I came unlgued Saturday over that let down..

[Hwk-I-St8]

I Understand where you're coming from and I actually agree the players have improved but that's where the rubber meets the highway it's pretty much all on the players. Our interior rush defense and safety play is as bad as I've ever seen it be the first half of the season and that's not a coaching problem yes I agree they finally might've got their heads on straight and got them coached up but that's not that's scene, that's not adjustments that's just a sucking....

And do you know what Hayden's greatest gift was he was a master salesman & PR guy I always get a chuckle when people start talking about Hayden Fry. Quite frankly everybody was ready for him to go at the end as well people just have short memories. There wasn't anything special and tricky about Hayden's offense, when we had the players to run it it was masterful and when we didn't well guess what we didn't... does anyone remember the third and 17 draw we seemingly ran every time we were in third and long.

I remember sitting in the stands and hearing people groan, point being we remember Hayden fondly and we despise Kirk...pretty similar men, Hayden just had a better gift with snowing people.

Two things - having the players execute is an obvious need to be successful. Running plays that emphasize your strengths, mitigate weaknesses and keep the opponent off balance gives you margin for error. It's that margin for error that we frequently lack. Sure, if a perfectly designed play is executed perfectly, you can beat the other guy even if he knows what's coming. There's no perfect play and, in college football with weak links and controlled practice time, executing perfectly isn't a sure thing, so why not use everything at your disposal to maximize odds of success?

Second, Hayden's last years sucked. I was in the "he's earned the right to leave on his terms" crowd, but it got brutal. A big part of that was the fact that he couldn't recruit. Everyone out there assumed retirement was imminent and those recruiting against him emphasized that. It wasn't that he suddenly became a bad coach, he just lacked the horses.

 

[EZ2BJZ]

Hayden's offenses with Bill Snyder at OC were some of the best offenses ever at Iowa. Also, it's always on the coaches. These are the players we recruit, develop and choose to put on the field. You don't see Urban Meyer or Nick Saban saying "sorry, my players just suck". The trick is to find a way to get each player playing at 100% and that is enough to pass almost everybody. NDSU is a great example of that.

Well said. But I will say some times players just don't perform well. They're human. Even at Alabama. But overall I think your point is spot on.

 

[bigfridaynite]

The 2nd unit D for the Hawks last Saturday look just like a Texas Tech,Baylor or even Oregon the thing is the the 2nd unit will get. Much better and them other teams won't.Heck K St D looks awful the starters

 

[cmhawks99]

Well EZ,

As you've likely heard me say before, the debate is what I enjoy more than talking about football. Iowa losing hurts my heart that's why I've had to adjust the way I look at things now. But that wouldn't be any different if I were a a Green Bay fan, Bears fan, Wisconsin fan, etc... With that said you're an awesome dude and I really enjoy chatting with you and I have zero issue with anything you said. I just try to be very pragmatic however in the way I look at things.

I'll give you a couple case in points; I promise you as great a coach as Nick Saban is his fans are baffled at why they struggle so badly with Mississippi.

And if you were as engrossed with other teams as you are with Iowa you would see the same flaws and faults and frustrations in other coaches...Maybe you wouldn't see the "same" faults but you would see similar reoccurring faults or issues, but honestly I'm not always certain they are faults as much as they are causalities or collateral damages or results.

As far as the false equivalences, I'm not really in agreement with you there. For one, my analogies are not in anyway "opposing" arguments, but more to the Truth, everything in life is relevant and with an open mind things are usually comparable. Not maybe a one-off extrapolation but certainly comparable.

Here's a real world example I'm pretty good at my job, I'm well-paid and I've done it for a long time. I'm not bragging, I'm not being pompous or egotistical and I can and do continually improve. But Im super intense, I'm a professional and I take it very seriously and I hate to fail, with that said I have my faults and some of these faults I've carried with me for years. I diligently try to fix and change some of them but quite frankly some I don't really consider faults. I consider some of them undesired or even just results or affects of greater strengths. Some of them, although maybe people don't like them (Co-workers, underlings, etc..) customers or my bosses respond to them so I'm reluctant to "fix" them for fear the outcome would be worse or the strength would disappear. I have no doubt coaches think just like me.

So when we complain (not saying your are, your very fair and articulate ) the change could easily cause new and worse problems. The world and football is not a vacuum. You don't "fix" without exposing new probelms or weaknesses.

A couple points of interest for everyone, not necessarily you...

KF is 7-8 vs Wiscy, yet the margin of victory is 20-19 in our favor and if I looked correctly when I looked a few days back we have beat them by double figures 5 times and them, us twice.

Yes I agree Hayden was awesome, but I've watched all those old films on BTN, his Offense isn't really all that different than ours and honestly where do you think KF learned from?

I'm super disgusted about this drop off, but honestly CJ has been off, , more untimely drops and penalties, the safety play has been very poor as well, etc...

I can't stress enough the fans and coaching complaints. They take on a life of their own and often times what seems true, takes on a mythological factor and forever more thats what a coach is known for. Its not only unfair, its dishonest.

Couple coaching anecdotes...Dusty Baker is a great coach, he was when he left San Fran, but when he came to Chicago (I live out here) to hear Cubs fans talk he was terrible, now he is great again, but I'll bet if you find a Nationals board they are regurgitating all kinds of old tired thoughts about his faults and poor managing.

Joe Maddon is also a great coach, but if you catch the right person they say he sucks and should the Cubs choke they'll be out in full focre...

Iowa's play calling in my mind has been pretty damn awesome this year and they were anything but boring vs MOM, ISU, NW and PU. Execution will do that..

CJ is not having a great year and it is criminal that an Offensive line like ours, hurt or not couldn't gain more yards vs a FCS team on the ground. With that said Offense didn't lose that game nor the NW game for the most part. Our defense, our long time strength did and it wasn't nickel or Lbers on WR's it was us getting gouged, not outside, right up the middle...Point being if anyone was really paying attention, these aren't the old tried and true Iowa "faults" these were new for us and really disappointing..

But for the most part I blame the players.

 

[cmhawks99]

Hayden's offenses with Bill Snyder at OC were some of the best offenses ever at Iowa. Also, it's always on the coaches. These are the players we recruit, develop and choose to put on the field. You don't see Urban Meyer or Nick Saban saying "sorry, my players just suck". The trick is to find a way to get each player playing at 100%, to develop synergies, and that is enough to pass almost everybody. NDSU is a great example of that.

Well for what its worth I don't hear KF saying that either. You are talking about the two best coaches in college football in probably the last 20 or 30 years, do you have any other examples?

 

[cmhawks99]

Hayden's offenses with Bill Snyder at OC were some of the best offenses ever at Iowa. Also, it's always on the coaches. These are the players we recruit, develop and choose to put on the field. You don't see Urban Meyer or Nick Saban saying "sorry, my players just suck". The trick is to find a way to get each player playing at 100%, to develop synergies, and that is enough to pass almost everybody. NDSU is a great example of that.

By the way I hate to disparage a legend but I do have to do this to remind people from time to time...

HF's winning percentage at Iowa in a much, much weaker Big 10 was....613

KF's is .597, based on that hell maybe they both suck....just sayin'

FWIW from 1978 to 1998 the Big 10 was Michigan, tOSU, Iowa and MSU above .500.

Illinois was right at .500 and it got ugly from there.

Since 1999, that has grown to 7 not counting NW who has caused lots of problems not counting vs Iowa, so please quit reinventing reality.

The BIG 10 absolutely sucked in the 80's..

 

[hwk23]

Well for what its worth I don't hear KF saying that either. You are talking about the two best coaches in college football in probably the last 20 or 30 years, do you have any other examples?

I don't think KF blames the players either. I don't think ultra successful people think like that. Can you imagine Bill Gates saying Microsoft sucks because our employees suck? Guess what that would be a reflection on him and his brand. Why do you think NDSU can take a bunch of 2 star or less athletes and beat FBS teams on a regular basis? This, I think, is a very good question but I think it's the culture and the system they have developed. Their schemes also make a lot of sense and fit their players. Everything in football leads directly back to the coaches.

 

[cmhawks99]

I don't think KF blames the players either. I don't think ultra successful people think like that. Can you imagine Bill Gates saying Microsoft sucks because our employees suck? Guess what that would be a reflection on him and his brand. Why do you think NDSU can take a bunch of 2 star or less athletes and beat FBS teams on a regular basis? This, I think, is a very good question but I think it's the culture and the system they have developed. Their schemes also make a lot of sense and fit their players. Everything in football leads directly back to the coaches.

I'm fine with that, its very much 100% true, just like all of my sales teams failures lead to me and yours do to you. But everyone fails, and a lot, as did NDSU last week. Should they have lost to SD, definitely not, but they did....

I am trying to get the focus on just that actually, a team wide failure but to tell you the Truth, if the "critic" really believed this as a "life mantra" they'd be less critical because they would be acutely aware of their OWN failures, like I am...but see they aren't they are just aware of their favorite sports teams failures or the other people in their life "letting them down" and there in lies my rub....

See the football team isn't personal to me, the complaining without personal accountability is...

 

[EZ2BJZ]

Well EZ,

As you've likely heard me say before, the debate is what I enjoy more than talking about football. Iowa losing hurts my heart that's why I've had to adjust the way I look at things now. But that wouldn't be any different if I were a a Green Bay fan, Bears fan, Wisconsin fan, etc... With that said you're an awesome dude and I really enjoy chatting with you and I have zero issue with anything you said. I just try to be very pragmatic however in the way I look at things.

I'll give you a couple case in points; I promise you as great a coach as Nick Saban is his fans are baffled at why they struggle so badly with Mississippi.

And if you were as engrossed with other teams as you are with Iowa you would see the same flaws and faults and frustrations in other coaches...Maybe you wouldn't see the "same" faults but you would see similar reoccurring faults or issues, but honestly I'm not always certain they are faults as much as they are causalities or collateral damages or results.

As far as the false equivalences, I'm not really in agreement with you there. For one, my analogies are not in anyway "opposing" arguments, but more to the Truth, everything in life is relevant and with an open mind things are usually comparable. Not maybe a one-off extrapolation but certainly comparable.

Here's a real world example I'm pretty good at my job, I'm well-paid and I've done it for a long time. I'm not bragging, I'm not being pompous or egotistical and I can and do continually improve. But Im super intense, I'm a professional and I take it very seriously and I hate to fail, with that said I have my faults and some of these faults I've carried with me for years. I diligently try to fix and change some of them but quite frankly some I don't really consider faults. I consider some of them undesired or even just results or affects of greater strengths. Some of them, although maybe people don't like them (Co-workers, underlings, etc..) customers or my bosses respond to them so I'm reluctant to "fix" them for fear the outcome would be worse or the strength would disappear. I have no doubt coaches think just like me.

So when we complain (not saying your are, your very fair and articulate ) the change could easily cause new and worse problems. The world and football is not a vacuum. You don't "fix" without exposing new probelms or weaknesses.

A couple points of interest for everyone, not necessarily you...

KF is 7-8 vs Wiscy, yet the margin of victory is 20-19 in our favor and if I looked correctly when I looked a few days back we have beat them by double figures 5 times and them, us twice.

Yes I agree Hayden was awesome, but I've watched all those old films on BTN, his Offense isn't really all that different than ours and honestly where do you think KF learned from?

I'm super disgusted about this drop off, but honestly CJ has been off, , more untimely drops and penalties, the safety play has been very poor as well, etc...

I can't stress enough the fans and coaching complaints. They take on a life of their own and often times what seems true, takes on a mythological factor and forever more thats what a coach is known for. Its not only unfair, its dishonest.

Couple coaching anecdotes...Dusty Baker is a great coach, he was when he left San Fran, but when he came to Chicago (I live out here) to hear Cubs fans talk he was terrible, now he is great again, but I'll bet if you find a Nationals board they are regurgitating all kinds of old tired thoughts about his faults and poor managing.

Joe Maddon is also a great coach, but if you catch the right person they say he sucks and should the Cubs choke they'll be out in full focre...

Iowa's play calling in my mind has been pretty damn awesome this year and they were anything but boring vs MOM, ISU, NW and PU. Execution will do that..

CJ is not having a great year and it is criminal that an Offensive line like ours, hurt or not couldn't gain more yards vs a FCS team on the ground. With that said Offense didn't lose that game nor the NW game for the most part. Our defense, our long time strength did and it wasn't nickel or Lbers on WR's it was us getting gouged, not outside, right up the middle...Point being if anyone was really paying attention, these aren't the old tried and true Iowa "faults" these were new for us and really disappointing..

But for the most part I blame the players.

Dude, all I can say is I love your passion! I imagine you are very good at whatever you do. You make good points and articulate them well.

Oh, btw, I believe it was last year after Bama lost again to Ole Miss that there was a thread on here showing the numerous tweets by Bama fans saying it was time for Nick Saban to go. Lol. So yeah, fan overreaction is universal.

I actually do watch a lot of college football. Bama happens to be my second favorite team, and that has been the case since the days of Gene Stallings. By the time it's all said and done, Nick Saban might be more revered and considered a greater coaching legend than the Bear. We'll see.

 

[cmhawks99]

Dude, all I can say is I love your passion! I imagine you are very good at whatever you do. You make good points and articulate them well.

Oh, btw, I believe it was last year after Bama lost again to Ole Miss that there was a thread on here showing the numerous tweets by Bama fans saying it was time for Nick Saban to go. Lol. So yeah, fan overreaction is universal.

I actually do watch a lot of college football. Bama happens to be my second favorite team, and that has been the case since the days of Gene Stallings. By the time it's all said and done, Nick Saban might be more revered and considered a greater coaching legend than the Bear. We'll see.

I don't like Alabama, Saban nor the SEC, but I am diligent about being honest with myself. After all Its impossible to be honest with anyone unless you can start there. But back on point he is an AWESOME coach and I don't believe he has a peer. Same goes with Billy B and New England, don't care for him and every time my wife sees him on TV she asks why they let that guy on the sidelines dressed like that...LOL. I always tell her he is the coach honey and she says no I mean the guy dressed like a bum....

Those 2 coaches in my mind are already the best of the best and may be the greatest ever.

Saban is an example of that intangible aspect of "winning" that is hard to quantify and that I struggle to explain to people when they are complaining about KF' and others. His offense isn't "new age" and his defense is fast and efficient, i/e: not bogged down with a bunch of hybrids and the need for different packages and he is a straight forward guy.

Yes he has great talent, yes he has great coaches but unless you have ever lead people, especially talented, high strung, eccentric people you have no clue how difficult it is too keep that train on the tracks and he does it every year. THAT is his genius and where KF is falling. He can't find any semblance of consistency either with his kids or his staff. These kids have talent but they are failing him. But alas he isn't alone because thats sports....

Carolina anyone and honestly how about Green Bay, you talk about inconsistent and average...

Good talk though EZ...

 

[spbc7]

I'm still trying to figure out what unlgued means

 

[Chewback]

There wasn't anything special and tricky about Hayden's offense, when we had the players to run it it was masterful and when we didn't well guess what we didn't.

Reminds me of the 1985 Bears when everyone was marveling about the genius of the 46 defense. A Trib reporter was interviewing a retired Bear defensive player and he said, "Heck, we had the 46 defense in 1978. We just didn't have anybody who could run it."