Hell To Pay: Operation Downfall And The Invasion Of Japan

[lucas80]

I just finished the updated edition of this book by D. M Giangreco, and despite it being a tad tedious with a lot of tables and the such, it's a worthwhile read. It's pretty stunning read the organizational depth of planning for the invasion of Japan, and the scope of the positioning of men and material. The author goes into great depth about the trouble the US was having meeting it's increasing manpower needs via the draft in 1945, and how shifting forces from Europe to the Pacific was barely getting started when the war ended.
A couple of things I didn't know, or at least had forgotten. The US had stockpiled chemical weapons in the Pacific in anticipation they might have been used. There were concerns that the Navy would not be able to provide enough carrier support due to the increased tempo of activity, maintenance needs, and some ships being cancelled in anticipation of the war ending. After the first two atomic bombs were used, MacArthur insisted that the 8 potential bombs be reserved for tactical use in the invasion. Far from being starved of material and supplies, the Japanese were well fortified to defend the Home Islands. As an example we thought the Japanese were out of aviation gasoline for the most part, but they had stockpiled enough to launch up to 15,000 kamikaze strikes on the invasion fleet and provide for air operations. The US had a massive plan to secretly collect, process, and transport blood and plasma starting 3 weeks before the invasion from select cities in the US to the Pacific and get it on specialized ships to transport and hold it off the coast of Japan.
Overall just lots of good stuff about the mechanics and planing for the invasion.

 

[NCHawk5]

They’re psychos that nukes did a favor for. Have to love their identity as Japanese, and willingness to defend it.

I’ve always thought the war in the pacific was a bit of a fighting guys that we actually could agree with situation- but we fd them, they fd us, and we’re back to square 1 with the inbreds in china holding too much power.

They’re similar to us when facing a foreign power- guaranteed WW2 going axis way would have eventually led to every man you see every day in your daily life grabbing a gun and making them earn it- and they’d never win.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

The nukes saved lives.

the fire bombings killed more than the nukes.

every American pow would have been executed as soon as the invasion started.

 

[NCHawk5]

The nukes saved lives.

the fire bombings killed more than the nukes.

every American pow would have been executed as soon as the invasion started.

Amen bro, amen. But you have to respect the Japanese over this, and hell, let’s give them nukes and tell them deal with china yourself🙃. They’ve dealt with the inbreds for quite some time, and the ultimate fu to China is giving Japan the ability to respond. F the CCP. F coronavirus. F everything they stand for.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

I just finished the updated edition of this book by D. M Giangreco, and despite it being a tad tedious with a lot of tables and the such, it's a worthwhile read. It's pretty stunning read the organizational depth of planning for the invasion of Japan, and the scope of the positioning of men and material. The author goes into great depth about the trouble the US was having meeting it's increasing manpower needs via the draft in 1945, and how shifting forces from Europe to the Pacific was barely getting started when the war ended.
A couple of things I didn't know, or at least had forgotten. The US had stockpiled chemical weapons in the Pacific in anticipation they might have been used. There were concerns that the Navy would not be able to provide enough carrier support due to the increased tempo of activity, maintenance needs, and some ships being cancelled in anticipation of the war ending. After the first two atomic bombs were used, MacArthur insisted that the 8 potential bombs be reserved for tactical use in the invasion. Far from being starved of material and supplies, the Japanese were well fortified to defend the Home Islands. As an example we thought the Japanese were out of aviation gasoline for the most part, but they had stockpiled enough to launch up to 15,000 kamikaze strikes on the invasion fleet and provide for air operations. The US had a massive plan to secretly collect, process, and transport blood and plasma starting 3 weeks before the invasion from select cities in the US to the Pacific and get it on specialized ships to transport and hold it off the coast of Japan.
Overall just lots of good stuff about the mechanics and planing for the invasion.

Great book

 

[BubsFinn]

They’re psychos that nukes did a favor for. Have to love their identity as Japanese, and willingness to defend it.

I’ve always thought the war in the pacific was a bit of a fighting guys that we actually could agree with situation- but we fd them, they fd us, and we’re back to square 1 with the inbreds in china holding too much power.

They’re similar to us when facing a foreign power- guaranteed WW2 going axis way would have eventually led to every man you see every day in your daily life grabbing a gun and making them earn it- and they’d never win.

Their identity as Japanese was the problem. Their identity was one of ethnic purity and superiority. (not at all uncommon globally). The Japanese were not guys we could agree with. They were brutalizing anyone in the Pacific that wasn't them. What they did in the Philippines was nothing short of barbaric. What they did in Nanjing was even worse. They had to be stopped. And I would say they ultimately did themselves a favor by attacking Pearl Harbor and bringing us into the war.
But yes, dropping the Bombs on them probably saved 50x the lives is cost.

And Japan may very well have had aviation fuel, but they were quickly running out of qualified pilots. All that av gas doesn't do any good if there's no one in the cockpit.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

I just finished the updated edition of this book by D. M Giangreco, and despite it being a tad tedious with a lot of tables and the such, it's a worthwhile read. It's pretty stunning read the organizational depth of planning for the invasion of Japan, and the scope of the positioning of men and material. The author goes into great depth about the trouble the US was having meeting it's increasing manpower needs via the draft in 1945, and how shifting forces from Europe to the Pacific was barely getting started when the war ended.
A couple of things I didn't know, or at least had forgotten. The US had stockpiled chemical weapons in the Pacific in anticipation they might have been used. There were concerns that the Navy would not be able to provide enough carrier support due to the increased tempo of activity, maintenance needs, and some ships being cancelled in anticipation of the war ending. After the first two atomic bombs were used, MacArthur insisted that the 8 potential bombs be reserved for tactical use in the invasion. Far from being starved of material and supplies, the Japanese were well fortified to defend the Home Islands. As an example we thought the Japanese were out of aviation gasoline for the most part, but they had stockpiled enough to launch up to 15,000 kamikaze strikes on the invasion fleet and provide for air operations. The US had a massive plan to secretly collect, process, and transport blood and plasma starting 3 weeks before the invasion from select cities in the US to the Pacific and get it on specialized ships to transport and hold it off the coast of Japan.
Overall just lots of good stuff about the mechanics and planing for the invasion.

I believe we are still using the stockpile of purple hearts that was ordered in anticipation of that invasion.

The atomic bomb was the right call. It saved lives.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

One of the big arguments is/was that the United States should have given Japan a demo of the nuke on a deserted island.

United States only had enough tech and material for a very limited number.

they didn’t even know if it would work. Blowing up a bomb on a tower where you can stage it for days is a lot different than dropping it from a plane.

if Hiroshima didn’t get them to surrender I seriously doubt a demo would have.

hell, Japanese military tried to stop the Emperor’s recording of surrender from being broadcasted.

I suggest you listen to Dan Carlins podcast series on the rise and fall of Japan. The things they did to pows was tough to listen to almost 80 years later. Couple they come to mind. Putting pow’s in cages and throwing them in ocean to drown. Another group pulled an American into a cave and sliced between their fingers all the way up to their wrists to torture them and get other soldiers to attempt a rescue so they could kill them.

frankly, after enough stories like this Japan got off easy. A lot more military people and politicians should have been hung Nuremberg style. MacArthur is very overrated as a general but I commend him on his restraint during the occupation of Japan.

 

[lucas80]

I believe we are still using the stockpile of purple hearts that was ordered in anticipation of that invasion.

The atomic bomb was the right call. It saved lives.

Yes. Soldiers coming back from Afghanistan and Iraq were issued WW2 surplus medals. That's craftsmanship. Fun fact, the US Mint made the components.

 

[ihhawk]

My grandfather hated the Japanese right up until his death at 87 years old.

 

[Herky T Hawk]

Yes. Soldiers coming back from Afghanistan and Iraq were issued WW2 surplus medals. That's craftsmanship. Fun fact, the US Mint made the components.

They finally started issuing new ones not from the Japan invasion order about a decade go.

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

My grandfather hated the Japanese right up until his death at 87 years old.

Well my 95 year old WWII vet father is still keeping the hate going for ya. " F those little Nippers" Mitsubishi made the Jap Zero you know...

 

[ihhawk]

Well my 95 year old WWII vet father is still keeping the hate going for ya. " F those little Nippers" Mitsubishi made the Jap Zero you know...

What they saw over there I wouldn’t wish on anyone. He mentioned later in life that when he smelled diesel fuel he had flash backs