Holy Shit, Wisconsin got Jobbed!!!....
- Thread starter Joes Place
- Start date
Having worked on the private side of economic development incentives, that's typically the deal. Job creation and salary targets are typically part of the deal. For example, $X million tax rebates kicks in when X jobs are created at $X average salary.
I can't imaging that a multi-billion deal was reached without that being part of the deal. If so, someone should go to prison.
That was reached w/o being part of the deal. Along with gutting any local environmental restrictions/regs, and providing eminent domain powers to literally take people's houses in fairly recent developments to support the project (if that's not in those two Vanity Fair articles, I can dig around and find that link, as well).
This was all about overzealous and dogmatic legislators promising JOBS JOBS JOBS, w/o being forthright about what the direct and indirect costs were. Incompetent politicians who run on political talking points, not policies, and voters too dumb to pay attention.
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BIL's easy-to-predict response "FAKE NEWS FROM LIBS!"
I'm really in shock. A company with an upstanding reputation like Foxconn would ever consider doing such a thing.
I really wish we could replay for Paul Ryan one of the last CNN town hall meetings he did. I would love to watch the look on his face as he watches himself brag about how the tax breaks for this company brought so many good paying jobs to Wisconsin and how much it stimulated the Wisconsin economy and how welfare for the wealthy is always the way to lift people out of poverty. Man, would I pay money to see that.
My guess is Paul Ryan is too dense to be able to make the connection of how stupid he sounded in light of now.
Nevada has a Tesla Battery Factory and a Faraday electric car factory (and even a new NFL stadium) ... all partially funded with taxpayer money.
I would happily trade all three for a research centric project ... although perhaps not that exact one with those exact people.***
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... although after googling Faraday, I see that that project has broken down with Faraday returning whatever benefits they had already received.
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*** The description of Foxconn indicates that this is a Taiwanese company and that they intended to build flat-screen television sets, and I suppose monitors and other sorts of electronic displays.
That is an intensely competitive industry and the profit margins are thin, I am not sure a favorable tax rate would offset the advantage of lower labor costs in Asia. Yikes!! It is probably good that it is being stopped this early in the game.
Fewer people doing research and developing ideas for future products probably IS a better use of the saved taxes. ...
Bait and switch is not cool however.
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Summary and conclusion:
Maybe a rickety old commuter train with stops at lots of little towns with sweatshops close to the stations would indeed have been a better option. All this was ever going to be was a big sweatshop with state sponsorship. A lot of locally financed little ones amounts to the same thing.
I would happily trade all three for a research centric project ... although perhaps not that exact one with those exact people.***
...........................................................................................................
... although after googling Faraday, I see that that project has broken down with Faraday returning whatever benefits they had already received.
...................................................................
*** The description of Foxconn indicates that this is a Taiwanese company and that they intended to build flat-screen television sets, and I suppose monitors and other sorts of electronic displays.
That is an intensely competitive industry and the profit margins are thin, I am not sure a favorable tax rate would offset the advantage of lower labor costs in Asia. Yikes!! It is probably good that it is being stopped this early in the game.
Fewer people doing research and developing ideas for future products probably IS a better use of the saved taxes. ...
Bait and switch is not cool however.
..............................................................................
Summary and conclusion:
Maybe a rickety old commuter train with stops at lots of little towns with sweatshops close to the stations would indeed have been a better option. All this was ever going to be was a big sweatshop with state sponsorship. A lot of locally financed little ones amounts to the same thing.
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I'm not the BIL, but what's wrong with simply admitting it hasn't worked as planned and it is a screw up? That happens on both sides, but I guess the way we're supposed to go about life is to chalk up as many political "wins" as we can get, right?
Over the past several years...a couple of decades anyway, the Iowa GOP have treated employers and especially OUTSIDE industries as damn near diety.
I am the first to appreciate the importance of successful businesses to the success of Iowa but never to the point of giving away the store to lure them to the state.
Businesses have an obligation to their state of residence too. Giving away the store, as cited by Waukee with Apple, makes no damn sense at all. Whoring yourself to attract a "name" business is superficial and damaging. Hopefully Iowa Republicans will take fred Hubbel's idea of reviewing what they have given away and reassessing the bad ones.....but they won't. Because they are Republicans and industries...even the bad ones, are damn near holy in their eyes.
Something that's going to cost WI taxpayers many billions of dollars over the next 40 years, for practically NO benefit or ROI can hardly be referred to as just "a screw up".
It's a massive boondoggle. If they did not negotiate with any 'out' clauses, then it's practically fraud (particularly if individuals got any kickbacks for it).
For sure. If that's the case, investigate and send them off to prison. That is probably the same thing the BIL will say.
Now, forgive me for not knowing the full story here and not having any desire to trust you at face value... because I'm going to guess there's more to it.
I know I’ve mentioned this before, but tax breaks don’t equate to lost tax revenue. If they negotiated nothing then they get nothing unless there is another company competing for the same place. Also, often times the tax breaks are tied to performance. I know not of this situation though.
I lived in Madison for several years and know full well the incompetency of the Walker administration.
This was a massive fu*k up and all the dems said it would go down like this. Walker and his merry band of misfits wouldn't listen.
And, lol, you really think the Wisconsin legislature which is GOP controlled is going to investigate and send them off to prison?
First statement is your opinion (aside from what I can only assume is a fact about where you live and for how long)
Second statement borders on opinion and might be hyperbole.
Third statement is a question I suppose, and I have no idea. I would think if the people of Wisconsin were subjected to this "massive fu*k up and all the dems said it would go down like this" they could elect D's to go and investigate it at some stage. I also would tend to think there are ways to circumvent the party in power to call for investigations.
You know, Trump is being investigated and I'm pretty sure that started while he was President AND he had a Republican majority in the House and Senate. So maybe it isn't as difficult as you make it sound, but I don't know.
The problem is many R's didn't see any issue with this at first. However, that is part of the reason Walker lost the election last fall. The Rs that still supported Walker saw it as "jobs, jobs, jobs" and probably didn't care about the cost.
As you mentioned, the initial numbers of 5,200 jobs would still mean 750k per job which is ridiculous. Many critics of this deal in that state said that wasn't worth it. Further, other critics questioned Foxconn which has a known history of shady dealings. It's not like it was a trustworthy company.
Now, Foxconn is clearly saying that “In terms of TV, we have no place in the U.S.,” he said in an interview. “We can’t compete.” They didn't know that 18 months ago? Heck, many critics pointed that out to the Walker administration. How can they possibly compete in that market with those labor prices.
All the "cons" of this deal were clearly pointed out yet the cons in the Governor's office and the cons with Foxconn forged ahead. Now, here we are. Exactly where many of the critics said.
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This is a huge part of the reason Tony Evers is now governor.
Of course the Republicans still in the legislature there are trying to stop him from digging into the shenanigans at every turn and basically disempowering him. BAU for the Wisconsin GOP mafia.
‘Wisconsin Has Never Seen Anything Like This’
Republicans carried out their plan to strip authority from the incoming Democratic governor, and what was remarkable was how little disagreement there was about why they did it.
RUSSELL BERMANDEC 5, 2018
JOHN HART / WISCONSIN STATE JOURNAL VIA AP
In the early-morning hours Wednesday, Republicans in control of the Wisconsin legislature carried out their plan to neuter the Democrats whom the state’s voters elected to lead them scarcely a month ago.
In party-line votes, Republicans passed legislation to limit the ability of the incoming governor, Tony Evers, and attorney general, Josh Kaul, to deliver on their campaign promises to protect the Affordable Care Act, expand infrastructure spending, and overhaul the state’s economic-development agency. They dramatically scaled back early voting in Wisconsin, and across a range of areas, they shifted power from the state’s executive branch—to be administered by Democrats come January—back to the GOP-controlled legislature.
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The Republicans did all this in an extraordinary lame-duck session over the protests of demonstrators who swarmed the state capitol in Madison and over the complaints of Democrats astonished that a defeated political party would act so brazenly in apparent defiance of the verdict that voters had just rendered.
Yet what was equally remarkable about the legislation that squeaked through the legislature in Wisconsin was how little disagreement there was about what, exactly, it represented. Democrats declared it a naked power grab—a charge the Republicans barely disputed.
They said plainly that they were worried that Evers would have too much power to undo conservative policies enacted over the past eight years under Governor Scott Walker, the Republican whose bid for a third term was rejected. So, the Republicans explained, they needed to take back some of that power before Evers had a chance to use it. “We do not believe that any one individual should have the opportunity to come in and with the stroke of a pen eliminate laws that have been passed by our legislature and found constitutional by our courts,” said Robin Vos, the speaker of the state assembly, in a briefing with reporters before an all-night session of the legislature.
“We did have an election,” Vos continued. “Whether everyone here likes it, I respect the fact that Tony Evers is the governor and is going to be starting on January 7. But he’s not the governor today, and that’s why we are going to make sure that the powers of each branch are as equal as they can be.”
“The system,” Vos said, “right now is heavily weighted toward the executive.”
When Walker was governor, the imbalance of power was not a problem, Republicans readily admitted. “We trusted Scott Walker,” state Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald told a conservative radio host Monday. “We don’t trust Tony Evers right now in a lot of areas.”
Vos said Republicans, including Walker, had been discussing some of their proposals as far back as the spring. But the idea of stripping so much authority from the governor and the attorney general was not litigated during the election, Democratic State Senator Jon Erpenbach said. “There was no talk of this happening until now,” he told me in an interview.
What was litigated during the campaign were many of the pledges that Evers and Kaul made that, because of the legislature’s moves on Wednesday, they may now be powerless to carry out. Both had said they would withdraw Wisconsin from a lawsuit challenging the Affordable Care Act’s prohibition on insurer discrimination against people with preexisting conditions. If Walker signs the new law, they would have to get the legislature’s approval first. Evers also vowed to disband the Wisconsin Economic Development Corporation, the entity that signed and oversees the state’s much-criticized contract with FoxConn, the Taiwanese electronics manufacturer. Under a bill passed Wednesday, the legislature would assume temporary power over the WEDC, and Evers would lose the ability to appoint its leader.
The GOP’s response to the Democratic victories in Wisconsin appears to be modeled on what Republicans in North Carolina did to weaken the Democrat Roy Cooper after he won the governorship in 2016. And in Michigan, Republican legislators are considering similar legislation to shift power away from the incoming Democratic governor, Gretchen Whitmer, who will succeed Republican Rick Snyder next month.
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Facing opposition in their own ranks, Wisconsin Republicans did scale back or drop some of the proposals included in a 141-page plan they released late Friday. The package approved on Wednesday cleared the state Senate by just a single vote, 17–16, after one Republican sided with Democrats against the measure. One scuttled idea would have changed the date of the presidential primary in 2020 to help the reelection bid of a conservative state-supreme-court justice. While the final bill reduced early voting to two weeks from as many as six, the GOP scrapped changes that would have limited the number of hours and days it could be available within that shorter window. And the legislature did not weaken the attorney general’s office as much as Republicans initially proposed.
But the final legislation approved on Wednesday remained a far-reaching bill that will undercut Evers in significant ways. “Wisconsin has never seen anything like this,” Evers said in a statement after the vote. “Power-hungry politicians rushed through sweeping changes to our laws to expand their own power and override the will of the people of Wisconsin who asked for change on November 6.”
The bills now go to Walker, who has indicated he will sign them. “Hopefully, the governor finds it in his heart to veto some of this stuff, if not all of it,” Erpenbach said. “He’s got a legacy he needs to worry about, and I tend to believe this is what he’ll be known for.”
“That,” he added, “would be such a stain on his eight years in office.”
Assuming Walker signs the bills, the next fight might occur in the courts, as Democrats have said they will consider lawsuits challenging the constitutionality of the legislature’s actions. A previous attempt to limit early voting was thrown out, and advocacy groups in Wisconsin were already discussing litigation on Wednesday.
Vos said he welcomed the possible challenges, expressing confidence in the legitimacy of the legislature’s actions. He and Fitzgerald, the Senate majority leader, were also betting that their GOP members—many of whom hail from gerrymandered legislative districts—can defend their bills when they next face the voters themselves. “I don’t think anyone’s losing their seat over this,” lamented Erpenbach. “But when they get home, they’ll start to notice people looking away when they walk in the room.”
Indeed, Republicans may have rushed through their legislation after a debate that occurred in the dark of night, but they were surprisingly forthcoming about why they were doing it. Without the new limits on Evers’s power, Vos said, according to Wisconsin Public Radio, “we are going to have a very liberal governor who is going to enact policies that are in direct contrast to what many of us believe in.”
That liberal governor, and those liberal policies, may be what Wisconsin voters wanted when they elected Evers last month. But after Republicans in the legislature insisted on having their say on Wednesday, that agenda may not be what the voters actually get.
But the final legislation approved on Wednesday remained a far-reaching bill that will undercut Evers in significant ways. “Wisconsin has never seen anything like this,” Evers said in a statement after the vote. “Power-hungry politicians rushed through sweeping changes to our laws to expand their own power and override the will of the people of Wisconsin who asked for change on November 6.”
The bills now go to Walker, who has indicated he will sign them. “Hopefully, the governor finds it in his heart to veto some of this stuff, if not all of it,” Erpenbach said. “He’s got a legacy he needs to worry about, and I tend to believe this is what he’ll be known for.”
“That,” he added, “would be such a stain on his eight years in office.”
Assuming Walker signs the bills, the next fight might occur in the courts, as Democrats have said they will consider lawsuits challenging the constitutionality of the legislature’s actions. A previous attempt to limit early voting was thrown out, and advocacy groups in Wisconsin were already discussing litigation on Wednesday.
Vos said he welcomed the possible challenges, expressing confidence in the legitimacy of the legislature’s actions. He and Fitzgerald, the Senate majority leader, were also betting that their GOP members—many of whom hail from gerrymandered legislative districts—can defend their bills when they next face the voters themselves. “I don’t think anyone’s losing their seat over this,” lamented Erpenbach. “But when they get home, they’ll start to notice people looking away when they walk in the room.”
Indeed, Republicans may have rushed through their legislation after a debate that occurred in the dark of night, but they were surprisingly forthcoming about why they were doing it. Without the new limits on Evers’s power, Vos said, according to Wisconsin Public Radio, “we are going to have a very liberal governor who is going to enact policies that are in direct contrast to what many of us believe in.”
That liberal governor, and those liberal policies, may be what Wisconsin voters wanted when they elected Evers last month. But after Republicans in the legislature insisted on having their say on Wednesday, that agenda may not be what the voters actually get.
I've linked several key news stories about it. If you want to remain ignorant on the topic and simply pretend it didn't happen, that's on you.
Understanding how people were able to do this, and end up with such a bad deal for the state, is how you prevent your own representatives from pulling this kind of stuff on you and your neighbors.
MADISON, Wis. (AP) -- Local Wisconsin officials working with Foxconn on its investment in the state say the company has reiterated support for the project, including investing up to $10 billion and creating 13,000 jobs.
The local government and economic development leaders issued a statement Wednesday. Their comments come after Foxconn Technology Group said it was looking at moving away from building a manufacturing facility in Wisconsin with blue collar jobs to one focused on research and development.
The local leaders say Foxconn has already invested more than $200 million in the state. They say Foxconn committed to building an advanced manufacturing operation in Wisconsin and is proceeding with construction on related facilities this year.
The officials say they "fully expect" Foxconn to meet its obligations to Wisconsin, Racine County and village of Mount Pleasant.
https://www.nbc15.com/content/news/Foxconn-backer-Expect-company-to-stay-committed-505087632.html
They would have been better off just giving 1000 random people $4 million each and calling it a day. Republicans are bad at math.
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Alternative headline:
Local moron ec-dev pros issue bald-faced lie in futile
hope of saving own asses
Notice there were no quotes from anyone at FoxConn in the AP story? Hmmm, I wonder why.
Take it up with the reporter I guess. I didn't write that. It was about 11 minutes old when I found it. I thought an NBC affiliate would be considered something credible with this crowd, but I guess not. "Sources said" works when you like it though, or is that different?
I have no doubt that the reporter was told that. I don't think for a second Foxconn is going to come anywhere close to that job mark. They are already behind and now they apparently aren't even building the factory.
Let's just be honest about what this deal has been up to this point and likely going forward. A massive screw up. Hopefully, for the Wisconsin taxpayer that changes and I will gladly eat crow. I wouldn't bet on it though.
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Oh I'm not criticizing you or AP at all. It's a story you have to do.
I just know - having been a "local economic development official" at one time - that they are shitting their pants as this deal crumbles around them and likely trying to save their jobs, which I predict will not work.
That literally sounded like a desperate PR piece. Similar to when a college AD gives the dreaded "vote of confidence" on a struggling coach.
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That WAS a desperate PR piece!
Have had to write a few myself over the years, lol. I can smell desperation a mile away.
Kind of sounds like a Branstad deal.
Oh, I think it's working exactly as planned.
Cheeser republicans are pretty much like republicans everywhere. Dems got a thumb in the eye and unions got crushed so it was all worth it. The $4.1 billion is going to a nice multinational corp so all is well.
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