Not naming names, not saying anything. Just a hypothetical…
If LSU played an ineligible player, what would the repercussions be?
- Thread starter BlIIlken2
- Start date
If it was severe enough to where it plainly violates rules of eligibility, then the NCAA could (they don't always......) vacate wins that this player participated in while ineligible.
Curious, are there still grade requirements to remain eligible, or have academics been removed from eligibility?
Apparently you can play with a sub 2.0 GPA, not sure what the exact requirements are...maybe I need to ask CHATGPT?
LSU ACADEMIC Requirements
To maintain eligibility, a student-athlete must:- Maintain a full-time schedule (at least 12 credits) at all times;
- Pass at least six (6) credit hours per semester. In the sport of football, a student-athlete must pass nine (9) credit hours and earn the Academic Progress Rate (APR) eligibility point during the fall semester;
- Pass at least 18 credit hours each academic year; and
- Entering 3rd semester of enrollment, a student-athlete must meet the following percentage of degree and/or GPA requirements:
- Prior to 3rd semester- maintain at least a 1.8 overall GPA
- Prior to 5th semester- meet 40% completion of degree and maintain at least a 1.9 overall GPA
- Prior to 7th semester- meet 60% completion of degree and maintain at least 2.0 overall GPA
- Prior to 9th semester- meet 80% completion of degree and maintain at least 2.0 overall GPA
Probably about time to do away with the whole "student athlete" farce. They're athletes, period, and basically professional athletes in many cases. Some happen to be students. Let's finally agree to do away with the pretense and just call them athletes.
Championships can be vacated as well. The only problem is that Iowa does not suddenly become National Champion.
Remember 1997, when Minny won the B1G title and Iowa came in 2nd? Well, in 2000 it came out that a tutor was writing a lot of term players for several players on that 1997 team. As a result of the academic fraud, Minny vacated the B1G Championship and Iowa, unfortunately, was not named regular season B1G Champion.
In 1971, Villanova (men) finished second to UCLA by 6 points in the national championship game. Howard Porter of Villanova was named outstanding player in the Final Four.
It was subsequently discovered that Porter was ineligible -- I think he had taken money from an agent, something like that. His individual award was vacated and Villanova forfeited the games in which he played and returned the money it had received for advancing in the tournament.
It was subsequently discovered that Porter was ineligible -- I think he had taken money from an agent, something like that. His individual award was vacated and Villanova forfeited the games in which he played and returned the money it had received for advancing in the tournament.
This would be a level of karma that might make me start believing in a higher power again. Wouldn't it just be beautiful on so many levels?
This is a very low bar.
Iowa
19
NCAA ACADEMIC REQUIREMENTS:
At all times students must pass a minimum of 6 credit hours each term (a minimum
of 9 hours completed for football student-athletes during the fall term).
Students are expected to pass a minimum of 18 credit hours between the fall and
spring terms.
Entering a student’s... GPA Required Minimum Degree Progress Requirements
Second Year 1.80 24 hours earned
Third Year 1.90 40% of degree completed
Fourth Year 2.00 60% of degree completed
Fifth Year 2.00 80% of degree completed
BIG TEN ACADEMIC REQUIREMENTS:
Students in their first year must complete a minimum of 12 credit hours per term
and 24 hours at the certifying institution during the academic year.
Grade-Point Average Calculation – Incompletes or Conditional Grades count as zero
grade points in a student’s UI grade point average used for eligibility and
certification. Students cannot become eligible to compete during a term if the
student is not academically eligible on the first day of classes of that term
The 4th bullet, regarding GPA minimums, is from the NCAA Academic Requirements. Not unique to LSU.
I think both of my posts basically stated NCAA requirements. Still looking to see if there is anything specific to each school (although Iowa listed B1G requirements).
I don't disagree.
I would seriously like to know how many of these athletes would have gone to school if there was no football or basketball. Certainly many would have if they could figure out how to pay for it. But certainly many are there just to play ball.
And I wonder how many basketball players even bother to take classes in their final semester?
I think the time will arrive in my lifetime when it's all unbundled. That will be quite interesting.
Ditto. If you can't hit this you probably are not trying or have a learning disability.
That is what needs to happen. Whether or not it will is another question. It’s an absolute travesty and a fvcking joke that many (not all) of these athletes in the revenue sports are forced to go through the charade of being “students.” And I say “forced” realizing they are not literally forced, but in a practical sense they are since that is the only realistic path they have to reach their professional goal. There desperately needs to be a paid vocational system dedicated to development of high school athletes who desire to be professional football and basketball players similar to what exists for baseball and hockey. Universities were never meant to be farm systems for professional sports.
Not a farce. Plenty of them get good grades and diplomas.
I have no idea on the answer, but how many football players at Iowa and Iowa State would fall into the 'just athletes' category? How many do you think take their academics seriously?
That's a popular myth...but a myth none-the-less. D1 athletes graduate at similar rates to the general student population. DII and DIII athletes actually graduate at a higher rate than the general student population. Cliche' as it may sound, structure, discipline, goals...make a difference.
We can all think of examples of big time college jocks who are just putting in the reps until they go pro, no doubt. But they're the exception, not the rule. (fewer than 2% end up in professional sports)
https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2022/11/16/ncaa-reports-graduation-rates-athletes
Definitely a farce. Some get diplomas. Many don't. Many get paid. They're pros, and some are students. They sure as heck aren't all student athletes. Not by a long shot.
Don't let the facts get in your way. You've already decided.
https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2022/11/16/ncaa-reports-graduation-rates-athletes
And this is making your point? 1 out of 3 don't graduate. Let's look at graduation rates for football and basketball, the revenue sports. I'm sure it's even worse.
Then, of course, you have those who graduate with horrendous GPA's and never really bothered to attend class, etc., just doing the bare minimum, and there have been documented instances where someone else is doing their homework, etc. So even among those who graduate, it's a very mixed bag, but I won't even factor that in.
I do appreciate your help in making my point. It's a farce, and your facts support that position quite well, thank you.
It goes without saying that we're talking D1.
Reese had a 1.8 or 1.9 because she was eligible to play but not eligible for the Wooden award (which has a 2.0 GPA minimum)
So college admissions in general must be a farce in your eyes. Graduation rates of the general student population aren't significantly different from the athletes. (did you look at the link?).
BTW, graduation rates among D1 athletes have been steadily improving for 20 years.
https://www.ncaa.org/news/2021/12/2...tes-continue-to-graduate-at-record-highs.aspx
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Hmmmm. i don't see how anything he provided supports your position. The only way that could be is if someone, not saying who, has no ability to comprehend what they read. Oh. By the way, the graduation rate for Iowa football was 81%. and 89% for all athletics. Just saying.
The NCAA could vacate LSU's championship, but they won't care. The players will still have their rings and their fans will still claim the title.
That's a whole separate issue, but I think a very good argument can be made that college admissions, and college in general, is pretty farcical these days. And yes, I think 1 in 3 students failing to graduate is pretty awful.
But getting to the heart of the matter, let's look at football and basketball. Those are the sports we're really talking about. If you're this interested, maybe you can find some links with data on those 2 sports in D1. Let's talk about that.
I have no idea. Just posting the info.
Heck I might have had a semester like that. I can’t really judge her on anything I am so far from perfect I can’t even see it.
I agree. Should at least be some type of human/ethical standard the athlete has to adhere to tho… like not provide a murder weapon to a teammate (Miller for Alabama) or not be arrested for assault (Morris for LSU) or have an ounce of self awareness (Reese for LSU).
I’m as big of a sports nut as anyone - and clearly understand there is huge money in sports. But honestly - what tangible value or skill do most athletes add to society? Great, you can shoot a ball or throw a ball or run real fast. But what value does that actually have if you’re a horrible person? I just don’t understand it. I’d rather we continue to show value for exceptional people who can do both - showcase an exceptional physical talent while excelling as a good person/student.
It will be interesting to compare the lives of Clark and Reese 20 years from now. See which turned out better.
I disagree that it "needs to happen", but it probably will someday.
I also disagree that "it's an absolute travesty and a fvcking joke" that athletes go to class. It's still college football - I still believe that the players get something out of the academic portion of their commitment, even if they aren't very good or very serious students.
And, I disagree that there is a "desperate need" for a minor league sports equivalent for basketball and football. If that happens, we lose what we have. No one is going to care about the Iowa City Hawkeyes or whatever you call them. Not to mention that the end of college football and basketball also means the end of every other college sports team, like wrestling, women's BB, etc.
I believe college sports is heading toward a cliff. But I am in no hurry to get there.
Okay, I have to admit that I’m not sure I fully understand your position now. Perhaps I didn’t articulate mine very well.
I believe that “many” (that may be an overstatement, depends on how you define) college athletes in the revenue generating sports are masquerading as students for 1, 2, or 3 years. I don’t blame them—it’s their only path right now to acquire the development and exposure they need to do what they really want to do eventually. But I think it’s a joke that they need to enroll in a “degree program” they have no interest in or intention of ever completing. When AT&T commercials poke fun at “1 and Done” wireless plans with Kentucky players and mascots, come on.
I also believe that “most” (read: the vast majority) of athletes, revenue sports included, are legitimate students (whom I have tremendous respect for, btw, being able to handle both academics and sports). I’m sure a significant number have ambitions to play at the next level (and many do), but they probably also understand the odds and see the degree that they can earn via a scholarship as being something extremely valuable.
What I am asking/saying is why should the kids in the first group (in football and basketball) have to go through this phony pretense of being a college student for a couple years when the high school kids with the highest potential for professional success in baseball and hockey don’t? I don’t think that group (elite HS football/basketball players) is currently being served well by the system. Thus the need in my opinion for an alternative (maybe desperate is too strong, but we’re starting to see huge shifts in the paradigm: NIL, possible unionization, etc., so perhaps desperate is actually close to being on point).
And I get that we (college sports fans), may lose. But maybe not so much. After all, college baseball seems to do pretty well in the South, even with baseball’s minor league system in existence. There will be a LOT of football/basketball players not elite enough to be drafted right out of HS, if such a farm system existed. College fans will still be passionate. Maybe that still generates sufficient revenue to fund the other sports you mention, or most of them? I think it’s debatable.
In the end, I just don’t believe the current system is in the best interest of the elite HS athlete, and I don’t think it’s consistent with what the mission of a university should be. But it is the status quo, and the status quo is a powerful thing.
The only reason why I would like this is to deny Reese that ring.
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LSU is near bottom of the barrel when it comes to academia. Even if a player could manage to not meet requirements they would cheat to cover it up. The whole state of Louisiana is an academic train wreck.
I mean Mulkey says she’s good to go academically so it’s gotta be true…her ineligibility for the Naismith must be related to that “community service stuff.” She seems more like a “**** the kids” rather than a “for the kids” gal
“Oh absolutely, she is in good academic standing period,” Mulkey said. “It’s just there’s a criteria on some of these awards like, a lot of them will have community service stuff. Some of them will have GPA’s, yeah. She’s academically fine.”
https://justwomenssports.com/reads/angel-reese-wooden-award-criteria-lsu-basketball/
“Oh absolutely, she is in good academic standing period,” Mulkey said. “It’s just there’s a criteria on some of these awards like, a lot of them will have community service stuff. Some of them will have GPA’s, yeah. She’s academically fine.”
https://justwomenssports.com/reads/angel-reese-wooden-award-criteria-lsu-basketball/
