better than Few's early years he is 15-5.
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That is great but their conference record allows higher seeding. That means they don't ever run into Duke or the like in the second round. Do you really think they have that run of success coming in as a 9 seed which is much more likely if they played in the Big Ten?
 
hawkedoff said:
That is great but their conference record allows higher seeding. That means they don't ever run into Duke or the like in the second round. Do you really think they have that run of success coming in as a 9 seed which is much more likely if they played in the Big Ten?
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That isn't what allows the higher seeding. What allows them a higher seeding is when they have a good team. They usually play a strong non con and their conference usually has at least one other tourney team. They have gotten to the sweet sixteen or better as a lower seed including as a #10 and #11 seed.
And they wouldn't go from a 1 seed or a 2 seed to a nine seed just because they played in the Big Ten.
 
hawkedoff said:
That is great but their conference record allows higher seeding. That means they don't ever run into Duke or the like in the second round. Do you really think they have that run of success coming in as a 9 seed which is much more likely if they played in the Big Ten?
Click to expand...

You’ve said a lot of dumb things but that might be the dumbest. Iowa’s going to be a a 2 or 3 this year. You think the Zags would be a 9 if they played in the Big Ten?
 
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littlez said:
You’ve said a lot of dumb things but that might be the dumbest. Iowa’s going to be a a 2 or 3 this year. You think the Zags would be a 9 if they played in the Big Ten?
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In many of the years they had success? Yes. Have you actually looked at who they have played in the tournament the years they have done well?

They are a good team this year but they are like Boise State. Capable of playing good teams and beating them but so are most teams in the big conferences every single year.

Why do you think people are bitching that michigan isn't playing a full conference schedule? Because we all know that Michigan can get beat by anyone in our conference and even if they win it wears you down.

Gonzaga runs through their conference as if they are playing against JV teams.
 
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This is their tournament history. As soon as they run into the bigger programs with tradition....they lose. Just like everyone else. Because of their seeding they tend not to run into those programs until later rounds. When they had their run to the final and lost to North Carolina they beat South Dakota State, Northwestern, West Virginia, Xavier, and South Carolina. In any given year would you be happy with that potential lineup for Iowa to get to the final? People would be doing cartwheels in here if that was who we had to play. Once Gonzaga plays the big kids they lose. By the way they have lost plenty in the tournament to programs that are not the big kids as well. But they get there every year because of their weak ass conference
 
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hawkedoff said:
That is great but their conference record allows higher seeding. That means they don't ever run into Duke or the like in the second round. Do you really think they have that run of success coming in as a 9 seed which is much more likely if they played in the Big Ten?
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Along with having inflated seeds, I'd argue they haven't played up to those high seeds several times.
2004 #2 (second round loss)
2005 #3 (second round loss)
2013 #1 (second round loss)
2019 #1 (eight eight loss)

If they played to their elevated seed those years they would have two extra final fours, an elite eight, and a sweet sixteen. Don't get me wrong, I would totally trade our recent history with them. 29 tourney wins in the last 20 years is pretty dang good. And recent history is more on their side as they are trending toward deeper tourney runs with five straight sweet sixteens or better with their high seeds.

I'm not saying they are going to lose early. I expect them to make the final four. I just think that not having been battle tested in conference season may hurt them when they have to go up against potentially 2 or three straight elite teams. And if they make the championship game, with only 1 day of rest/prep.

In a 7 day span we went up against Illinois, MSU, and OSU earlier this year. (MSU isn't elite but has 4-star talent)
In a 10 day span Michigan went up against OSU, Iowa, Indiana, and Illinois. (Indiana isn't elite this year but the others are)
In an 8 day span Illinois is going up against Wisconsin, Michigan, and OSU.
In a 9 day span Baylor is going up against Kansas, WVU, Okie State, and Texas Tech.

Gonzaga has played 4 tough games, but they were all spaced out a week or more apart so that they weren't playing a bunch of tough ones with no rest.
 
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As for Gonzaga moving to a better conference if given a chance, I don't know. Utah joined the Pac10 in 2011. So why didn't they try to get to the pac 10?
 
David1979 said:
That isn't what allows the higher seeding. What allows them a higher seeding is when they have a good team. They usually play a strong non con and their conference usually has at least one other tourney team. They have gotten to the sweet sixteen or better as a lower seed including as a #10 and #11 seed.
And they wouldn't go from a 1 seed or a 2 seed to a nine seed just because they played in the Big Ten.
Click to expand...

The string non conference schedule where they catch big conference teams early in the year knowing their conference is a cake walk. Meanwhile those bigger teams are gearing up for a grind if a conference schedule
 
twindman said:
As for Gonzaga moving to a better conference if given a chance, I don't know. Utah joined the Pac10 in 2011. So why didn't they try to get to the pac 10?
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They don’t have a FB team. I guess it would be like if Creighton had a 15-20 year run like Gonzaga. Would the Big Ten invite Creighton? The answer is no. Utah is a way different animal. Big public university. In a growing state. Gonzaga is a tiny private school in the middle of nowhere.
 
twindman said:
As for Gonzaga moving to a better conference if given a chance, I don't know. Utah joined the Pac10 in 2011. So why didn't they try to get to the pac 10?
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There really aren't a lot of viable options for Gonzaga. The PAC may not want Gonzaga because it's a small private school that (probably) isn't highly research-focused (the PAC-12 is very research-oriented, not unlike the B1G) and that despite the success, has a small fanbase and won't bring much to the PAC-12 footprint (and I'm sure a lot of Gonzaga fans are already football fans of the Washington and Oregon schools anyway).

Gonzaga may want to take a look at the Big East to be honest. It's primarily consisted of small Catholic schools, but it's no longer limited to schools in the Eastern time zone, as schools like Creighton and Marquette are firmly established in the Central time zone. It might want a travel partner of some sort though to ease some of the travel costs, but there aren't a lot of schools out there that fit the mold (BYU might make the most sense due to having $$ and a sizable fan base).

It's sort of apples-and-oranges, but Gonzaga takes a lot of flack for not playing in a great conference but Alabama gets a pass despite playing in an almost-equally weak conference. Gonzaga's scalps are way more impressive than Alabama's, and Alabama has whiffed (and badly, I might add) more often than not against premier opponents (which were relatively few and far between).
 
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Don't even know why we are having this discussion. Everyone knows Gonzaga is good. The beautiful thing about the NCAA Tournament is that you get a chance to prove just how good you are. I suspect Gonzaga will be just fine.
 
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I live on the west coast and get to see WCC games on TV. The conference is down this year - except for Gonzaga, of course - although BYU has a good chance for an at-large bid and St. Mary's may as well. These latter two teams have been much better in previous seasons and have beaten Gonzaga. The Zags wouldn't be undefeated this season if they played in the B1G, but they'd be right up there with Michigan and Illinois.
 
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Everyone whose team is halfway decent think that their boys would cruise through the WCC. Truth is that Iowa would manage to lose a game or two in that conference, as most teams in America would. Obviously their conference schedule isn't the grind that the B1G or other major conferences is, but they still have to show up every night with a huge target on their backs. A sh#t ton of pressure comes with being undefeated.

All they can do is play the games on their schedule. Their situation is not any different than UNLV in the 80s and early 90s. They shouldn't have to apologize for building a great program at their little school.
 
Ihawkhoops said:
Few gets praised for playing such a tough non-conference schedule but that amounted to 5 ranked teams all year and not one of them in conference play. Yes their game with Baylor got cancelled or they would have had 6. Compare this to the big ten where a team may play two top 10 teams back to back followed by a top 20 opponent.

Gonzaga played Dixie State followed by Northwestern State x 2 before heading into the buzz saw that is the WCC with Pepperdine, Pacific, San Francisco, San Diego, Santa Clara, Loyola-Marymount, Portland, St. Mary's, and BYU. Nebraska would be the second best team in this conference hands down. Winning by 20+ is the norm for Gonzaga and that is after taking the foot off the gas for the last 8-10 minutes.

Gonzaga is a good team and Few seems like a decent guy who isn't a cheating scum bag. With that being said, they should not be able to retain a # 1 spot when they play nobody after December. It's basically a lock they will never be displaced simply because they play in a Horizon League conference. If they drop a game in November-December it won't hurt them long-term because they are guaranteed a 3-month winning streak to jump others who play legit competition.

They will probably win the national championship just to spite me like the deep run they made a couple years ago when I predicted they would not get past the 2nd round. It will not change my POV that their conference is a joke and they should not be rewarded with a # 1 ranking for playing a 5 game schedule. Hell their starters probably graduate in 2 years since they get so much homework done in the second halves of games.
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You know why they maintain their high praise / ranking? Because they tend to be legit.

Zags, at minimum, have made the Sweet 16 round in 5 straight tourneys.
 
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