Has anyone actually seen someone use the chairlift to get into the pool?

UNIowaHawk

HR Legend
Jul 22, 2011
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Then you bitched about having to pay for it. Move to another place and get your own pool where you don’t have to pay for it if you don’t like it.
That’s not bitching, that just stating a fact. Our HOA pays to have each inspected every year and to date, I have never seen them used once. Simple fact.
 
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stout1

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Jan 21, 2004
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HOAs may be the craziest version of local governance I’ve ever encountered.

Lots of self-important people, making rules and annoying others.

Buy some ground and control your own living situation outside of shit neighborhoods. And I don’t care how much the homes cost, if you’re building on less than an acre in a neighborhood that was pre-planned with an HOA, it is a terrible place to live.
 

Joes Place

HR King
Aug 28, 2003
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1. ADA does not apply to HOA’s that are private.
Again: I'm not referring to a "non HOA member" access.

The legal advice provided on a similar issue was that they WILL apply when a family with a disabled member asks for equal access, within the association, NOT to their personal condo within the HOA.

Now, as an HOA you can ignore that request, but if they take you to court, good luck, because a prior association I was on the board for (and did not have a lawsuit, but had this question pop up) was advised differently than what you are claiming here.
 

artradley

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Apr 26, 2013
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Again: I'm not referring to a "non HOA member" access.

The legal advice provided on a similar issue was that they WILL apply when a family with a disabled member asks for equal access, within the association, NOT to their personal condo within the HOA.

Now, as an HOA you can ignore that request, but if they take you to court, good luck, because a prior association I was on the board for (and did not have a lawsuit, but had this question pop up) was advised differently than what you are claiming here.

Again, you are wrong as an objective fact. Read the links you have been provided.

1. ADA does not apply to HOA's.

2. Based on FFHA they can ask their HOA to adjust their rules to make reasonable accommodations. And the resident may, at their own expense and coordinated with the HOA, make structural accommodations to the common areas to allow access.

But no law forces a private HOA to foot the bill to make accommodations on either the private residence or the common areas.
 

artradley

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Apr 26, 2013
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Well, I'm going with the advice an actual HOA lawyer representing our HOA with a pool and hot tub ~20 years ago told us.

I can assure you that no attorney told you that ADA required a chair lift in a swimming pool twenty years ago.
 
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Joes Place

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I can assure you that no attorney told you that ADA required a chair lift in a swimming pool twenty years ago.

The attorney advised that NOT having disabled access was a risk to the HOA at the time, for a number of reasons. "ADA" explicitly was not the law being brought up.

And the lawyer advised that if an owner with a disability or disabled child was unable to access common areas, the HOA would not win a legal suit. And if a disabled child was injured trying to access a common area, the existing insurance policy may not be adequate to cover a lawsuit.

So, you can link whatever you want here. I remember what our lawyer advised about.

I was not in that HOA for much longer because I sold and moved for other reasons, so I have no idea what they decided to do.
 

NCHawk5

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The attorney advised that NOT having disabled access was a risk to the HOA at the time, for a number of reasons. "ADA" explicitly was not the law being brought up.

And the lawyer advised that if an owner with a disability or disabled child was unable to access common areas, the HOA would not win a legal suit. And if a disabled child was injured trying to access a common area, the existing insurance policy may not be adequate to cover a lawsuit.

So, you can link whatever you want here. I remember what our lawyer advised about.

I was not in that HOA for much longer because I sold and moved for other reasons, so I have no idea what they decided to do.
You’re wrong. You should be used to it by now. Just abandon the thread like usual.
 

NCHawk5

HR Heisman
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You are too bitching about it. Have you observed the pool 24 hours per day, 7 days per week?

Shut up and deal with it. You come across sounding like a real prick.
Truly a pathetic take by the OP.
 

UNIowaHawk

HR Legend
Jul 22, 2011
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You are too bitching about it. Have you observed the pool 24 hours per day, 7 days per week?

Shut up and deal with it. You come across sounding like a real prick.
LOL, what? I’ve never seen a bear shit in the woods either. Nor has anyone I know. I’m not saying bears don’t shit in the woods, just asking if anyone has actually seen it.
JFC, get off your high horse and learn how to read the actual content and not try and connect dots that don’t exist for your attention-whoring wants and needs.
 
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mstp1992

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Dec 10, 2011
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Cedar Rapids -- Iowa City
faseb.org
LOL, what? I’ve never seen a bear shit in the woods either. Nor has anyone I know. I’m not saying bears don’t shit in the woods, just asking if anyone has actually seen it.
JFC, get off your high horse and learn how to read the actual content and not try and connect dots that don’t exist for your attention-whoring wants and needs.
I'm not complaining about the bear, however.

You're obviously, an attention whore, bitching and moaning about a little expense that could potentially benefit someone less fortunate than you. If that's an indication of me sitting on a high horse, then I'll gladly look down on you all the time.
 

Colonoscopy

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QExs.gif
 

Pinehawk

HR Legend
Sep 16, 2003
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Art is correct on this, and Joe is wrong.

The ADA lift is required for pools deemed to be 'public'.

I always thought it was a bigger liability to offer a lift in public pools without lifegaurds (hotels, apartment complexes). Seems like a terrible idea to allow a disabled person easy access to lower themselves into a pool, potentially alone, without a lifeguard on duty. But, it's the law.
 

Colonoscopy

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Art is correct on this, and Joe is wrong.

The ADA lift is required for pools deemed to be 'public'.

I always thought it was a bigger liability to offer a lift in public pools without lifegaurds (hotels, apartment complexes). Seems like a terrible idea to allow a disabled person easy access to lower themselves into a pool, potentially alone, without a lifeguard on duty. But, it's the law.

So if I'm in a wheel chair I can go to any HOA pool I want?
 

goldmom

HR Legend
Mar 29, 2002
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I can assure you that no attorney told you that ADA required a chair lift in a swimming pool twenty years ago.
Correct.
The issue did not even exist twenty years ago.

AGAIN - for those who are challenged with comprehension (or they’re old curmudgeons full of 💩) and didn’t have Sister Mary Annette as their reading teacher, I am NOT against having access equipment for those who need assistance getting in or out of the water.
OP asked about HOA pools and I do have a history and knowledge in this area. In Florida anyway.
If a person with a special need moves into a community and they file a request for access then it would be reviewed and most likely handled by HOA attorneys. But think about this - logically - if you’re looking at homes in an HOA with a pool, wouldn’t you seek one out that has that equipment already present? And all things equal would you not favor that community in the final selection? And most folks with physical challenges are well aware of the law as it relates to access. It’s just as easy for them to go to the city pool or the Y and often better because there are persons there who have some training and experience in assisting them.
Best tip: if you can afford a home in an HOA you can afford a home with a pool outside an HOA where you can install your own access chair.
 

goldmom

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Mar 29, 2002
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So if I'm in a wheel chair I can go to any HOA pool I want?

They all have gates with ramps that allow you to get into the pool area but depending on whether you live in Minnesota and it’s warm enough to swim between July 1-15 they may have an access chair. But in Florida there are few HOA/COA’s where they’ve been installed.
 

Joes Place

HR King
Aug 28, 2003
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I can assure you that no attorney told you that ADA required a chair lift in a swimming pool twenty years ago.
They weren't discussing a "chair lift"; but the concept here is the same.

The solution doesn't have to be "only a chair lift", it has to be accommodation for access, when someone is paying the same dues as everyone else.

Again: talk to a lawyer who works with HOAs and see what they tell you. Their job is to advise both on "laws" and "economic risks" to your organization. Particularly ones that your HOA insurance may not fully cover.
 
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artradley

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Apr 26, 2013
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They weren't discussing a "chair lift"; but the concept here is the same.

The solution doesn't have to be "only a chair lift", it has to be accommodation for access, when someone is paying the same dues as everyone else.

Again: talk to a lawyer who works with HOAs and see what they tell you. Their job is to advise both on "laws" and "economic risks" to your organization. Particularly ones that your HOA insurance may not fully cover.

As I have already told you, I have had recent discussions with HOA attorneys, including one that handles most of the HOA’s in our state. You have also been provided with explanations from HOA attorneys in this thread. This is established law. You are simply arguing up is down.
 

Derekd3408

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Feb 10, 2011
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I've never seen an actual handicap person use one, but have seen a few drunks testing them out. I can't recall any of the public pools I've been to in the past having them, I've really only seen them in the pools and hot tubs at hotels.
 

Joes Place

HR King
Aug 28, 2003
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As I have already told you, I have had recent discussions with HOA attorneys

And if you're limiting the discussion to ONLY "ADA compliance", then your lawyers are right.

I'm pointing out for you that there are OTHER legal risks that your HOA is taking on with respect to HOA members with disabilities and providing accommodations. Perhaps you should ask them specifically on those issues, rather than limit their opinions to only one law.
 

artradley

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Apr 26, 2013
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And if you're limiting the discussion to ONLY "ADA compliance", then your lawyers are right.

I'm pointing out for you that there are OTHER legal risks that your HOA is taking on with respect to HOA members with disabilities and providing accommodations. Perhaps you should ask them specifically on those issues, rather than limit their opinions to only one law.

You are just making this shit up. You started by saying these accommodations were required by federal law. I have demonstrated that they are not. Now you are just flailing, insisting with no evidence that regardless of federal law HOA’s have to make accommodations at their own expense. Even though (see below) that is exactly the opposite of what HOA attorneys say. Tell me, do you have any example of an HOA being successfully sued for this kind of thing? That is, a private HOA sued for not, at their own expense, providing accommodations to common areas? Because otherwise you are just stomping your feet demanding that you are right.

Under the FFHA, a HOA may not legally refuse to make reasonable accommodations in its rules or policies when such accommodations may be necessary for a disabled owner to fully enjoy and use her unit. An example would include when a disabled owner requires the assistance of a service animal; a HOA would be obligated to grant a waiver from its “no pets” rule. The HOA ‘s refusal to make such an accommodation (one that is reasonable and necessary to afford a disabled owner the full enjoyment and use of her unit) is deemed to be discrimination under the FFHA. The FFHA also requires HOAs to permit a disabled owner to make, at such owner’s expense, reasonable modifications to the owner’s unit and HOA common areas.
 

Joes Place

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Aug 28, 2003
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You are just making this shit up. You started by saying these accommodations were required by federal law.
In SOME cases, THEY ARE

In OTHER cases, where they ARE NOT, the HOAs still carry civil risks from disabled homeowners.

Been trying to make this clear to you, and it is not uniform in all states. No idea what state the OP is referring to, but it is advisable for any HOA to obtain advisement on MORE than just the ADA laws when considering risks to their community.
 
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Joes Place

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insisting with no evidence that regardless of federal law HOA’s have to make accommodations at their own expense

The lawyer's general comment was something to the tune of "I've never seen an HOA win a case brought by a disabled resident" regarding an access issue. So, you can take that for what it's worth.

Perhaps in the smaller, cheap complexes, you're right. The ones I've been on the boards of have $600k-$1M+ homes. Rich people with disabilities or disabled children are more than willing to pay 5-6 figures in legal fees to get what they want/need for their kids. Partly for their families, partly on principle.

The other comment made was that any HOA providing disabled access opens up the housing markets to folks with disabled kids, and the affluent ones are more than willing to outbid non-disabled folks for a home in an HOA that meets their needs. In other words, the lawyer was pointing out economic, long-term benefits for doing it, aside from mitigating risks.

Again, you can listen to that advice, or you can ignore it. The HOA lawyers get paid either way.
 

goldmom

HR Legend
Mar 29, 2002
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one of my HOA’s had a large playground that was fenced in. We met the legal requirements to provide “access” to the playground for wheelchairs. Where access ended...because the required surface around play equipment is a soft plastic mulch material not able to support wheels. Best intents meets reality.
 

Colonoscopy

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one of my HOA’s had a large playground that was fenced in. We met the legal requirements to provide “access” to the playground for wheelchairs. Where access ended...because the required surface around play equipment is a soft plastic mulch material not able to support wheels. Best intents meets reality.

If you're in a wheelchair do they have a special opening for you to get through the fence... asking for a friend.
 

artradley

HR Legend
Apr 26, 2013
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The lawyer's general comment was something to the tune of "I've never seen an HOA win a case brought by a disabled resident" regarding an access issue. So, you can take that for what it's worth.

Perhaps in the smaller, cheap complexes, you're right. The ones I've been on the boards of have $600k-$1M+ homes. Rich people with disabilities or disabled children are more than willing to pay 5-6 figures in legal fees to get what they want/need for their kids. Partly for their families, partly on principle.

The other comment made was that any HOA providing disabled access opens up the housing markets to folks with disabled kids, and the affluent ones are more than willing to outbid non-disabled folks for a home in an HOA that meets their needs. In other words, the lawyer was pointing out economic, long-term benefits for doing it, aside from mitigating risks.

Again, you can listen to that advice, or you can ignore it. The HOA lawyers get paid either way.

Lol. Fair housing laws don’t change based on property values. Face it, you were wrong. All you are left with is a hypothetical lawsuit for which you are unable to show any examples.
 

UNIowaHawk

HR Legend
Jul 22, 2011
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I've never seen an actual handicap person use one, but have seen a few drunks testing them out. I can't recall any of the public pools I've been to in the past having them, I've really only seen them in the pools and hot tubs at hotels.
Thanks for actually answering the damn question instead of attention whoring and making it something that it’s not 🤣
 
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