Good showing against Seton Hall, but glaring weaknesses. I stand by 12+ loss prediction. Limited scoring options, no front-court depth.

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I will agree that JoBo, CJ we’re extreme defensive liabilities (Oregon, Gonzaga, etc) and the addition by subtracting works, however, you would agree that Frans poor defensive metrics precede those years.

at any rate, Ulis and Perkins are both very good defenders and having them as the primary back court will be a big plus.
Right. Fran’s best defensive teams had a backcourt of Sapp and Mike G, both solid defenders. Don’t quote me, but I believe the AdjD during those years was in the high 20’s, low 30’s. We just need guys to go can actually stay in from if their man consistently. Also props to Woodbury for anchoring down the middle and being a solid rebounder.
 

HoustonREDHawk

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So we're sorta on the same page, maybe just reading things with a different tone. Your question, "but at what cost?" hits the nail on the head on this issue. To that specific point it is a balance of how aggressive and/or physical do you get in order to outscore the opponent (which of course is how we win the game) and how do you go about that......some very successful teams/programs adhere to what you are advocating for (MSU-Purdue-Wisconsin-others) really get after it on defense....those might be extremes and (I believe) that is what Seton Hall wants to do, they just weren't able to keep up with Iowa's free wheeling and fast paced offense.

Let me state, I wish we were better defensively and, I have been frustrated with our inability to accomplish that under Fran. That said I think, with no basketball expertise, that the ideal way to play is to play good defense without fouling while being very effective and efficient on offense. I "think" that is what Fran is trying to accomplish and is obviously better at coaching offense. All that goes to my point that the 2 foul rule doesn't cause players to play more passively...it is meant to make them play defense and avoid fouling at the same time.

Let me take that one step further.....that is why I think Fran likes to switch up defenses and will only stick with either man or zone when he feels like his team has the matchups to take advantage of that. This is also obviously predicated on his players......JBO (who in my mind was/is a great Hawkeye) did not give a lot of effort on the defensive end until his last year. He was much better at defense at that point, but still limited based on size and strength....so, when ONE of the five breaks down in Fran's system it REALLY hurts the defense.

We are now in a different era as far as our guard court....we have good size and decent athleticism that should allow for better TEAM defense based on the individual players.
I don't disagree with much of this, but I think Iowa has generally been pretty good on defense this year, with some brief lapses. It is addition by subtraction in the backcourt. We now have much better on-ball defense than we have had for most of Fran's tenure, and that has really helped disrupt other teams running their offense. Perkins and Ulis, in particular, cause problems for opponents with their defensive aggressiveness. Rebraca has been much better defending the interior than many give him credit, and Kris gets it done without looking like he is giving much effort. I wish we had someone off the bench on the interior to help. Our weak spot on defense, once teams get past the press is at 3. Patrick's length allows him to make disruptive plays, but he is not a good man-to-man defender. We will have to see whether this continues, when we play better opponents.
 

DodgerHawki

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Right. Fran’s best defensive teams had a backcourt of Sapp and Mike G, both solid defenders. Don’t quote me, but I believe the AdjD during those years was in the high 20’s, low 30’s. We just need guys to go can actually stay in from if their man consistently. Also props to Woodbury for anchoring down the middle and being a solid rebounder.
They had tons of guys with length on the best defensive teams of the Fran era.

Gessel and Clemmons were + perimeter defenders, plus Woodbury was good position defender and Olaseni was a very good shot blocker. The 2014-15 team was 34th in defensive efficiency, and 2015-16 team was 30. Uthoff was also a good defender on both of those teams and White was on the 15 team while Baer started his career on the 16 team. Defenders with length on the interior, two guards who could guard pretty well on the perimeter, not a great mystery as to why they were better on defense.
 

DodgerHawki

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I don't disagree with much of this, but I think Iowa has generally been pretty good on defense this year, with some brief lapses. It is addition by subtraction in the backcourt. We now have much better on-ball defense than we have had for most of Fran's tenure, and that has really helped disrupt other teams running their offense. Perkins and Ulis, in particular, cause problems for opponents with their defensive aggressiveness. Rebraca has been much better defending the interior than many give him credit, and Kris gets it done without looking like he is giving much effort. I wish we had someone off the bench on the interior to help. Our weak spot on defense, once teams get past the press is at 3. Patrick's length allows him to make disruptive plays, but he is not a good man-to-man defender. We will have to see whether this continues, when we play better opponents.
Iowa will be far more tested than they have so far. Seton Hall didn't run much of anything. With that said, Iowa is in a much better position to keep opponents in front of them on defense than in the past 5 years. They just are. When the opponent can get into the lane easily, it takes apart anything you want to get done on defense.

Agree that 1 more good interior defender would be nice when the inevitable foul trouble for Rebraca or Murray comes in a game.
 

owenhawk

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I will agree that JoBo, CJ we’re extreme defensive liabilities (Oregon, Gonzaga, etc) and the addition by subtracting works, however, you would agree that Frans poor defensive metrics precede those years.

at any rate, Ulis and Perkins are both very good defenders and having them as the primary back court will be a big plus.
The Woodbury/Gessell/Clemons years this wasn't the case. In their Soph - Senior years, they were actually rated in 40 - 80th range nationally in Defensive Efficiency.

After they have left, they only have been higher than 200th one time - and that was last year where they made the jump to 140th, which was probably boosted quite a bit by the defensive improvement we saw the 2nd half of the year when Perkins became a starter and Rebraca started to settle in.

Woodbury was a great defensive player and Gessell and Clemmons played solid defensive and were physical/quick enough to stay with athletic Guards ... those teams just didn't have the offensive firepower we are used to seeing under Fran.

What's exciting about this team is they might finally have a more balanced combo of offensive talent and better athletes at Guard to defend in Perkins and Ulis.
 

RocknRollface

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Right. Fran’s best defensive teams had a backcourt of Sapp and Mike G, both solid defenders. Don’t quote me, but I believe the AdjD during those years was in the high 20’s, low 30’s. We just need guys to go can actually stay in from if their man consistently. Also props to Woodbury for anchoring down the middle and being a solid rebounder.
Also, for as much as uneducated fans didn't understand the way they defended the high screen, Woodbury did it about as good as you can most nights.
 

jonesy5960

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I think the OP is slightly overboard on his prediction but probably not by much. Fran has only had one year at Iowa where he hasn't lost at least 10 games each year. Most between 13 and 11 loses, so as good as this team appears to be and I'm extremely high on this team, there's a good chance they will lose at least 10 games.
As far as Fran relying on the portal to bring in "better players", unless a situation comes up like it did for Fran to bring Filip to Iowa I think his belief is to allow his scholarship players to own the season however it turns out.
He loves to bring in players, season them for a year or two and then allow them to take ownership. Only Payton Sandford of the 9 players that he recruited received any amount of playing time in there first year at Iowa. Correct me if I'm wrong....
Outside of injuries to key players, I see little possibility of this team losing 12 games in the regular season. I don't see them losing more than one OOC game and more than 8 in the conference for a total of 9 and I think I'm being fairly conservative.
 

RocknRollface

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Rebracas defense has been very good but whats more important than his interior D is his ability to switch screens.

Fran has never had that at the 5 spot besides Kris last year.

Being able to switch everything is huge, that's why seaton hall looked like they had no offensive game plan.

Almost nobody runs post offense anymore, its all screen oriented and when the defense switches it forces you to play iso ball.

99% of college teams aren't talented enough to play that way.
 

jonesy5960

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Right. Fran’s best defensive teams had a backcourt of Sapp and Mike G, both solid defenders. Don’t quote me, but I believe the AdjD during those years was in the high 20’s, low 30’s. We just need guys to go can actually stay in from if their man consistently. Also props to Woodbury for anchoring down the middle and being a solid rebounder.
It wasn't in the 20's but it was in the 30's a couple of years with that group. Far and away the best defensive performance of Fran's tenure. The defense took a steep dive with JBo at the point and Garza inside. Great offense but suspect defense.
 
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RocknRollface

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Yeah, Woodbury got crap for the eye pokes and crocodile arms, but he should be a trader on the Chicago Board of Trade for how well he hedged off the high pick and roll!
Yep he almost always made the ballhandler go away from the basket.

Picking up a few fouls out there was inevitable when you are riding a ballhandler the opposite way he wants to go.

His only weakness was the screener slipping. He tended to get burned there but most college big men aren't good enough to do that consistently.
 

RocknRollface

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It wasn't in the 20's but it was in the 30's a couple of years with that group. Far and away the best defensive performance of Fran's tenure. The defense took a steep dive with JBo at the point and Garza inside. Great offense but suspect defense.
Don't forget Cook he was just as bad defensively.
 
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RocknRollface

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He should have been much better with his athleticism. With that said, the best defensive ranking over the past 6 years was 77 in 2021 when Jbo wasn't playing.
I thought that was the best team Luka was on.

They were tougher than the others.
 

RocknRollface

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Luka was great but he was a big liability on defense in some games where Iowa was beaten consistently on the pick and roll. That's not happening today with Rebraca.
IMO surrounding Luka with the best defense you could was a better path to winning than surrounding him with the most shooters you could.
 

KcTo

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Luka was great but he was a big liability on defense in some games where Iowa was beaten consistently on the pick and roll. That's not happening today with Rebraca.
Luka and his non switching to go with Jobo, CJ, ConMac on the perimeter with Wieskamp at PF is truly a defensive disaster vs Oregon and Gonzaga
 

jonesy5960

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Luka and his non switching to go with Jobo, CJ, ConMac on the perimeter with Wieskamp at PF is truly a defensive disaster vs Oregon and Gonzaga
Yeah. Those were some really challenging lineups from a defensive perspective to be sure. They couldn't stay with anyone on the perimeter and then no one to protect inside when they got beat. Keegan was the only truly capable defender on the floor and the only guy you saw consistently helping when the perimeter defense broke down.

That's not the case this year.
 
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KcTo

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Just imagine if Keegan had returned this year. This team would be a very tough out.
Fran would then still bring Kris off bench as the same rationale as last year applies. Needs that guy off bench to spell Keegan, Rebraca and PMac
 

KcTo

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Yeah. Those were some really challenging lineups from a defensive perspective to be sure. They couldn't stay with anyone on the perimeter and then no one to protect inside when they got beat. Keegan was the only truly capable defender on the floor and the only guy you saw consistently helping when the perimeter defense broke down.

That's not the case this year.

the issue this year, as earlier stated, and obvious, is there are no more Murray’s off the bench and only the this years version of 2021 Kris and 2020 Keegan, who is changed to the bench, Ogundele.
 

KcTo

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Are you comparing Ogundele to the Murrays?
Only in the sense that Ogundele
  • Like Kris and Keegan, is the 1st front court guy off the bench
  • like Kris and Keegan both played behind CMac,
  • like Kris in 2020, was chained to the bench
  • Like both p, maybe he’ll have breakout season after CMac is finally gone
 

jonesy5960

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Only in the sense that Ogundele
  • Like Kris and Keegan, is the 1st front court guy off the bench
  • like Kris and Keegan both played behind CMac,
  • like Kris in 2020, was chained to the bench
  • Like both p, maybe he’ll have breakout season after CMac is finally gone
I think that's a bit of a reach. When the Murrays were coming off the bench they were easily the second most effective players on the team. I'm one of the few left that still sees potential in Josh and I would like to see him spelling Rebraca.. Still, this isn't a Murray situation where you do anything you can to get them on the court, especially given the fact that they can play any position at a high level with the exception of PG.

I wouldn't be surprised if neither Josh nor Mulvey ever sees a lot of minutes at Iowa, but I think it's more likely that Josh does. He has shown some skills and he has a big body that comes I'm handy against the Edeys and Dickinsons of the world. Against Seton Hall their big was dominating inside before he got into foul trouble. Had he stayed in, Josh might have been a good option.
 
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HoustonREDHawk

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Only in the sense that Ogundele
  • Like Kris and Keegan, is the 1st front court guy off the bench
  • like Kris and Keegan both played behind CMac,
  • like Kris in 2020, was chained to the bench
  • Like both p, maybe he’ll have breakout season after CMac is finally gone
You actually believe that?o_O
 
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KcTo

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I think that's a bit of a reach. When the Murrays were coming off the bench they were easily the second most effective players on the team. I'm one of the few left that still sees potential in Josh and I would like to see him spelling Rebraca.. Still, this isn't a Murray situation where you do anything you can to get them on the court, especially given the fact that they can play any position at a high level with the exception of PG.

I wouldn't be surprised if neither Josh nor Mulvey ever sees a lot of minutes at Iowa, but I think it's more likely that Josh does. He has shown some skills and he has a big body that comes I'm handy against the Edeys and Dickinsons of the world. Against Seton Hall their big was dominating inside before he got into foul trouble. Had he stayed in, Josh might have been a good option.
I see you and are the lone members of the Ogundele fan club
 
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HoustonREDHawk

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Fran would then still bring Kris off bench as the same rationale as last year applies. Needs that guy off bench to spell Keegan, Rebraca and PMac
120 minutes divided among those 4 players would be a pretty impressive front court. I might agree with you insinuation that Patrick would, but shouldn't, get more minutes than Kris. Now that he has found his shot, I'm not sure that I wouldn't be giving Connor as many minutes as Patrick.
 
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Hawk_4shur

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So, I see that last night Big O and Mulvey were a combined 0-2, 2 boards, 2 assists and 1 turnover.

Are these guys going to play meaningful minutes this year? It sure looks like they aren't going to be part of the rotation at all.
 
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hawkjt

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So, I see that last night Big O and Mulvey were a combined 0-2, 2 boards, 2 assists and 1 turnover.

Are these guys going to play meaningful minutes this year? It sure looks like they aren't going to be part of the rotation at all.
Josh will contribute this season
We have plenty of scoring so that will not be his role.
Defend, rebound, protect the paint and rim. That's it...josh can help.
 
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Should have upgraded a few positions with the portal but didn’t. C- frontcourt, C+ backcourt. Duke will embarrass us by 30+. Next year’s recruiting class is pedestrian at best. The past 30+ years of futility will continue for the foreseeable future. I know, I know, the same bs I’ve heard for years, “You can’t recruit top 4* and 5* talent to the state of Iowa.” Sure, ask Iowa St that question.
We’re just a MAC program trying to imitate a Power 5 program.

All my love,
Roy (F,U)
Simmer down Roy !! LOL I'll take your 30-point statement straight up versus Duke. Put your money where your mouth is.
 

RocknRollface

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120 minutes divided among those 4 players would be a pretty impressive front court. I might agree with you insinuation that Patrick would, but shouldn't, get more minutes than Kris. Now that he has found his shot, I'm not sure that I wouldn't be giving Connor as many minutes as Patrick.
Right now Connor is the better player.

Never thought that would be the case.

Got to give huge credit to Connor for fixing his shot in one off season.

I imagine the way he was not being defended last year was a big motivator.
 

owenhawk

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Only in the sense that Ogundele
  • Like Kris and Keegan, is the 1st front court guy off the bench
  • like Kris and Keegan both played behind CMac,
  • like Kris in 2020, was chained to the bench
  • Like both p, maybe he’ll have breakout season after CMac is finally gone
No offense but nothing Josh has shown is in the same universe as the Murray's. Nothing suggests he will be a breakout player, at least not anywhere near their level.

Also, not sure what you mean about both those guys playing behind CMac? CMac hasn't started over them and he was 8th in minutes on the team last year.

And I would rather have CMac playing more minutes than Josh and it isn't even close.
 

owenhawk

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Josh will contribute this season
We have plenty of scoring so that will not be his role.
Defend, rebound, protect the paint and rim. That's it...josh can help.
I think they will need Josh to at least give 6-8 minutes per game of what you stated. I don't care if he can score. But they will need his body to defend big buys and provide fouls if needed. Hopefully rebound relatively well. Anymore that that from him would be a plus this year.

After seeing Mulvey in person last night, yikes, he's just not getting it and played very meek. Fran was LIVID late in the game with him. You could him screaming at Mulvey to REBOUND and was getting frustrated every play as Riley let other guys grab the rebound and was not aggressive at all. He finally got fed up and motioned for Kingsbury to go in for him and when Mulvey came out at time out, he was just giving it to Mulvey.

I was hopeful he would make some sort of jump this year but it appears he hasn't and if he doesn't start doing more in his opportunities, he might be in trouble.
 

owenhawk

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Right now Connor is the better player.

Never thought that would be the case.

Got to give huge credit to Connor for fixing his shot in one off season.

I imagine the way he was not being defended last year was a big motivator.
If Connor keeps shooting anywhere close to how he has been, he really is a very good all-around player at this point. Just watching him live and close to the action, he does so many little things well. Defensively, he cut off drives a number of times against smaller, quicker guys and he can than transition to body up and isn't afraid of bigger guys. Has always been a good passer and decision-maker.
 

perryhawk

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If Connor keeps shooting anywhere close to how he has been, he really is a very good all-around player at this point. Just watching him live and close to the action, he does so many little things well. Defensively, he cut off drives a number of times against smaller, quicker guys and he can than transition to body up and isn't afraid of bigger guys. Has always been a good passer and decision-maker.
100% agreement.....I can't remember which poster it was, but I had an exchange with someone who declared for certain that Connor could not fix his shot..that he was what he was.

My contention was that if he was completely healthy AND he got to spend all summer working on his basketball game we could very well see a completely different shooter...that poster did not consider that possible.

What this string of thought also establishes is that Connor was never on the floor for just his shooting.....that he is a multiskilled player and last night (if people were watching late in the game) you could see him directing players where to be and what to do on the floor....he truly is a coach on the floor. He is a huge asset to this team even when his shot isn't falling.
 

owenhawk

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100% agreement.....I can't remember which poster it was, but I had an exchange with someone who declared for certain that Connor could not fix his shot..that he was what he was.

My contention was that if he was completely healthy AND he got to spend all summer working on his basketball game we could very well see a completely different shooter...that poster did not consider that possible.

What this string of thought also establishes is that Connor was never on the floor for just his shooting.....that he is a multiskilled player and last night (if people were watching late in the game) you could see him directing players where to be and what to do on the floor....he truly is a coach on the floor. He is a huge asset to this team even when his shot isn't falling.
100% correct