History debates. part one

[Jimmy McGill]

Debates on a particular subject end after one week. Try to have some facts behind your viewpoints, this isn't tik tok

@

ft254 and @Jimmy McGill are the judges. If there is a split decision, @Tenacious E is the decider​

Part one:

What is the biggest reason our roaring 1950's economy had such a success. There are plenty of findings suggesting similar conclusions. So give your reasons, and why the New Deal initiatives should not be given as much credit

 

[Hawkman98]

Debates on a particular subject end after one week. Try to have some facts behind your viewpoints, this isn't tik tok

@

ft254 and @Jimmy McGill are the judges. If there is a split decision, @Tenacious E is the decider​

Part one:

What is the biggest reason our roaring 1950's economy had such a success. There are plenty of findings suggesting similar conclusions. So give your reasons, and why the New Deal initiatives should not be given as much credit

This is too complicated. Do you have questions on why moms are such whores?

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Unions. One person working a factory job could have a family, a car, a house. They could furnish that house and buy “luxuries”. Good pay created demand for all kinds of things which those same workers were paid well to supply.

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

WW2 decimated most of the major economies around the world and many hadn’t recovered yet.

Everyone was importing US products.

 

[Aardvark86]

WW2 decimated most of the major economies around the world and many hadn’t recovered yet.

Everyone was importing US products.

1. This (and particularly, the Marshall plan had as a specific and important goal the creation of a purchaser trading partner)
2. The construction of the interstate highway system (anybody who knows an ounce of us Econ history knows that distribution has always been our superpower)
3. The new deal was a distant memory after wwii, and even the surviving alphabet agencies were slaves to the god of commerce.

Separately, while a little later, the scope of the Apollo program was much much bigger than most people realize.

 

[goldmom]

WW2 decimated most of the major economies around the world and many hadn’t recovered yet.

Everyone was importing US products.

Yep. When bombing raids and relentless ( but necessary) warfare destroy everything of the enemy’s it tends to make you the big dog on the block. It was us or nobody and we grew even bigger in leading the way.
We helped restore the economy of Japan and Germany by occupying their countries, spending billions to rebuild their devastated economy by using products made in the USA by our workforce - millions of veterans who just wanted a secure job. It created a unique time and place and mindset with a former military hero as President. It’s the America that Boomers grew up in. Structured and idealistic.

80 years later here we are. Entire generations of some European countries have never existed not sleeping under our “mantle of protection”. We’ve enabled them to prosper and provide benefits like universal health care to their citizens that we can’t afford to provide for our own.

 

[BubsFinn]

WW2 decimated most of the major economies around the world and many hadn’t recovered yet.

Everyone was importing US products.

Pretty much this. The world was in shambles and the US was the only one with a manufacturing based economy that didn't have to rebuild its infrastructure. The world needed a whole lot of stuff and we were still in position to sell it to them.

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

Pent up demand of almost 2 decades of depression and return of 16 million servicemen from war. Likely some women who were almost forced into the work place during the war decided working was a better existence than a housewife was so double incomes moved towards the norm. To stem the rise of inflation the government implemented wage and price controls which gave birth to the employer based insurance system we ended up with. It was a way to end run the wage controls imposed by the government. Remember that a war economy is inflationary by nature. Money flows to the workers in the war machine industries yet they are not producing a consumer product, hence you have more dollars chasing the same amount of goods and services, therefore prices rise rapidly and the economy overheats...

 

[binsfeldcyhawk2]

Yep. When bombing raids and relentless ( but necessary) warfare destroy everything of the enemy’s it tends to make you the big dog on the block. It was us or nobody and we grew even bigger in leading the way.
We helped restore the economy of Japan and Germany by occupying their countries, spending billions to rebuild their devastated economy by using products made in the USA by our workforce - millions of veterans who just wanted a secure job. It created a unique time and place and mindset with a former military hero as President. It’s the America that Boomers grew up in. Structured and idealistic.

80 years later here we are. Entire generations of some European countries have never existed not sleeping under our “mantle of protection”. We’ve enabled them to prosper and provide benefits like universal health care to their citizens that we can’t afford to provide for our own.

I think the Marshal Plan was mutually beneficial.
They have universal health care that’s paid for by really high taxes….compared to the US.

 

[Jerome Silberman]

Everywhere else in the world was dead and burned.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

WW2 decimated most of the major economies around the world and many hadn’t recovered yet.

Everyone was importing US products.

That supply could have enriched a few people here while leaving the masses unable to take part. We've been there before and since. The 50's boom HERE occurred because we created a huge manufacturing-based middle class that could consume the products they were producing. For the first time in the country's history, vast numbers of people could create and hold wealth.

 

[stillh8unlv]

Same reason every other conquering nation in the annals of history prospered.

The 50's we're not unique, they just happened to occur in our frame of reference

 

[RollingBallofButcherKnives]

A lot of lessons were learned between WW1 and WW2. The decades following WW2 reflected that and the economies boomed…

 

[NorthernHawkeye]

Debates on a particular subject end after one week. Try to have some facts behind your viewpoints, this isn't tik tok

@

ft254 and @Jimmy McGill are the judges. If there is a split decision, @Tenacious E is the decider​

Part one:

What is the biggest reason our roaring 1950's economy had such a success. There are plenty of findings suggesting similar conclusions. So give your reasons, and why the New Deal initiatives should not be given as much credit

You appointed yourself as judge? You tagged yourself?

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

The music started getting better, and women started loosening up. Everyone was happy.

There have been countless documentaries about it.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Same reason every other conquering nation in the annals of history prospered.

The 50's we're not unique, they just happened to occur in our frame of reference

If we're talking about the specific boom of the 50's, it was unique. The GI Bill helped create the most educated population in the history of the country and the FHA made home ownership easily attainable (though both overwhelmingly favored a single segment of the population). And, as noted above, the benefits were shared far more widely than ever before. On top of all that, the tax code made hoarding extreme wealth far more difficult.

 

[Tenacious E]

Be

Debates on a particular subject end after one week. Try to have some facts behind your viewpoints, this isn't tik tok

@

ft254 and @Jimmy McGill are the judges. If there is a split decision, @Tenacious E is the decider​

Part one:

What is the biggest reason our roaring 1950's economy had such a success. There are plenty of findings suggesting similar conclusions. So give your reasons, and why the New Deal initiatives should not be given as much credit

Being functionally illiterate in history compared to most of you who are inclined participate in this thread, I would be happy to be the final arbiter.

 

[goldmom]

I think the Marshal Plan was mutually beneficial.
They have universal health care that’s paid for by really high taxes….compared to the US.

And they are able to divert those taxes to things other than the military.

 

[Tenacious E]

Pent up demand of almost 2 decades of depression and return of 16 million servicemen from war. Likely some women who were almost forced into the work place during the war decided working was a better existence than a housewife was so double incomes moved towards the norm. To stem the rise of inflation the government implemented wage and price controls which gave birth to the employer based insurance system we ended up with. It was a way to end run the wage controls imposed by the government. Remember that a war economy is inflationary by nature. Money flows to the workers in the war machine industries yet they are not producing a consumer product, hence you have more dollars chasing the same amount of goods and services, therefore prices rise rapidly and the economy overheats...

this was AI generated, I assume.

 

[joelbc1]

The US was the primary financial and technical source for the world coming out of WW2. No damage to the homeland and a strong, recently built industrial base with plenty of returning workers allowed the US to naturally assume this leadership position. Plus, the GI bill allowed the US to build up its professional class of workers and to efficiently educate its citizens for their future following WW2.

 

[baddog25]

Unions. One person working a factory job could have a family, a car, a house. They could furnish that house and buy “luxuries”. Good pay created demand for all kinds of things which those same workers were paid well to supply.

agree. back then 38% of private company workers belonged to a union as opposed to todays 8/9%. and those companies that had no union were forced to treat their workers better to keep the union out.

 

[joelbc1]

agree. back then 38% of private company workers belonged to a union as opposed to todays 8/9%. and those companies that had no union were forced to treat their workers better to keep the union out.

The latter is important to remember. The two major banydactueers in my hometown are non-union but have always paid higher end wages/benfits to their employees. In fact one of them has “welders” traveling to their plant daily from Mizzery fir work because if the wages they pay.
You don’t have to have a union to be paid well but you do need a smarter than average owner/employer who understands this.

 

[LuteHawk]

1. In three of the eight Eisenhower fiscal years the federal budget
was balanced. And a new record of 65 million people were gainfully
employed in America

2, Labor unions were strong and in 1955 the merger of AFL and CIO
brought 15 million union workers together. They got a "guaranteed
annual wage" for auto workers at Ford and General Motors

3. U.S. Congress passed in 1956, the Interstate Highway Act which was
a 25 billion dollar allotment for the next 12 years for 41,000 miles.

Bottom Line: When you have record employment and record wages,
then you have a booming economy. Our citizens had faith in Washington D.C..

 

[Jimmy McGill]

A lot of good posts. This is going to be tough.

 

[Jimmy McGill]

Just a little thing to not shrug your shoulders at: Desegregation of the armed forces.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

A lot of good posts. This is going to be tough.

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

GI bill led to a boom in the higher education industry in the 50's also. The union argument is also valid, but I don't believe union membership included government workers. This is what caused the angst against the union in general, when the union worked it's way into the public sector, then politicians could woo this demographic's vote with promises of financial rewards for votes...

this was AI generated, I assume.

I'll take this as somewhat of a compliment, I think...

 

[onlyTheObvious]

WW2 decimated most of the major economies around the world and many hadn’t recovered yet.

Everyone was importing US products.

End of thread.

 

[wausauhawk]

We’ve enabled them to prosper and provide benefits like universal health care to their citizens that we can’t afford to provide for our own.

We absolutely could afford to provide universal Healthcare. We've decided not too.

 

[goldmom]

We absolutely could afford to provide universal Healthcare. We've decided not too.

I do think it could be done also. We could fund it if we made some different choices in our budget. That is, if we forced our elected representatives to make some choices.

 

[goldmom]

GI bill led to a boom in the higher education industry in the 50's also. The union argument is also valid, but I don't believe union membership included government workers. This is what caused the angst against the union in general, when the union worked it's way into the public sector, then politicians could woo this demographic's vote with promises of financial rewards for votes...


I'll take this as somewhat of a compliment, I think...

I believe it was JFK who favored government workers being allowed to have collective bargaining?

 

[Tenacious E]

GI bill led to a boom in the higher education industry in the 50's also. The union argument is also valid, but I don't believe union membership included government workers. This is what caused the angst against the union in general, when the union worked it's way into the public sector, then politicians could woo this demographic's vote with promises of financial rewards for votes...


I'll take this as somewhat of a compliment, I think...

That’s something an AI overlord would say…

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

That’s something an AI overlord would say…

 

[Jimmy McGill]

GI Bill definitely played a part. I don't see it as the primary reason. College was cheap as hell back in those days.

 

[Jimmy McGill]

Bump.

How can extreme cons say high taxes are a problem.

 

[Aardvark86]

GI Bill definitely played a part. I don't see it as the primary reason. College was cheap as hell back in those days.

Funny gi bill and union intersection story.

When my dad came back from ww2 (cv4) to his coal mining town, he enrolled at Indiana university of pa to become a science teacher (since his baseball contract offer didn’t allow him to leave for school in the fall). One day, as he was getting ready to travel to school, one of his friends who worked in the mines saw him on the street and called to come give him a hand with a project. My dad asked what was up. His friend said they were going to blow up the coal tipple. My dad went to school that day.

Gi bill ftw over unions in the rankings.

 

[10kHawk]

We nuked Japan, Russia built an arsenal, kids practicing hiding under their desks. Everyone realized life was short and you could get flash fried in a instant so might as well live it up today, spend spend spend

 

[goldmom]

Bump.

How can extreme cons say high taxes are a problem.

Hardly ANYONE paid taxes at those rates. The number of deductions available back then brought the actual rates waaaay down.
One example - Most of you weren’t even born then to remember you could deduct any interest paid on a credit or a gas card.

 

[joelbc1]

Hardly ANYONE paid taxes at those rates. The number of deductions available back then brought the actual rates waaaay down.
One example - Most of you weren’t even born then to remember you could deduct any interest paid on a credit or a gas card.

“Taxes” are a glorified shell game. It takes $$ to run a country and the $$ is gonna come from somewhere….no money results in deficits and/or cuts in services. Iowans are gonna find this out in a couple of years. Reduction in rates for all and no taxes on social security and retirement funds…..someone’s taxes somewhere are gonna go up…..
Pols claim Iowa’s tax rates were some of the highest in the nation…..fact is Iowa’s tax rate rannks 26th in the nation….yes we’re are “high” in income taxes, but others tax rates are comparatively lower than most. These lower rates are gonna have to replace lost income tax revenues….or else services will be lost. Pretty simple.

 

[FAUlty Gator]

We moved back from war productions to consumer needs and pretty much manufactured 80% of everything on earth. Jobs were easy to come by. Credit was flowing. Purchasing power was at an all time high. And the people running the country were the same ones who volunteered to charge machine gun nests on Normandy.