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Improving the NIT

BeepBeepInMyJeep

HB Legend
Jun 28, 2010
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Quick, who won the NIT last year? Obviously it's just Mon- Wed TV filler and you probably didn't watch a minute of it. You won't watch any games Iowa isn't playing either.

So instead of playing for " We're number 69!" And a meaningless banner....why don't they give the BIT champ an auto bid to next year's NCAA tournament? The team would be seeded the next year just like anyone else. If it was won by a team with a bunch of stud seniors (unlikely) and they ended up going 10-21 the next year then they play a 16 seed play in game. The worst case scenario is that you'd lose one of those mediocre bubble teams. If the NITchamp ends up being really good the next year, then they get a good seed and nobody's out anything.

Thoughts?
 
The NIT will probably just remain the NCAA's testing ground where they use it to test new rules like they are this year. I think that's the value the NCAA sees in it.
 
That has to be the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. You don't reward a team from what they did the previous season, you reward a team for what they did in the current season.

I have seen, and probably posted much dumber things... stick around and get your pop corn ready...

I don't really like the idea the OP presented mostly for the reasons you cited, however, I appreciate some out of the box ideas and thinking, often times, good conversation, and great ideas can be spawned from open dialogue sparked by bad ideas.
 
That has to be the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. You don't reward a team from what they did the previous season, you reward a team for what they did in the current season.
You may want to talk to pollsters then about keeping blue bloods high even though they're not performing to their ranking in football and basketball. They get rewarded for history.
 
OP, I'm not a fan of your proposal, but I like where your head's at in terms of trying to make the NIT a more relevant tournament. What if we just condensed your time frame, squeeze in the NIT before the NCAAs go back to a field of 64, with may be the final 4 bubble teams being decided by the NIT...
 
I would like to see the NIT winner get an invite to MAUI? Just kidding.

What I would like to do for that tournament is let them play a "non-conf game" the following year. So for example lets say Iowa plays Auburn this year in the NIT at Carver. Then next year in the non-conf Iowa and Auburn play (opposite site as last years game). Just kind of a "revenge" game what you will, but also will allow some of these "smaller" schools an opportunity to get a big NON-conf game at their place. I don't know how it would work, but watching Kentucky vs Robert Morris a few years back was pretty cool. Something different.

Blast me for the idea, but I would just like more of these teams to travel in the non-conf.
 
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what if the NIT champion, Maui champion, the other tournament no one knows the name of champion, NCAA tournament champion, the Bahamas Champion etc...

What if there was a preseason tournament of champions that you could only play in the following season as a previous season champion?
 
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Screw selection Sunday. Just put all teams in the tournament with a winning record which is like football basically needing a winning record for the bowl game. If you need play in games (oops, the NCAA would incorrectly call that the first round) to get even brackets, so be it. I know, it makes the conference tournaments less meaningful, but when conferences are getting 6 or 7 teams in the big dance, it isn't that significant
 
That has to be the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. You don't reward a team from what they did the previous season, you reward a team for what they did in the current season.

It's not entirely a meritocracy. Some things are done in the sport are done in the interest of fan excitement and driving revenue. The right and just thing to do would be to hand out the at large bid to the regular season champ for the one bid leagues. But that's not terribly interesting. Same general rule applies here. Currently the NIT is a Mickey Mouse tournament, and nobody but potentially one fringe at large team would be put out whatsoever by making the NIT more exciting for the fans. More interest = more money and an overall good impact for the sport.
 
I've always looked at the NIT as being an award consisting of players getting the opportunity to represent their school some more if they're graduating, and for returnees getting more PT for the next year.
 
Quick, who won the NIT last year? Obviously it's just Mon- Wed TV filler and you probably didn't watch a minute of it. You won't watch any games Iowa isn't playing either.

So instead of playing for " We're number 69!" And a meaningless banner....why don't they give the BIT champ an auto bid to next year's NCAA tournament? The team would be seeded the next year just like anyone else. If it was won by a team with a bunch of stud seniors (unlikely) and they ended up going 10-21 the next year then they play a 16 seed play in game. The worst case scenario is that you'd lose one of those mediocre bubble teams. If the NITchamp ends up being really good the next year, then they get a good seed and nobody's out anything.

Thoughts?


Much like the NIT is "Mon-Wed filler", your post was Mon-Thurs Game Time Filler.
 
You can call the NIT whatever you want, but it's more games the younger guys get to play together. It's more Hawkeye basketball that I get to watch (hopefully at home).

The NCAA is obviously the goal at this point, but a few extra games in the NIT is a decent consolation for very young team. I'll always remember the Dayton game as one of the best games and most exciting games I've seen in person.
 
what if the NIT champion, Maui champion, the other tournament no one knows the name of champion, NCAA tournament champion, the Bahamas Champion etc...

What if there was a preseason tournament of champions that you could only play in the following season as a previous season champion?
I like this idea a lot.
 
Also saying "we're number 69" when referring to the NIT is one of the dumbest comments in all of sports.

If you honestly believe that the top 68 teams make the NCAA tournament you should stop watching basketball all together and punch yourself in the sack, because you are a drooling idiot.
 
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You can call the NIT whatever you want, but it's more games the younger guys get to play together. It's more Hawkeye basketball that I get to watch (hopefully at home).

The NCAA is obviously the goal at this point, but a few extra games in the NIT is a decent consolation for very young team. I'll always remember the Dayton game as one of the best games and most exciting games I've seen in person.
The run to the NIT final in 2013 was a blast! Got to watch a young Hawkeye team play a ton of really good ball. Way more fun than a one and done in the dance.
 
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The run to the NIT final in 2013 was a blast! Got to watch a young Hawkeye team play a ton of really good ball. Way more fun than a one and done in the dance.
Very true. That was a nice run and they played and beat some good programs in Virginia and Maryland. Well worth the consolation of not being invited to the NCAA tournament IMO.
 
The run to the NIT final in 2013 was a blast! Got to watch a young Hawkeye team play a ton of really good ball. Way more fun than a one and done in the dance.
Very true. That was a nice run and they played and beat some good programs in Virginia and Maryland. Well worth the consolation of not being invited to the NCAA tournament IMO.

NIT is obviously the consolation tourney, but that win at Virginia was as impressive as many teams' Sweet 16 wins. It probably varies from year to year, but teams that make it to Madison Square Garden are usually playing at a pretty high level, especially if they pick up a road win along the way.
 
Small D1 conferences to the NIT? Rename it to honor those participants. Give the Big Tournament to the Big Conferences. But share the money between both.
 
Small D1 conferences to the NIT? Rename it to honor those participants. Give the Big Tournament to the Big Conferences. But share the money between both.
I'd agree with that instead of them them taking a spot away from one of the top 64/68 teams.

Think about it, a 16 has never beat a one seed. Ever. I understand the format now and it's cool for that's no name conferences to represent their peers, but they have absolutely no chance to win the tournament. Even a team ranked in the 60's would be nearly impossible.

I would rather see the top 64 teams in the country play. Get rid of the play in games and get rid of the automatic bids. Have your committee rank the top 64 teams and go from there. Next 32 teams go to the NIT.
 
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I'd agree with that instead of them them taking a spot away from one of the top 64/68 teams.

Think about it, a 16 has never beat a one seed. Ever. I understand the format now and it's cool for that's no name conferences to represent their peers, but they have absolutely no chance to win the tournament. Even a team ranked in the 60's would be nearly impossible.

I would rather see the top 64 teams in the country play. Get rid of the play in games and get rid of the automatic bids. Have your committee rank the top 64 teams and go from there. Next 32 teams go to the NIT.

Awesome. A mythical NCAA basketball championship to go along with the football championship.
 
Awesome. A mythical NCAA basketball championship to go along with the football championship.
Huh?

How would it be mythical if the best 64 teams played it out in a tournament to find the champion?

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it?
 
Small D1 conferences to the NIT? Rename it to honor those participants. Give the Big Tournament to the Big Conferences. But share the money between both.
I get where you're coming from, but a lot of the mass appeal of the tournament is that anyone can get in and have a crack at the top dogs.

I'd have all the regular season conference champions and send everyone else to the NIT. But I have strange ideas about earning your place over the long haul.
 
Huh?

How would it be mythical if the best 64 teams played it out in a tournament to find the champion?

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it?

Comprehension of what a true national championship is certainly isn't your strong suit.
 
Comprehension of what a true national championship is certainly isn't your strong suit.

You're not going to find many better ways to find a more true national champion than putting the top 64 teams in the country together and playing a tournament. In no way would this be mythical. That is exactly what I originally said, which you somehow took as a mythical national champion, probably because you don't read good or do other things good.

Go back and read (slowly) what I originally posted, which was also a response to Dan who was talking about PLAYING two tournaments (NCAA / NIT).
 
You're not going to find many better ways to find a more true national champion than putting the top 64 teams in the country together and playing a tournament. In no way would this be mythical. That is exactly what I originally said, which you somehow took as a mythical national champion, probably because you don't read good or do other things good.

Go back and read (slowly) what I originally posted, which was also a response to Dan who was talking about PLAYING two tournaments (NCAA / NIT).

Ok, iahawks, you obviously don't know the definition of a "true" national championship as opposed to a "mythical" national championship. Instead of slinging insults at you, I will explain it:

Under the umbrella of a true national championship system, every single team (or individual, in sports such as swimming, wrestling, etc) within a division has a fair chance at winning the national championship. Teams play a regular season and sometimes a conference/regional tournament to determine who gets a chance at this privilege. Of course, most national championship tournaments also include a number of at-large berths. The bottom line is that no matter what size your program is or what conference it is in, when the season starts, it has a defined path to the national championship.

NCAA FBS football, on the other hand, determines a mythical national champion. This is because not every team in FBS has a clear and fair path to the national championship. The teams given this privilege are determined by a committee's selection process only. Even with the new "playoff," the championship is still mythical. A team from the Sun Belt that goes 12-0 has no chance to play for the national championship. There have even been instances of BCS/Power 5 teams going undefeated and left out of the national championship picture, and this could still happen.

Your proposal of putting "the best 64 teams" into a tournament to determine the Div 1 NCAA basketball championship, with no consideration of auto bids for every conference, poses the problem of becoming a mythical national title tournament, whether you want to believe it or not, since it would be excluding numerous Div 1 teams from a chance to compete for the title. Your "in no way would this be mythical" statement is plain false.

If you propose that Div 1 basketball be subdivided into 1A and 1AA, with 1A being the "Big" schools and 1AA being the smaller schools, with the NIT becoming the new 1AA basketball national championship tournament, that might be worthy of discussion, but that is not really what you said. There will be ongoing talk about splitting Div 1 football into a 3rd subdivision, with the Power-5 conferences the only members, and a true 8-team national championship tournament. Doing what you suggested for basketball would be going in the opposite direction.

So, be careful with your "reading comprehension" insults when you don't exactly know what you're talking about.
 
NIT is not the NCAA. I (most people) would take a NCAA first round loss vs a NIT showing. The NCAA is the bees knees. It takes the cake and the games are awesome! It is also a HUGE recruiting tool. It gets you into parts of the country that you normally don't get into.

The 2013 NIT run was good for the Iowa program for 2 reasons. 1) it stopped the bleeding after getting hosed in the BTT. 2) it gave a young group of players a chance to play on the road and against some top competition. They got a trip to NYC and play in the Garden. It was "key" point in rebuilding the program.

This year I will be happy with either. Just 2 weeks ago I was expecting no post season. We are already positioned well for the NIT. I am hoping we can win 1-2 in DC and get into the NCAA.
 
First off, the OP's concept is, in some ways, similar to how some sports leagues have a lower tier and upper tier where finishing at the top of the lower tier moves you up into the upper tier the next season. That doesn't mean I'm in favor of it, but the concept of rewarding a team for last year's success isn't entirely without precedent.

Also saying "we're number 69" when referring to the NIT is one of the dumbest comments in all of sports.

If you honestly believe that the top 68 teams make the NCAA tournament you should stop watching basketball all together and punch yourself in the sack, because you are a drooling idiot.

This. The NIT champion is clearly much, much better than a large percentage of the NCAA tourney field.

You're not going to find many better ways to find a more true national champion than putting the top 64 teams in the country together and playing a tournament. In no way would this be mythical. That is exactly what I originally said, which you somehow took as a mythical national champion, probably because you don't read good or do other things good.

Go back and read (slowly) what I originally posted, which was also a response to Dan who was talking about PLAYING two tournaments (NCAA / NIT).

I'm guessing his point is that you have a tournament champion, nothing more. Look at some of the teams that have won the NCAA tourney....some are clearly not the best teams in the country, they just got on a hot streak at the right time or were blessed with better teams being upset before they had to face them. NC State under Valvano is a perfect example. Being a "National Champion" that didn't even win your conference's regular season championship is really pretty lame. Just look at people who discount winning the BTT as a conference championship...winning the NCAA tourney isn't really national championship, it's a national invitational tourney championship.
 
Quick, who won the NIT last year? Obviously it's just Mon- Wed TV filler and you probably didn't watch a minute of it. You won't watch any games Iowa isn't playing either.

So instead of playing for " We're number 69!" And a meaningless banner....why don't they give the BIT champ an auto bid to next year's NCAA tournament? The team would be seeded the next year just like anyone else. If it was won by a team with a bunch of stud seniors (unlikely) and they ended up going 10-21 the next year then they play a 16 seed play in game. The worst case scenario is that you'd lose one of those mediocre bubble teams. If the NITchamp ends up being really good the next year, then they get a good seed and nobody's out anything.

Thoughts?
I would like to see a 64 team NIT with some DII and DIII teams sprinkled in the tourney. It is just for fun isn't it?
 
Quick, who won the NIT last year? Obviously it's just Mon- Wed TV filler and you probably didn't watch a minute of it. You won't watch any games Iowa isn't playing either.

So instead of playing for " We're number 69!" And a meaningless banner....why don't they give the BIT champ an auto bid to next year's NCAA tournament? The team would be seeded the next year just like anyone else. If it was won by a team with a bunch of stud seniors (unlikely) and they ended up going 10-21 the next year then they play a 16 seed play in game. The worst case scenario is that you'd lose one of those mediocre bubble teams. If the NITchamp ends up being really good the next year, then they get a good seed and nobody's out anything.

Thoughts?

I see where you are going, but what happens is you have to then justify a team possibly going 13-18 and getting an auto bid to the NCAA? I think you have to judge a team based on how he current years schedule - not what they did last year.
 
I always thought that the pre-season NIT (think it no longer exists) bracket should have been identical to the prior year's NCAA Sweet 16 bracket. I know there are logistical issues re scheduling and participation could not be mandatory, but it would be a fun kick-off to the start of the season even if rosters had changed significantly.
 
You want a true national championship, put all the teams in the NCAA and do away with the NIT altogether.

That's just mythical because there are no automatic bids from conferences who have no chance surviving the first weekend, let alone win the whole tournament.

Somewhere I read in multiple paragraphs that automatic bids eliminate the mythical national champion and determine a true champion. :rolleyes:
 
Just for fun, here's a mockup of a tournament of regular season champions only, matched up based on KenPom rankings (good as any). I'd consider even making these a 3-game series so there's no doubt who really earned the national title. Still good matchups, and the NIT could serve as the best of the rest tournament, with loads of name teams.

#1 Gonzaga
#32 Mt St Mary's

#16 Princeton
#17 Monmouth

#8 SMU
#25 UC Irvine

#9 Arizona
#24 Oakland

#4 North Carolina
#29 North Dakota

#13 Vermont
#20 Belmont

#5 Kansas
#28 NC Central

#12 Mid Tenn St
#21 Florida GC

#3 Kentucky
#30 New Orleans

#14 UNC Wilmington
#19 Bucknell

#6 Wichita St
#27 South Dakota

#11 Nevada
#22 Akron

#7 Purdue
#26 Winthrop

#10 Dayton
#23 CSU Bakersfield

#2 Villanova
#31 Texas Southern

#15 E Tenn St
#18 UT Arlington

Seeds would indicate the following for the later rounds, which looks pretty much like any from the current format
Sweet Sixteen
Gonzaga-Princeton
SMU-Arizona
UNC-Vermont
Kansas-MTSU
Kentucky-Wilmington
Wichita-Nevada
Purdue-Dayton
Nova-ETSU

Final Four
Gonzaga-UNC
Kentucky-Nova
 
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