How far beyond has Iowa fallen?

[MizzuHawk]

Well maybe that's the problem right there.

Our own "wrestling fans" can't f***ing tell that most all of Penn State's guys are stronger than our guys.

That explains a lot actually.......

Agree. Stronger, taller and longer reach. They all fit the Cael mold.

 

[MVPFAN]

If Sanderson is such a great coach why did he not have the same success at ISU? It took him going to a place where the money was, to be able to get the best recruits. In a time where athletes are going to lesser programs to get starting spots, multiple highly ranked kids waiting for their turn… It really isn’t all that difficult. We’re in the NIL era.

He was doing quite well at ISU and was just starting to bring in impact recruits like David Taylor for instance.

 

[Chuck C]

At least we’re getting this thread out of the way before nationals this year. That should save us some time in a few weeks.

Meh, apathy has already set in. Probably won’t even be a whimper in a few weeks.

 

[AFHawk86]

Least number of Iowa fans I’ve ever seen at a B1G tourney. It was really noticeable. Unfortunately way too many Penn State supporters making lots of noise…I understand why the Hawks were hated (and still are based on the cheers when they do poorly). Hopefully we can get back to earning the hate, but in the meantime it sure would be nice to see the Nittany Lions hated a bit more.

 

[Trapper85]

What a dumb post. Messenbrink isn't huge because he only wrestles at 165 lbs? You realize "huge" is in relation to their opponents. Messenbrink is huge compared to Caliendo.

You sitting two rows behind his parents means **** all. I saw the match in high definition on TV. Both yesterday and in the dual. Messenbrink is bigger and stronger than Caliendo.

He's longer, he has a stronger core/hips. He absolutely horsed Caliendo and not just because he out classes him technically.

Beau looks stronger than Real. Haines looks stronger and bigger than Franek.

Kerk is one of the strongest wrestlers in D1 this year. Why in the **** are you comparing Kerk to D1 football players? We're comparing him to his wrestling opponents in his weight class. He's bigger and stronger than the majority of his opponents.

I'd disagree with respect to MM and MC- I thought MC looked as big/ jacked as MM. But otherwise I'd agree. I think most wrestlers at PSU/OSU/Neb/MI/MN/etc *seem* to have better weight training (or muscle genetics?). That said, it may be one of my least worries (we are still in the mix except with PSU). I still contend what sets PSU apart is the style/mind wiring of the athletes Karl goes after and gets, and then is good at honing. They just have 'it', and 'it' can't simply be taught effectively/quickly to a wrestler who is already 19 years old. The mind is nimble, but not that nimble, especially when you have plenty other to focus on at that age in college. Real is a good example (and yes, I know he may be dealing with some stuff this year). He is athletic and darn good, but it seems if someone shuts down his couple go-to moves, his mind is neutralized. PSU minds calmy but quickly calculate, adapt, and continue their honey badger moving and attacking. Instinctual, fluid, no clunky stepwise thinking. JMO.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Least number of Iowa fans I’ve ever seen at a B1G tourney. It was really noticeable. Unfortunately way too many Penn State supporters making lots of noise…I understand why the Hawks were hated (and still are based on the cheers when they do poorly). Hopefully we can get back to earning the hate, but in the meantime it sure would be nice to see the Nittany Lions hated a bit more.

Yeah that's what I don't get. There isn't nearly the vitriol with Penn State and they dominate everything right now and it seems like everyone but Iowa is just grateful to be in the presence of their ass-beatings.............

 

[MVPFAN]

I'd disagree with respect to MM and MC- I thought MC looked as big/ jacked as MM. But otherwise I'd agree. I think most wrestlers at PSU/OSU/Neb/MI/MN/etc *seem* to have better weight training (or muscle genetics?). That said, it may be one of my least worries (we are still in the mix except with PSU). I still contend what sets PSU apart is the style/mind wiring of the athletes Karl goes after and gets, and then is good at honing. They just have 'it', and 'it' can't simply be taught effectively/quickly to a wrestler who is already 19 years old. The mind is nimble, but not that nimble, especially when you have plenty other to focus on at that age in college. Real is a good example (and yes, I know he may be dealing with some stuff this year). He is athletic and darn good, but it seems if someone shuts down his couple go-to moves, his mind is neutralized. PSU minds calmy but quickly calculate, adapt, and continue their honey badger moving and attacking. Instinctual, fluid, no clunky stepwise thinking. JMO.

I don't even know if we have a highly organized and individualized strength training program these days. I'm guessing whatever program they have it's sub standard to some of these other programs. At one point when Brands was there they didn't care much about weight lifting. I know we had to use the strength guy from the football team in the past and the position was not even filled for a short time. That kinda sums up the planning in that area.

 

[Gobblin]

Word in Happy Valley is that Haines and Messinbrink will switch weights next year. Haines is huge and has a tough cut, scariest part is Messinbrink is wrestling right now pretty damn close walking weight and reportedly would have a much more manageable cut than Haines. Imagine that dude at ‘57!

 

[TailgateTom]

We didn’t have this thread two years ago.

I understand the frustration. There are things I’d like to see change. Recruiting for one, we have to be more active and aggressive with the top guys. When you are being negatively recruited against you have to beat them to the punch. We should always have young light weight studs knocking down our door.

I’d also like to see a Nolf like coach on the staff. Someone that’s young enough to roll with our middleweights and has a variety of attacks.

The night when we had Eierman and Kem both lose the natty to guys they had just beaten, the exact same way Iowa always loses? I disagree with that sentiment.

 

[TailgateTom]

He was doing quite well at ISU and was just starting to bring in impact recruits like David Taylor for instance.

How did he do with the “Young Guns” class that was supposed cement ISU among the greatest of all time?

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Word in Happy Valley is that Haines and Messinbrink will switch weights next year. Haines is huge and has a tough cut, scariest part is Messinbrink is wrestling right now pretty damn close walking weight and reportedly would have a much more manageable cut than Haines. Imagine that dude at ‘57!

I'd rather imagine them losing....

 

[MVPFAN]

Winning team titles looks to be off the agenda for a while. Maybe they can focus on getting a guy or two not named Spencer to win some nattys.

 

[crazyazn]

I don't even know if we have a highly organized and individualized strength training program these days. I'm guessing whatever program they have it's sub standard to some of these other programs. At one point when Brands was there they didn't care much about weight lifting. I know we had to use the strength guy from the football team in the past and the position was not even filled for a short time. That kinda sums up the planning in that area.

I don’t remember what years he was on staff but I feel like when Iowa had the former Wisconsin wrestler covering S&C Iowa wrestlers looked better not just strength wise but agility and how they moved. This is one thing that I do think is missing, not necessarily the strength but the conditioning/agility of our athletes. Wrestling has evolved to more than hard hand fighting and scrambling, recovery, and being an overall athlete are just as important as technique these days. Recruiting helps but the recruits and transfers we get don’t seem to change or evolve either.

 

[MadTown Hawk]

Beating Penn State has become moot. We now need to figure out how to beat Michigan.

 

[SansAgain]

Man, this shit is tiring. I exhausted myself years ago about Tom and his wrestling is life or death mentality. The Pennsylvania boys and the bull bailed Tom out and that’s not going to happen again. Iowa gets an A on defense and a F on offense. Middle of the road and looking at fighting for 3rd or 4th in B1G if things don’t change. I’m sure Iowa’s opponents love game planning for an Iowa wrestler with no FOOTWORK and very little deeking or level changes. No ability to attack from distance, no creativity and can’t scramble for shit. They just plod forward like robots and try to get setups on hand fighting and collar ties. Everything about Iowa wrestling under Tom is archaic from the mentality to technique.



Ben, Cody or Casey and Iowa would be headed in the right direction.

 

[bourbon n blues]

Yeah that's what I don't get. There isn't nearly the vitriol with Penn State and they dominate everything right now and it seems like everyone but Iowa is just grateful to be in the presence of their ass-beatings.............

This is almost home turf for psu, many grads live in the area and it’s easy for psu people in the east to travel here. Iowa city is like 800 or so miles from my house , PSU 120, UM 180 ish.

Toss in the DC area and surrounding region in Virginia and Maryland around Annapolis and you have a lot of grads in the region .

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

This is almost home turf for psu, many grads live in the area and it’s easy for psu people in the east to travel here. Iowa city is like 800 or so miles from my house , PSU 120, UM 180 ish.

Toss in the DC area and surrounding region in Virginia and Maryland around Annapolis and you have a lot of grads in the region .

OK let's see how many boos Penn State gets at Nationals compared to Iowa.

Thanks for playing.

 

[wahlberg]

Agree. Stronger, taller and longer reach. They all fit the Cael mold.

Bartlett?

 

[bourbon n blues]

OK let's see how many boos Penn State gets at Nationals compared to Iowa.

Thanks for playing.

Boos don’t bother me, my problem is trying to find some place for all of my national title t shirts. Wifey says I have to get an addition put on the house or throw a few out. Would you like a few? Do you take an XL?

Real world problems .

 

[AndEEss]

Agreed. It’s not been talked about enough. They’re bigger than us at almost every weight. Caliendo looks tiny compared to Mesenbrink. Franek looks tiny compared to Haines. And technique discrepancies aside, we’re getting horsed around physically.

You guys know that you can easily fact check this, right?

Mesenbrink certified at less than 165, as did Caliendo.

Now, Mesenbrink is taller than Caliendo. But he's significantly skinner. If you look at the many times that they were in close proximity (notably, when Mesenbrink was on top...ha) Caliendo is a LOT thicker in the arms and chest.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Boos don’t bother me, my problem is trying to find some place for all of my national title t shirts. Wifey says I have to get an addition put on the house or throw a few out. Would you like a few? Do you take an XL?

Real world problems .

I already got 23. You need to catch up.

Not sure you'll last long enough to see it happen, though. 🤔

 

[Aardvark86]

Iowa guys wrestle with great effort, but it's obvious Iowa doesn't have the talent to compete for titles right now.

The years of being behind PSU has created such a chasm that I don't see how Iowa is going to close the gap anytime soon. I am not sure Iowa can challenge PSU in the next 10 years. The recruiting is so lopsided.

If PSU pulls away, like it seems they're going to for the unforeseeable future, does wrestling become boring with such a lack of parody and competition?

A lack of parody?

 

[Fan In Black]

Yeah that's what I don't get. There isn't nearly the vitriol with Penn State and they dominate everything right now and it seems like everyone but Iowa is just grateful to be in the presence of their ass-beatings.............

thats because the Iowa identity was brute force, breaking your will, tough guys, etc. There was a lot of bravado with the winning. Easy to hate.

There wasn't a lot of vitriol for Okie St when they won 4 in a row either. Technicians.

The identity at PSU is fun. and winning. Not a lot of characters to hate like Brands, Mocco, Metcalf. Ramos, or Gilman.

I find it kind of boring but thats just me. I sure they GAF winning everything. haha.

 

[bourbon n blues]

I already got 23. You need to catch up.

Not sure you'll last long enough to see it happen, though. 🤔

If those are vintage you best have them framed, there’s big money in nostalgia !

Here you go:

We Buy Old Shirts | Sell Your Shirts

WyCo Vintage is buying vintage shirts, concert tees, band tshirts and concert/tour memorabilia. Sell us your old shirts and get paid today. Fast turnaround time, multiple payout options available. Send us a message and to get started!

www.wycovintage.com

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Boos don’t bother me, my problem is trying to find some place for all of my national title t shirts. Wifey says I have to get an addition put on the house or throw a few out. Would you like a few? Do you take an XL?

Real world problems .

But really though, you need to explain to wrestling fans that Penn State's dominance is even worse for the sport of wrestling, which you have a passion for, than Iowa's alleged reign of terror that causes people to still boo them, and not Penn State, to this very day.

Tell me that the sport of college wrestling won't die if Penn State keeps winning and I'll give you the user name of a boomer Penn State fan that's full of sh**.

Real World problems and what not.....

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

If those are vintage you best have them framed, there’s big money in nostalgia !

Here you go:

We Buy Old Shirts | Sell Your Shirts

WyCo Vintage is buying vintage shirts, concert tees, band tshirts and concert/tour memorabilia. Sell us your old shirts and get paid today. Fast turnaround time, multiple payout options available. Send us a message and to get started!

www.wycovintage.com

I could use the money. I'll take $50,000 if you got it.

 

[bourbon n blues]

thats because the Iowa identity was brute force, breaking your will, tough guys, etc. There was a lot of bravado with the winning. Easy to hate.

There wasn't a lot of vitriol for Okie St when they won 4 in a row either. Technicians.

The identity at PSU is fun. and winning. Not a lot of characters to hate like Brands, Mocco, Metcalf. Ramos, or Gilman.

I find it kind of boring but thats just me. I sure they GAF winning everything. haha.

That’s it, I was talking to Bartlett’s dad and he talked about Cael and how he operates and how low key he is. It’s a very self motivated program according to him.

As an old guy it took me awhile to learn you don’t need fire, you need to live doing certain things. If you can flip that switch it’s hard to beat you.

It doesn’t mean you’re not competitive , it means you do this because you love it.

 

[bourbon n blues]

But really though, you need to explain to wrestling fans that Penn State's dominance is even worse for the sport of wrestling, which you have a passion for, than Iowa's alleged reign of terror that causes people to still boo them, and not Penn State, to this very day.

Tell me that the sport of college wrestling won't die if Penn State keeps winning and I'll give you the user name of a boomer Penn State fan that's full of sh**.

Real World problems and what not.....

It didn’t die because Iowa was winning, right? And it will live on without Iowa winning.

 

[Vic Vaselino]

But really though, you need to explain to wrestling fans that Penn State's dominance is even worse for the sport of wrestling, which you have a passion for, than Iowa's alleged reign of terror that causes people to still boo them, and not Penn State, to this very day.

Tell me that the sport of college wrestling won't die if Penn State keeps winning and I'll give you the user name of a boomer Penn State fan that's full of sh**.

Real World problems and what not.....

People love watching winners.

 

[bourbon n blues]

I could use the money. I'll take $50,000 if you got it.

Not my style but I’m betting some big time fans would actually pay top $$ for some and not being a smart ass, I went to buy my wife a Britny Fox t shirt and figured they’d have a reproduction.

I only found real tour t shirts for $250 and up.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

The identity at PSU is fun. and winning. Not a lot of characters to hate

Lol okay. Not really, but I get where you're going with it, and why.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

People love watching winners.

Except Iowa.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

That’s it, I was talking to Bartlett’s dad and he talked about Cael and how he operates and how low key he is. It’s a very self motivated program according to him.

As an old guy it took me awhile to learn you don’t need fire, you need to live doing certain things. If you can flip that switch it’s hard to beat you.

It doesn’t mean you’re not competitive , it means you do this because you love it.

And also steroids.

Whoa whoa whoa hey now.......hey.....that's uncalled for. Whoa.........whoa.........whoa..........



But also true.

But hey fans also denied for decades that players were being paid to go play CFB or CBB and all of the sudden, especially with NIL, people/former athletes are reaching that age in their lives where they aren't afraid to say whatever they want and low and behold.......they've been paying players for decades/ aka......"cheating".

And no that's not just a "poorly kept secret" because even worse than steroid accusations, if you wanted to seriously offend a fanbase just 10-15 years ago, tell them their program cheated and bought their recruits.

And I don't give a f*** if the story came out tomorrow that PSU has been using steroids for years, and you yourself didn't have a problem with it.

I just want the why.

That's all that matters to me.









That and you guys going away so that Iowa can go back to winning national championships in wrestling.

 

[SJP80]

Maybe not bigger but definitely stronger…. And I’m not crying foul or cheating. If you haven’t noticed how it seems every PSU kid almost immediately upon joining the program have absolute stone hips and just crazy positional strength you’re not paying attention. Did you see Mikey’s beautiful deep shot today only to have Messinbrink just crush him? How about Levi Haines just manhandling Franeks wrists with one hand? RBY had insane hips! Nickal, Varner, Zain, Bartlett, Van Ness, on and on and on. It’s truly remarkable.

Another spoiler alert though…. They manhandle everyone, not just Iowa.

Bottom line is there ain’t a staff on earth that could best Cael and Co. but once every cycle now then on a down year. Sucks to come to terms with but I have eyeballs and am not delusional. That staff is in Iowa City. I have nothing against bringing in some new young blood. I’d welcome it. I mentioned to a member of our staff just the other day how much I’d love to get the Hidlays to IC. I’ve been an advocate for Nolf since he graduated. And we’ve tried. If it comes to money, which it almost always does now, we don’t stand a chance. They can and will beat any offer if they choose. My hat is off to them and I respect the hustle, as does Tom Brands. He knows what he’s up against and if you think he doesn’t want it a gazillion times more than any of us do and is just “accepting” 2nd place you’re out of your mind.

And I was thinking about what Drake asked me why I defend and like TnT so much…. It’s because they’re incredible human beings first and foremost. Second is because they are phenomenal wrestling coaches that are incredibly loyal to the athletes on my favorite wrestling team. If some of had even a clue of a fraction of the lengths they’ll go for their athletes and the attention to detail they pay it would blow your mind.

alas…..judge the results, not the efforts!

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

It didn’t die because Iowa was winning, right? And it will live on without Iowa winning.

No, it evolved because Iowa was winning.

It is literally dying under Penn State's watch.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Not my style but I’m betting some big time fans would actually pay top $$ for some and not being a smart ass, I went to buy my wife a Britny Fox t shirt and figured they’d have a reproduction.

I only found real tour t shirts for $250 and up.

 

[Fan In Black]

Lol okay. Not really, but I get where you're going with it, and why.

I'm not going anywhere with it. That is the key word in the culture he has built. Their guys repeat it ad nauseum. I could get banned for even spelling it on here. lol.

It doesn't mean it's even real, it's the perception and what he sells. Hell even Gable took exception to their notion that wrestling is fun a few years ago.

Not all of Gables guys were brawlers either but that was and still is the mystique. Whatever works. Bad guys or Good guys.

I don't care really. Just my opinion on why Iowa was hated while they are not.

 

[IAcubbies]

It's going to take a Gable like coup hire. We need to steal one or more of the stars out if the NLWC to catch up to what their doing and some major $$. Nolf is still my top pick, they guy is so good technically and a great personality. If he can medal this Olympic cycle, I'd say it's reasonable to try.

Bingo! If Iowa wants to catch up they will need to follow the same path Penn State did. Hire a big name/Olympian and hopefully start to steal some of the top recruits from PSU. Bring in a Nolf, Taylor, Burroughs, Snyder, etc.
Status quo will likely lead to the gap widening even more. If Iowa doesn't do it, another team will. What happens when Neb hires Burroughs and Iowa continues to do nothing because we like our guys?
I like TnT as much as the next guy. I get fired up every time I watch the TnT documentary, but I also see the pendulum swinging more than ever.
I love Hawkeye wrestling but I'm concerned the Iowa wrestling tradition fades away with time because of Iowas coaching loyalty to a fault.

 

[Ironturd]

The reason nobody is booing Penn State wrestlers is that the best of them will join the NLWC after college and represent the United States (and now Mexico) in the Olympics. Booing a Penn State wrestler is un American and frowned upon everywhere in the country except Iowa.

 

[Chuck C]

This was the first time in probably 15 years I didn’t sit in front of a computer and have every mat pulled up watching the BT tournament all weekend. Enjoyed watching the WBB team instead.