Great win tonight. Strong 5-2. Anybody else confused as to why we haven't seen much of anything from the freshmen including the 2 Chicago boys? I thought they were going to contribute from the onset but obviously not playing much at all. Were their talents overblown or is Fran just taking it easy with their development?
I guess I was mislead?
- Thread starter pkaul666
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Both. Fran will play the guys he trusts. Also, people on message boards are too easily wowed by recruiting highlight videos.
The recruits are fine, but those expecting major contributions from 6 freshmen were setting themselves up for disappointment.
Just gotta hope they buy in and stick with the development aspect.
The recruits are fine, but those expecting major contributions from 6 freshmen were setting themselves up for disappointment.
Just gotta hope they buy in and stick with the development aspect.
As I was warning this summer, some of the "recruiting experts" here were overhyping these guys big time. I'm not saying these kids won't be good players, some may develop into very good players, but people seem to forget there's a big difference in talent from high school to college. They weren't bringing in top 25 or 50 ranked players. Duke, Ky, bring in studs and they contribute right away, but when you are bringing in 2 and 3 star talent it's going to take time to develop these players.
Right now Iowa's bench is pretty brutal. Uhl and Ellingson might contribute some offensively, at least in some games, but I'm not sure you're going to see much from others. This might change later in the year as they get more experience or maybe next season.
Great post. I would hope some people, who were really hyping these players this summer, will take your message to heart for the future. When I said the same thing last summer, a few posters went into meltdown mode. Iowa's recruits aren't Ky and Duke, they aren't top 25 or 50 talent. They aren't going to step onto the court from day one and be studs. It takes time to develop and get accustomed to playing at the collegiate level, especially when you are talking about lesser ranked kids.
I think wagner has been great in the minutes he's gotten.
Four returning starters plus Clemmons and Uhl. Again, it's a matter of minutes. And frankly Ellingson, Baer and Wagner have all shown they can play, they just aren't going to be getting starter type minutes. As to the other true freshmen. Fleming has some system issues to work out, Williams is learning the point and Hutton and Moss are redshirting.
But if anyone wants to discount their future contributions I would remind that this time last year people were writing off Ellingson.
Patience.
But if anyone wants to discount their future contributions I would remind that this time last year people were writing off Ellingson.
Patience.
Has it been announced by Fran or Brandon that Hutton is red shirting ? I assumed that he was but hadn't heard it announced like Moss' s redshirt.
Consistency is the problem. Every one of the freshman would have some positives if they were playing 20 mpg, but all of them would make dumb mistakes as well. At this point we don't need them to play significant minutes, or any at all for some. Might as well let them learn from the seniors now, and they will be running the show next year.
Let's hope Jones is not hurt seriously, because he was giving us a consistent deep threat and rebounding in the 10 min or so that he was playing.
He's played so little it's hard for me to say. He's been ok. He also provides them little offensively, which is why I listed Uhl and Ellingson as a couple guys who could give them pts off the bench. Right now, he's kind of a hacker. A lot of fouls for the minutes he's played. Still, he's been a solid player off the bench, given Iowa some defense and rebounding and that's all you need him to do right now.
I think a big reason people were expecting so much from the incoming freshmen is because we're still used to having to rely on freshmen when there's a big incoming class. We did not need much from the 2013 and 2014 classes right away because we returned so much experience. It hasn't been since the 2012 class (Woodbury, Gesell, Clemmons) that we have needed freshmen to start and be substantial contributors right away. We lost a lot of talent from last year's team, but now when we lack experienced depth Fran can lean on his starters more heavily because they're all very good Big 10 players.
I believe the class of freshmen we have now is just as good as the 2010, 2011, and 2012 classes, but we don't need them to be substantial contributors right away. If needed, I believe we could have Wagner produce at the same/similar level as Basabe as a freshmen and Fleming/Moss/Hutton could probably produce at the level of a Marble/McCabe/Oglesby as freshmen.
I'm sure we could still win close to half our games if we needed to rely on these freshmen (because they are talented), but we wouldn't be close to being a tournament team, just as the 2010/2011 team struggled with McCabe, Marble, and Basabe all playing significant minutes as freshmen.
The big thing I got wrong in my prediction was that I thought Hutton might play the most of any freshmen. As explained above, we don't need these freshmen to be anything more than role players this year, and I thought Hutton fit that mold the best of all the incoming freshmen because he was touted by his AAU coach as the best defensive high school player in the country (which may have been a stretch, but not that big of a stretch). Since I figured we'd rely on our returning players for the bulk of the scoring, I thought Hutton would provide the most needed asset from any of the freshmen - defense.
Bump to this point. I may have clearly missed this but I didn't hear an announcement that he was going to redshirt.
I don't think you will see Wagner's contributions as much in the box scores. He has been setting very physical screens (when he actually gets set). He also was VERY active defensively last night working to deny the post entry without fouling.
I have been pleasantly surprised by his acceptance of his role so far and think he really may develop into a Branden Dawson clone by his senior year. We'll have to see if he can hit a 15 footer consistently, but he has a great motor.
I have been pleasantly surprised by his acceptance of his role so far and think he really may develop into a Branden Dawson clone by his senior year. We'll have to see if he can hit a 15 footer consistently, but he has a great motor.
With Jones out for now, I think you will. Our only post players right now are Woody, Uthoff, Uhl, Wagner, and Baer.
Uhl looks like he doesn't play hard. It could be a style thing. Maybe it's because he doesn't bend his knees on defense or because I was expecting more from him off the boards. Some of the weight he put on may not be helpful. I thought he brought energy last year and he doesn't give me thst feel this year.
If Jones injury is serious Dom's play will be a key to the season.
If Jones injury is serious Dom's play will be a key to the season.
I've said it before but he reminds me of what we saw from Jarryd Cole. Undersized, but doing the dirty work down low, rebound and stick backs and develop into more as his career goes on.
Went last night and was really impressed with Wagner and Baer. Uhl played well as everyone saw but the new boys did very well. Was sort of wishing Uhl/Wagner was in instead of Woody at the end but it panned out.
In the little we have seen him in the post you can already tell he has better post moves than anyone on the team not named uthoff. He's simply adjusting to the speed of the game. By the time he graduates I think he will be one of the all time greats. I know thats a bold statement based on his limited minutes but I truly believe it.
Correct. Don't write the freshmen off as not capable of contributing yet, just as it was wrong to think they would come in and play major minutes. We've already seen a couple of teams (Marquette and Florida State) who both brought in very talented freshmen (better than anyone in Iowa's freshmen class) and even those guys aren't proving to be able to be good enough to beat good teams so far. If you're not getting the top 50-ish players, expecting them to play really well immediately isn't realistic. There are exceptions like Aaron White, but that is the exception.
Iowa will need Cook to play well immediately next year, and all the other guys in this year's class will have more opportunity to play big minutes next year. Hopefully they will be ready.
Could be wrong but pretty sure I saw Hutton in street clothes last night, so maybe the redshirt is official? Could be wrong though. Could have been Jones.
Did you even bother watching the game last night? Dom had his best game of the year.
Uhl and Wagner are a combined 7 for 14 from the free throw line. I would much rather have Woodbury with his 82% on FT's on the floor at the end.
Didn't realize that and Woody certainly deserves huge kudos for his progress over the years with his free throw shooting; that is very impressive. The defense, ball handling, and "effort" Dom and Wagner were showing was what was sticking in my head.
Regarding Hutton's redshirt. He is redshirting unless injuries cause a need to insert him in the rotation. In other words, he is redshirting. And he is fine with it, Fran has said as much. No worries there.
And, I am wondering who mislead the OP in the first place? I know in my constant babble this past summer I repeatedly said that this years team would be about the upperclassmen. And I don't recall anybody predicting a massive wave of new talent replacing our veterans.
And, I am wondering who mislead the OP in the first place? I know in my constant babble this past summer I repeatedly said that this years team would be about the upperclassmen. And I don't recall anybody predicting a massive wave of new talent replacing our veterans.
Good point about Ellingson Dan....the general consensus seemed to be that he'd be likely to transfer because he'd be buried on the bench.
A lot of people forget these guys were'nt highly recruited. It was likely they would take 1, 2 may be even three years to develope. You can see that with some past recruits. Clemmons really didnt get a consistent stride until his JR year. Jok is still trying to find his consistent stride. Uhl might get it figured out this year.
Good post. The exciting thing about the true newbies is the potential they bring. But it is undeveloped potential in some cases. For those worried because they haven't shown "star ability" yet, I'd remind that Hoiberg offered Moss for a reason. Bo Ryan offered Hutton for a reason. I could go on, but the thing is most kids right out of high school don't contribute the second they land on a college campus.
Examples. Shep Garner, look at what he's doing this year as a sophomore compared to his freshman year. P.J. Thompson, another vast improvement from freshman to sophomore.
Frankly, take guys that are getting time because the time is available, like Ed Morrow, and he isn't doing anything that Wagner isn't doing at Iowa...just seeing the court more.
Yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to seeing more of Wagner. He could be the real deal. At the same time, I have no problem with bringing him along slowly. He is still a freshman. He got 8 minutes last night and looked pretty good. I'm sure as the season goes on we'll see more of him.
Agree with pretty much everything you wrote. This was one of the points I made when telling people to tone down the hype for the freshman this year. And still several posters (one in particular) went batsh*t crazy at the notion. I made the point Iowa had 4 returning starters, and 1 guy who had started games. People were making silly claims about several freshman supplanting a starter like Jok or Clemmons. I tried to point out that Fran is going to go with experience over a freshman (unless the freshman is a stud).
These guys aren't ready to log in major minutes, if your goal is to make the NCAA tournament. It takes freshman time to adjust the college game, learn how to play defense at this level, acclimate with their teammates, etc.
Yeah I did. Did you read my post? If he bent his knees on D, held his defensive hedge about half a beat longer, and went for rebounds outside of his area he would look like he's showing more effort. It maybe a style thing, but I thought he showed more effort and hops last year.
His 5 bounds and 6 points were good contributions in his 19 minutes, but his play hasn't convinced me he's getting everything out of what I see out of a very good potential.
His 5 bounds and 6 points were good contributions in his 19 minutes, but his play hasn't convinced me he's getting everything out of what I see out of a very good potential.
