Holy Shit, Wisconsin got Jobbed!!!....

[Joes Place]

In other news....the tax cuts and incentives (roads improvements, eminent domain) Wisconsin gave up to FoxConn over the next 40 years WOULD HAVE been enough money to fund a light rail between Milwaukee and Madison for >400 years (in another post made somewhere on the boards in the last 6 months)

That's an impressive level of GOP/Walker incompetence.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...e-lcd-panels-at-wisconsin-plant-idUSKCN1PO0FV

 

[longliveCS40]

Yikes! That's crazy.

 

[Joes Place]

...so, basically now this will be a 'technology hub' used to steal and outsource US-developed technology to send it back to China. For free. On Wisconsin's dime.

Kewl.

 

[St. Louis Hawk]

Top notch. Top notch!

 

[Wendy79]

Conn is right. But we all knew that from the start.

 

[sadiehawkins]

Wisconsin will be blue for a long time now.

 

[Pepperman]

This seems like a deal that went completely wrong. Reminds me of a lot of professional sports stadiums. Milwaukee's Miller Park is a prime example of that as well.

 

[BioHawk]

This seems like a deal that went completely wrong. Reminds me of a lot of professional sports stadiums. Milwaukee's Miller Park is a prime example of that as well.

I don't know know what the financing deal was for that but the $250 million cut out of the education budget so the Buck's new stadium was atrocious.

 

[Joes Place]

This seems like a deal that went completely wrong. Reminds me of a lot of professional sports stadiums. Milwaukee's Miller Park is a prime example of that as well.

Only, the magnitude here is 10x to 100x of what a typical 'stadium grift' is....

As I'd mentioned, Walked shuttered any plans for WI light rail as "too expensive" and someone ran the numbers on this grift, explaining it could have funded light rail, fully, for >400 years....

That's astounding.

 

[Menace Sockeyes]

Death, taxes, and job/economic growth being a fraction of what the corporations and politicians promise taxpayers.

 

[Joes Place]

Wisconsin will be blue for a long time now.

No....it'll be 'in the red' for a long time now....

 

[srams21]

This seems like a deal that went completely wrong. Reminds me of a lot of professional sports stadiums. Milwaukee's Miller Park is a prime example of that as well.

This is way worse than that.

Wisconsin taxpayers gave up their souls for Foxconn thanks to Walker and the GOP.

The company originally promised to employ 5,200 workers by the end of 2020, but Reuters now reports that this figure is closer to 1,000.

Foxconn was given exemptions from environmental regulations and subsidies worth $4.1 billion to create manufacturing jobs in Wisconsin.

1,000 jobs? That's it? All that for 1,000 jobs. Way to go GOP!

 

[HawkAttackDial911]

This is way worse than that.

Wisconsin taxpayers gave up their souls for Foxconn thanks to Walker and the GOP.

The company originally promised to employ 5,200 workers by the end of 2020, but Reuters now reports that this figure is closer to 1,000.

Foxconn was given exemptions from environmental regulations and subsidies worth $4.1 billion to create manufacturing jobs in Wisconsin.

1,000 jobs? That's it? All that for 1,000 jobs. Way to go GOP!

That works out to $4 million per job created. Yikes.

 

[joelbc1]

This seems like a deal that went completely wrong. Reminds me of a lot of professional sports stadiums. Milwaukee's Miller Park is a prime example of that as well.

At least the Brewers play baseball in America, though!

 

[gonegolfing]

And amazingly light rail is still a worse investment.

 

[ThorneStockton]

I wonder if there's a mechanism in the contract that they can essentially "undo" the deal. Seems it ain't what they bargained for.

 

[torbee]

Yeah, but Walker totally owned the libs and stuck it to public employee unions, so it’s a WIN!

 

[Rudolph]

I don't know know what the financing deal was for that but the $250 million cut out of the education budget so the Buck's new stadium was atrocious.

Milwaukee is very segregated. Makes it easier to find cuts to such nonsense as education.

 

[Joes Place]

And amazingly light rail is still a worse investment.

Not around Denver it ain't. I've got friends who live within a half mile of a stop, and they can get downtown for ballgames, weekends WAY faster than I can and for a fraction of the cost. And then don't need to worry about DUIs.

 

[Rudolph]

Not around Denver it ain't. I've got friends who live within a half mile of a stop, and they can get downtown for ballgames, weekends WAY faster than I can and for a fraction of the cost. And then don't need to worry about DUIs.

It’s amazing how dogmatically dumb that golfer is.

 

[JRHawk2003]

The whole thing is a lesson to states and cities about using incentives. The problem is that if one party decides not to use incentives, some other state or city will. They just expect property tax and state tax breaks now. They will often threaten to move also if they don't get breaks.

 

[Pepperman]

I wonder if there's a mechanism in the contract that they can essentially "undo" the deal. Seems it ain't what they bargained for.

This would make sense. Even if the original deal worked as planned, 5200 workers is like $750,000 per job. How does the average guy possibly generate enough economic activity to pay that back? Or maybe the assumption is the construction of the facility also creates jobs, but even then there is no chance that ever gets to a breakeven for the state.

Didn't Adel or Waukee just do the same thing, albeit on a MUCH lower scale, for some Apple project? I think it might just be a data center which really creates only a handful of jobs.

 

[torbee]

The whole thing is a lesson to states and cities about using incentives. The problem is that if one party decides not to use incentives, some other state or city will. They just expect property tax and state tax breaks now. They will often threaten to move also if they don't get breaks.

Your overall premise is 100 percent accurate, and it was something people in ec-dev jobs at every level of government struggle with. You have to be in the game, even thought the game is rigged,

That said, the Fox Conn deal was SOOOOOOO outrageously bad that only a complete chump like Walker and his cronies could get duped. Literally NO ONE else in the Midwest would have competed for that debacle. I still think Walker et al MUST have been getting kickbacks or something, as there is no other way to explain how badly they let the taxpayers of Wisconsin get bent over.

 

[JRHawk2003]

Your overall premise is 100 percent accurate, and it was something people in ec-dev jobs at every level of government struggle with. You have to be in the game, even thought the game is rigged,

That said, the Fox Conn deal was SOOOOOOO outrageously bad that only a complete chump like Walker and his cronies could get duped. Literally NO ONE else in the Midwest would have competed for that debacle. I still think Walker et al MUST have been getting kickbacks or something, as there is no other way to explain how badly they let the taxpayers of Wisconsin get bent over.

Remember Brandstad's fertilizer plant?

 

[torbee]

Remember Brandstad's fertilizer plant?

Pales in comparison and actually DID create some decent jobs in that portion of SE Iowa that was really economically depressed. That is a classic example of giving away quite a bit too much, but having some positive impact.

Fox Conn is going to be a yoke around the neck of SW Wisconsin for decades.

 

[JRHawk2003]

Pales in comparison and actually DID create some decent jobs in that portion of SE Iowa that was really economically depressed. That is a classic example of giving away quite a bit too much, but having some positive impact.

Fox Conn is going to be a yoke around the neck of SW Wisconsin for decades.

I understand Fox Conn is bad, but you are being too generous about the fertilizer plant. The cost benefit of that is horrible.

 

[Wendy79]

I still think Walker et al MUST have been getting kickbacks or something, as there is no other way to explain how badly they let the taxpayers of Wisconsin get bent over.

Oh, yeah. I'd love to see Walker's financial documents.

 

[torbee]

I understand Fox Conn is bad, but you are being too generous about the fertilizer plant. The cost benefit of that is horrible.

Oh I don't disagree. All I'm saying is the SCALE of the financial malfeasance in Wisconsin by comparison is insane. Like, one of the worst development deals perhaps in modern U.S. history.

 

[JRHawk2003]

Oh I don't disagree. All I'm saying is the SCALE of the financial malfeasance in Wisconsin by comparison is insane. Like, one of the worst development deals perhaps in modern U.S. history.

No doubt. When we look at a development agreement, you can insert clawback provisions if hiring numbers are not met, etc. A lot of times though the incentive comes in the form of infrastructure development, etc. and there is no getting that back.

I would be glad to not have to use incentives, but I will be damned if I would unilaterally disarm.

 

[srams21]

Oh I don't disagree. All I'm saying is the SCALE of the financial malfeasance in Wisconsin by comparison is insane. Like, one of the worst development deals perhaps in modern U.S. history.

Yea, The Foxconn deal might end up gong down as the worst one to date.

 

[torbee]

Yea, The Foxconn deal might end up gong down as the worst one to date.

There are really only two explanations. Either Walker and his advisers are complete morons that were duped or Walker and his advisers are crooks who gained from such a terribly one-sided deal. It literally has to be one or the other.

 

[srams21]

There are really only two explanations. Either Walker and his advisers are complete morons that were duped or Walker and his advisers are crooks who gained from such a terribly one-sided deal. It literally has to be one or the other.

It could be a combination of the two!

I also think Walker was obsessed with "creating jobs" and wanted to show that.

 

[NDallasRuss]

Not around Denver it ain't. I've got friends who live within a half mile of a stop, and they can get downtown for ballgames, weekends WAY faster than I can and for a fraction of the cost. And then don't need to worry about DUIs.

But the cost and convenience to your friend doesn't equate to light rail's value as an investment. What percentage of Denver's light rail/public ransportation is funded through farebox revenues, versus funding provided through taxpayer funds?

Per the (Denver) Regional Transportation District's 2018 adopted budget, operating revenues accounted for 12.3% of their total revenue, with the Sales and Use tax money accounting for 51.6% of revenue and Grants comprising 34.2%. So, people riding public transit only covered 12.3% of the total cost.

Link to the RTD 2018 Budget

 

[Joes Place]

But the cost and convenience to your friend doesn't equate to light rail's value as an investment. What percentage of Denver's light rail/public ransportation is funded through farebox revenues, versus funding provided through taxpayer funds?

Per the (Denver) Regional Transportation District's 2018 adopted budget, operating revenues accounted for 12.3% of their total revenue, with the Sales and Use tax money accounting for 51.6% of revenue and Grants comprising 34.2%. So, people riding public transit only covered 12.3% of the total cost.

Link to the RTD 2018 Budget

Kewl. Now go compare the roads budgets and % funding from local gas taxes.....cuz the result is gonna be the same.

 

[NDallasRuss]

Kewl. Now go compare the roads budgets and % funding from local gas taxes.....cuz the result is gonna be the same.

Without doing too much research, this article from 2017 says that "In Colorado, state and local taxes and fees collected from road users only cover half of what state and local governments spend on roads and bridges..."

Article Link

So yes, neither method is self-funding. Still, 50% is better than 12%.

It looks like Colorado hasn't raised their gas tax rate since 1993.

 

[Joes Place]

Without doing too much research, this article from 2017 says that "In Colorado, state and local taxes and fees collected from road users only cover half of what state and local governments spend on roads and bridges..."

Add in the federal money they get for funding roads, and I'd bet you're looking at a pretty close match....

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

This is way worse than that.

Wisconsin taxpayers gave up their souls for Foxconn thanks to Walker and the GOP.

The company originally promised to employ 5,200 workers by the end of 2020, but Reuters now reports that this figure is closer to 1,000.

Foxconn was given exemptions from environmental regulations and subsidies worth $4.1 billion to create manufacturing jobs in Wisconsin.

1,000 jobs? That's it? All that for 1,000 jobs. Way to go GOP!

I would definitely say the GOP are f***d in Wisconsin for the foreseeable future.

The question becomes when do other people wake up and realize "Voodoo Economics" doesn't work? (For those of you my age and younger, that's what the late George H.W. Bush called trickle-down-economics back in the day.)

It didn't work back then and it certainly doesn't work today. And without welfare for the wealthy, what else do the GOP got in terms of an economic agenda for America? I'm asking.

 

[tumorboy]

Foxconn deal should be the death blow to Walker's political future at least in Wisconsin. Key word should. Never underestimate the stupidity of voters.

 

[Tom Paris]

My brother in law voted for Walker...I am sure more than once. I can't wait to ask him about this.

 

[tumorboy]

I would definitely say the GOP are f***d in Wisconsin for the foreseeable future.

The question becomes when do other people wake up and realize "Voodoo Economics" doesn't work? (For those of you my age and younger, that's what the late George H.W. Bush called trickle-down-economics back in the day.)

It didn't work back then and it certainly doesn't work today. And without welfare for the wealthy, what else do the GOP got in terms of an economic agenda for America? I'm asking.

They've gerrymandered the heck out of the districts. Dems will need to win by high 60's to take control of house.