I don't think anybody ....
- Thread starter GunnerHawk
- Start date
This is where you display your ignorance.
If opposing teams respected our passing threat(the QB) I firmly believe that last year's team would have been able to run the ball better.
If you can't acknowledge that CJ's passing threat and ability would have helped last year than you are simply being ignorant or obtuse or maybe both.
Back in the closet.
why did it take 4 years to change his approach?
it interestingly coincided with th Iowa fan base giving him a vote of no confidence by eschewing the bowl game and the back up QB's father publicly voicing his son's intention to possibly quit the program.
self evaluation...sure! haha!
I guess I don't see the need to rubber stamp Kirk, or necessarily the prior year or years - good or bad - here on November 8, 2015. Ask me in mid-January 2016.
What exactly are we trying to accomplish here with this argument? What does it prove?
It stands to reason that everybody here knows Kirk is a pretty good football coach, who is also not so good as to be free of reasonable criticism about the last few years prior.
It is literally the LAST thing on my mind about this team today.
Minnesota, folks. Minnesota. Then Purdue. Then Nebraska. Then whatever follows those.
My gawd folks, sit back and enjoy the show. Right now, barring a total collapse, it stands to reason that Iowa could be playing in a real good Jan 1 bowl up to and including the Rose Bowl, and playing in the playoff has real possibilities.
This is supposed to be...you know...fun. Have some. There's plenty to go around.
What exactly are we trying to accomplish here with this argument? What does it prove?
It stands to reason that everybody here knows Kirk is a pretty good football coach, who is also not so good as to be free of reasonable criticism about the last few years prior.
It is literally the LAST thing on my mind about this team today.
Minnesota, folks. Minnesota. Then Purdue. Then Nebraska. Then whatever follows those.
My gawd folks, sit back and enjoy the show. Right now, barring a total collapse, it stands to reason that Iowa could be playing in a real good Jan 1 bowl up to and including the Rose Bowl, and playing in the playoff has real possibilities.
This is supposed to be...you know...fun. Have some. There's plenty to go around.
I think Kirk was very stubborn and condescending to the fans and media for a long period of time and it has caused me to dislike him. The starting point of my disgust was the '09 OSU game when he played for OT when he had time and decent field position to try and win it. I can't think of another coach in the country that would have done that. I still haven't forgiven him for that one.
I know he seems to have changed but I'm still not 100% convinced he won't get a brain fart down the road and cost us a game. I really think Beathard is the reason this team is special this season not some new Kirk. I'm still open to have him win me back though. Making CJ the starter was the moment I thought maybe Kirk has finally got it. I'm rooting for him. Go Hawks!!
It isn't necessarily about the coach, but the football program as far as I am concerned. What would Kinnick look like had the dumpster fire continued into this season?
It's great that Kirk has been able to put together a season like this. The Iowa program needs to parlay this season into getting some recruits to keep this train rolling. For how great this season is and can be, it will be a little less sweet if they pull a 2010
As far as Kirk, i can wish the man well and hope he succeeds...but he shouldn't be above criticism either if we experience another stretch like the last few years
It's great that Kirk has been able to put together a season like this. The Iowa program needs to parlay this season into getting some recruits to keep this train rolling. For how great this season is and can be, it will be a little less sweet if they pull a 2010
As far as Kirk, i can wish the man well and hope he succeeds...but he shouldn't be above criticism either if we experience another stretch like the last few years
To believe fan and booster discontent didn't have anything to do with cj being named the starter and a few changes being made, well, let's just say there's not much help for you. KFs azz was feeling plenty plenty of heat.
Do you really think telling me to go back in the closet is going to work, or was that just your poor attempt at being clever? I'm just saying because I've had people say that to me before, and usually it was because they thought they were being funny while mocking my user name. They were simply wasting their time.
Btw, I like how defensive that post of yours came off. Means I clearly rubbed ya on that one, and you can't really deny it when you end up taking shots at my user name as a result of a post I made..........so deal with it.
Now then...since you clearly care about this way more than I do, I'm going to leave these actual stats here for you to use (or not use) in whatever way you want for your arguments.
vs. Pittsburgh- (55th in rush D, 160.8 ypg...4.5 ypc/gm)
1st half w/Rudock: 13 car, 53 yds, 4.1 ypc
2nd half w/Beathard: 22 car, 80 yds, 2 TDs, 3.6 ypc........(also included the now-abandoned reverse/end-around play to Powell for 14 yds)
vs. Purdue- (91st in rush D, 192.1 ypg...4.6 ypc/gm)
51 car, 175 yds, 2 TDs, 3.4 ypc
I wouldn't underestimate the role that introspection played. Without a doubt, the end of last season left a terrible taste in EVERYBODY's mouth ... not just the fans. If you don't think that the staff wanted to identify and fix things, you're fooling yourself.
What fans rarely seem to realize is that coaches are educators. Although the fantasy football types don't seem to get it ... when you're dealing with college football, the players are STUDENTS OF THE GAME ... and they are all capable of learning and improving. The amount and rates of the improvement vary by the individual. It is a truism to state that one of the biggest obstacle that anybody has to overcome is themselves. Sometimes players cannot get out of their own way. Another statement that is equally true is that "you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink." Any educator who is worth a thing know that the above observations are 100% true.
Herein lies one of the key difficulties that educators face - if the students (players) are underachieving ... is it the standard conundrum of students being young and irresponsible and/or undercutting their own development? In this case, changing your teaching approach probably won't do much good. OR is it a case where you can adapt your approach in order to better facilitate and enhance student learning? You might think that opting to adapt and change is the obvious "right answer" ... but it's not. Change, for the sake of change, often benefits nobody. Furthermore, change for the sake of change, often comes with an inherent cost ... related to the learning curve of correctly implementing the changes (and, again, the changes still might not garner any benefits).
Quite apart from what fans think ... it wasn't heat from fans that brought about the unprecedented winter depth chart. I've written this MANY times, but it apparently requires repeating. You can say whatever you want about Ferentz ... but one thing that is absolutely true is that he is FAIR. Ferentz has always been very fair about how guys earn playing time and earn their starting spots. While many board-idiots (and there are A LOT of you) think that Ferentz mishandled the quarterback competition last year ... the truth of the matter is that NEITHER Rudock OR Beathard seized the starting position for their own. Thus, we suffered as a result. We suffered from having a lack of leadership on the field. We also suffered from having a somewhat divided locker-room. Thus, this comes back to WHY the winter depth chart was announced. Rudock had his chance to earn it ... he didn't improve enough or show enough leadership to seize hold of the position. He would be a senior ... and it was obvious that he wasn't going to improve appreciably more. In contrast, while Beathard was immature ... he obviously had a higher upside. The coaches absolutely NEEDED to go into the off-season with there being a unified locker-room. The call they made achieved that objective.
And, making that decision, was a FAIR one. It also smacked of "Old Kirk" as much as "New Kirk" ... because that has always been his calling card.
These kind of comments are very interesting. When the players don't execute it is the coaches to blame. When they actually execute the way they are taught it is all the players doing and nothing whatever to do with the coach.
When things aren't going well ... then AT LEAST we know that players AREN'T executing as they are supposed to. It is also possible that the coaches have had their flubs too. However, most good coaches try to deflect the negativity from the players to themselves ... because they're more confident in their abilities. Whereas, in contrast, the players are still the novices who are learning their trade.
When things are going well ... then AT LEAST we know that the players ARE executing as they're supposed to. That is a reflection of BOTH the hard work put in by the players AND the coaches. When things are going well, the good coaches heap most of the praise on the players.
Unfortunately, as you rightly point out, people tend to exaggerate the balance between the contributions of the players and the coaches. The truth of the matter is that things are rarely as great or as bad as things seem.
Who puts the players on the field? If players are not performing they should be replaced, if they have no player who is able to perform at a position they need to recruit better. How is it a players fault. I don't blame Vandenberg or Rudock....it's the coaches that kept playing them? That is the position that has killed us! Just my opinion and it's not worth much!
They put themselves on the field as a result of the hard work and preparation that they put in. If someone surpasses them - then that is both on them AND a feather in the cap of the player that passed them. The coaches TEACH them the fundamental skills and explain to them how they should approach the game (film-study, out-of-practice drills, etc) - then it is up to the players to grade-out and show how consistently they can execute. The coaches simply put out the players that demonstrate that they're the most qualified to hold down the job.
If guys grade-out really closely ... then it can boil down to being a judgement call of the coaches. However, ultimately, it's up to the players to make it an easy or hard decision.
If you don't realize this fact - then you simply don't understand high school or college football. Instead, you're stuck in fantasy football land where "talent" rules and you can plug-and-play guys in any which way. Such a perspective is devoid of any contact with reality. Sadly, some players and fans believe that it's just simply a matter of playing the best "athletes" ... because clearly the better athlete is the better player.
Thank God for all the complainers. Without them our Oline would not be tearing holes in the defenses we play and our RB's wouldn't be gaining all these yards. I will make sure to say "you're welcome" to Desmond King for all the INT's if I ever see him. The narcissism is high in some of you
KF apologists.... Funny how the same guys live on this board (are you collecting disabilty?) Isn't it neat how the best players, when played, can do a better job!?! I don't think a majority of the things that have made this team do well are directly credited to KF I listened to BF on talk radio and from what he said, it gave me a good indication that he is the main factor. The old man was willing to change... so i do credit him for listening to the others. Should have listened long ago. Leaders are fine, but if you never listen then you never learn.
Thanks for enlightening me on what football players have to do play at this level. For ME, wins and loses, good or bad, it's always the coaches problem.....period! They recruit, train, development the players for their systems. The coaches pick the starters, call the plays and develope game plans. It's not always about being the best athlete, but you won't win many games without any! That applies to fantasy football as well.
I clearly didn't enlighten you, because your response was utterly dim.Thanks for enlightening me on what football players have to do play at this level. For ME, wins and loses, good or bad, it's always the coaches problem.....period! They recruit, train, development the players for their systems. The coaches pick the starters, call the plays and develope game plans. It's not always about being the best athlete, but you won't win many games without any! That applies to fantasy football as well.
So, as a physics/engineering faculty ... I unilaterally put students into tech jobs? I foster a cooperative and creative environment where students feel comfortable to explore, make mistakes, and help each other. However, in spite that environment, you cannot "make" students excel. You cannot dispense confidence as if it were like candy. Students can be guided ... but ultimately they are captain of their own ship.
If you have a keen strategic mind ... you'd quickly realize that the Iowa coaching staff had been crafting solid game-plans for years. However, the game-plans mean little if the players aren't focussed. The best schemes mean little if the players don't trust each other. The x's and o's don't mean a darn thing if the players aren't invested and share a unified vision with the coaching staff.
A huge portion of responsibility is held by the players - and they don't always hold up their end. Of course, that's not to say that the coaching staff is blameless either. If staff members seem detached OR if the coaches aren't themselves perceived as invested - that can deleteriously impact the brew. Also, if the members of the staff aren't all on the same page ... that can also negatively impact things.
I think that Ferentz has been pretty explicit this season about how the staff may not have been entirely on the same page through the past several years ... but he seems pretty confident that that transient period is over and that they've reached a new and positive equilibrium.
Isn't it neat how we've come to learn this year that Matt VandeBerg is our best WR? From last year, you clearly would have been under the impression that Ferentz, Davis, and Kennedy were on LSD for favoring VandeBerg over Willies.
You are clearly a legend in your own mind and probably enjoy listening to yourself speak....I would rather be dim! You can write about the 5,000 different variable surrounding a college football team and who does or doesn't do what, at the end of the day KF is responsible for the outcome of the program as well as the results on the field. I think he is a good man, and great ambassador for the university. He is an average football coach who catches lightening in a bottle every now and then.... I'm not in love with KF like maybe you are and to say the players are solely responsible is ridiculous. That is dim!!!!
Bigfann1966, posted: You are clearly a legend in your own mind and probably enjoy listening to yourself speak....I would rather be dim! (The world needs plenty of ditch diggers.) You can write about the 5,000 different variable surrounding a college football team and who does or doesn't do what, at the end of the day KF is responsible for the outcome of the program as well as the results on the field. (But I thought the fans influenced some change....so how is KF ultimately responsible if the fans had a hand in it? Is this one of those deals where you invented the rocket but are letting someone else take credit for it? Niiiice.) I think he is a good man (yeah), and great ambassador for the university (great ambassador, yes). He is an average football coach who catches lightening in a bottle every now and then..................eek I'm not in love with KF (because that'd be gross....because he's married, not because you're a guy and he's a-.....well you get it.) like maybe you are (is that a question?...) and to say the players are solely responsible is ridiculous. (except he's not saying the players are solely responsible. They're responsible for taking what they have learned from their teachers and applying it to their work. If you're taught the same way as everyone else in a class, and you get a D on a test while most others get an A or a B, is it "ultimately" the teacher's fault you did poorly? Is it "ultimately" the teacher's fault for allowing you into the class in the first place, since you aren't performing as well as the other students?............) That is dim!!!! (The little lights are not twinkling.)
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I'm glad that you told everyone where you stand on Kirk Ferentz as the coach at Iowa though. Let's me know, with certainty (yes, with certainty), that you do not enjoy this season as much as some others are. And that makes me happy. But if you want, I'll make an assumption about you. I think you are one of those people who constantly have had to bite their tongues this year when Iowa won a game you not only didn't think they would win, but couldn't entirely complain about, either.
So once again, I get to use this:
eek I'm not in love with KF (because that'd be gross....because he's married, not because you're a guy and he's a-.....well you get it.) like maybe you are (is that a question?...) and to say the players are solely responsible is ridiculous. (except he's not saying the players are solely responsible. They're responsible for taking what they have learned from their teachers and applying it to their work. If you're taught the same way as everyone else in a class, and you get a D on a test while most others get an A or a B, is it "ultimately" the teacher's fault you did poorly? Is it "ultimately" the teacher's fault for allowing you into the class in the first place, since you aren't performing as well as the other students?............) That is dim!!!! (The little lights are not twinkling.)******************************************************************************************
I'm glad that you told everyone where you stand on Kirk Ferentz as the coach at Iowa though. Let's me know, with certainty (yes, with certainty), that you do not enjoy this season as much as some others are. And that makes me happy. But if you want, I'll make an assumption about you. I think you are one of those people who constantly have had to bite their tongues this year when Iowa won a game you not only didn't think they would win, but couldn't entirely complain about, either.
So once again, I get to use this:
an average football coach who has gotten Iowa into the top ten 7 times in the last 15 years. Yup, that's pretty average success for a football coach.
Bigfann1966, posted: You are clearly a legend in your own mind and probably enjoy listening to yourself speak....I would rather be dim! (The world needs plenty of ditch diggers.) You can write about the 5,000 different variable surrounding a college football team and who does or doesn't do what, at the end of the day KF is responsible for the outcome of the program as well as the results on the field. (But I thought the fans influenced some change....so how is KF ultimately responsible if the fans had a hand in it? Is this one of those deals where you invented the rocket but are letting someone else take credit for it? Niiiice.) I think he is a good man (yeah), and great ambassador for the university (great ambassador, yes). He is an average football coach who catches lightening in a bottle every now and then..................
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I'm glad that you told everyone where you stand on Kirk Ferentz as the coach at Iowa though. Let's me know, with certainty (yes, with certainty), that you do not enjoy this season as much as some others are. And that makes me happy. But if you want, I'll make an assumption about you. I think you are one of those people who constantly have had to bite their tongues this year when Iowa won a game you not only didn't think they would win, but couldn't entirely complain about, either.
So once again, I get to use this:
Love that they are having a great season...win or lose I have the right to think what I want???? I have been extremely critical about the last 5 years and nothing would have made me happier than seeing KF fired! With that being said, if he is changed and refocused on turning things around...I'm all in!
You don't pick your class mates...poor analogy! If I loved to hear myself talk I wouldn't need 5 paragraphs to say something that you could sum up in one? KF is ALWAYS responsible for the outcome, sorry you and your buddy don't like hearing that!
OK...
He has had 4 top ten finishes 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2009.
You are correct. He has had them in the top ten 3 more times--05,10,15
Well then Sherlock, tell us, why was Todd Lickliter fired?
If you don't think the fans were not the impetus of the "changes" you are a delusional twit.
You would have us believe that Gary Barta has held a press conference after every season that Iowa has gone 7-6 and said that it was "unacceptable."
Wait, he had actually never done that before. Weird, it must have been like someones or something was pressuring him.
Can't put my finger on what that might be but i'm sure i'll think of it here. just hold on.
As a game-day coach, I would agree that Ferentz definitely has his issues. He strikes me more as the ponderous type ... so he definitely can make blunders in the heat of the moment.
As a administrator who organizes the program - Ferentz tends to do a meticulous job. Everybody has a role and that role is well communicated. Furthermore, the nature of the organization also impacts the structure of how the "football curriculum" is delivered. In this area, Ferentz is WELL AHEAD of most other coaches. There's a reason why the BTN crew always raves about how much Iowa gets done during their practices.
As a leader of the program, he ultimately determines the focus of the program. His emphasis on fundamentals and development is the primary reason why Iowa produces so much NFL-quality talent. Without cultivating that talent, the program wouldn't be as successful.
As a coach/teacher, he still is pretty hands-on when it comes to blocking on the O. Given the quality of the blocking of Iowa's TEs and OL ... that continues to be a reflection of him as a teacher. There's a reason why multi-year starters at LT are 1st round draft picks. Ferentz remains one of the most respected OL-teachers in the nation (arguably on any level).
Many fans, perhaps including you, look at Iowa and see a program that tends to underachieve. Or, if they don't see Iowa as underachieving, they instead look at Iowa as simply being the Mendoza line for the Big 10. Of course, Hawk fans want more of their program. We crave national attention and respect for our beloved program. Thus, many fans get irate when our program simply seems ordinary.
However, what such fans are missing is that even though football is a bottom-line business - the margins for error are razor thin. As Nebraska nicely illustrates this year - the difference between a 6-loss team and a 1- or 2-loss team is seemingly miniscule. As many folks have pointed out recently - Iowa has lost A TON of games over the past 5 years that have been decided by just a score or less. There are a multitude of reasons that contribute to those losses - however, one of the most obvious ones is manifest when you simply observe the difference in culture of the 2015 squad compared to teams over just the last 5 years. The players are closer to one another. The team is more focused. The coaches are both closer together and focused. The coaches are placing more trust in the players ... and the players are more deserving of that trust.
I'd argue that Ferentz doesn't occasionally capture lightning in a bottle ... but instead, the program occasionally enjoys "perfect storms" ... where we have talent on the roster, that talent is unified and fully invested, AND the coaches are unified and fully invested. I think that it is occasionally difficult for Ferentz to sell the players on his blue-collar football philosophy. Furthermore, I think that all the changes on the coaching staff took a while to work themselves out - and that also impacted the play on the field. Heck, Greg Davis introduced a whole new language to the offense only back in 2012 ... and it took a while for even the coaches to all get fluent. Just think of the impact that would have on the players who are the students? On D, Phil has had to experience a bit of a learning curve as well ... but things seemed to have reached a nice equilibrium in the defensive room as well.
Changes not outcomes. All the credit goes to KF, the coaches, the trainers, and most importantly the players.
However, the genesis of the "changes" which helped enable this turnaround and this season were the fans telling the admin that the same old crap like last year was not good enough. they got the message.
playing favorites/the wrong QB - not OK
playing a punt fair catcher instead of a returner - not OK
kneeling the ball at half with time outs - dumb
running on 3rd and 12 with a full back - not smart
mailing in press conferences and treating the media and fans like we are fools - not OK
Brain Splatter, directly probably not, indirectly, absolutely. If you don't believe that your as dumb as you claim everyone else to be.
