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In an effort to bridge the Fan Gap as the season….

cmhawks99

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Jul 23, 2002
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Comes in view. I think it would make sense to review what the “real” problem is between the two distinct sides. Of course there are off-shoots, but for the most part there are people like me, Heat, Nu2u, Soybean, IChawk24, etc…there are obviously many more who have a similar line of thought to me.

I too have been sad and frustrated by our inconsistencies in recent year (I’ve never been bothered by our recruiting incidentally) and being completely honest..I wouldn’t have cared so much had KF moved on. Sometimes you can be a great coach, manager, owner, leader and still not be able to get back on top. I did not however think he got lazy or “fat” or the game had passed him by. Speaking of lazy that’s what those thoughts come from. Lazy unimaginative opinions from infertile minds.

But once again we were losing and it WAS frustrating. We can all agree on that, but here is where the road divides. These are just some comments that are regularly made that have zero to very little merit. I can even sometimes see how it gets started but a little perspective and investigation quickly undoes the faulty belief….

An old favorite even perpetuated by Jon Miller, Dolph, Eddy Podolak, etc…Mark Weisman was too slow to run the zone stretch. The Truth is Weisman went on to run what would have been one of the top 5 to 10 best 10 yard sprints for Rbers at the combine. He lost steam at the top end, but short area he was fast. I told anyone who would listen he was plenty fast to the hole. What he lacked was vision, wiggle and cut back ability. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t still the best option on that team, especially considering the injuries to others. What people seem to miss is that play gets stuffed out in the NFL constantly with penetration just like it did us. Doesn’t mean it’s not a good play nor that they don’t still run it a ton. We didn’t block it well, end of story.

Here are some others that have been repeatedly refuted but still get repeated….

KF rarely unseats an experienced player, really?! I’ll wager it has now happened 20-30 times plus. Just because people are convinced it should have happened at other times is purely conjecture and Ill happily trust the professionals to make those decisions.

We are too conservative and don’t throw down field enough, really?? The cool thing about the BTN is replays. YouTube as well for that matter& I have to tell you, if I listened to the critic I’d likely believe it. Iowa runs one of those offenses that seem slower paced than it really is. Call it sneaky of you will. After watching many, not one, but many of these replays, we threw down field waaayyyy more than people apparently cared to remember. We didn’t complete a ton for sure, but they were thrown….

Here is a goody, Greg Davis sucks…Hmmm, well here is what I have to say to the Texas and Iowa fans perpetuating that myth. He has coached at a high level for 40 years, put at least two QB’s in the NFL and won an NC. That doesn’t happen to bad coaches. But hell, we didn’t like KOK either.

We need to play our game breakers whether they fumble, can block, run routes, etc….never mind those guys don’t play anywhere else but hey they should here.

Or how about our Lbers are slow, these aren’t even D1 caliber athletes on their march to the NFL…The Truth is I have watched and followed Iowa combine and Pro days for 15 years now. We are rarely slow, in particular we haven’t fielded a slow Lber by NFL standards unless we were 3 or 4 deep in 15 years. Incidentally this gets said at almost every position.

Or the we can’t recruit very well, even considering we have placed about 25 2-star/walk-ons in the NFL. Here is the deal, that’s good recruiting. You recruit what you see…they saw talent and that’s what they got.

How about we need to blitz more, even though the replays showed every blitz we ran we got torched. I think they mean we need to blitz better…?!

There are more but here is the thing. Every fan on here that has called me or these others condescending, egotistical, arrogant, pompous or a know it all, shares the exact same trait. The difference being they see things that are easily refuted and they get mad about it.

Here is the rub, I hate to lose, I’ll wager they do to…Coaching or leading is very tough and easy to criticize, but honestly the Internet critic isn’t really very aware of what is really going on. It is very tough to get 100 men or even 12 going in the same direction.
 
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What was that 14 paragraph rant all about then?

My piece de resistance.., haven't been around for a while and won't be here for long got to make up for lost time friend.

You'll have to do better than that with me.
 
Did we go back in time one year?

Yes.... And since I didn't read last year but I did a few months ago and people were still pissing moaning about all the mistakes KF made in past years I thought it would be good to clarify things
 
I don't care whether GD sucks or not, I truly dislike his offense. And I was on board with KOK when so many wanted something newer and more exciting. I think much of the GD complaints are based on the same thing - we don't like his playbook, the love for the sidelines.
 
Chad would have made a good Nazi. "Guys, stop questioning what Hitler is doing, he just wants to win and he knows more that you guys do. Get on board and be a real German."
 
How about we need to blitz more, even though the replays showed every blitz we ran we got torched. I think they mean we need to blitz better…?!

There are more but here is the thing. Every fan on here that has called me or these others condescending, egotistical, arrogant, pompous or a know it all, shares the exact same trait. The difference being they see things that are easily refuted and they get mad about it.

The whole thing was a good laugh, but these two portions were my favorites. Let me tell you idiots how everything you complain about is wrong and easily refuted!
 
Chad would have made a good Nazi. "Guys, stop questioning what Hitler is doing, he just wants to win and he knows more that you guys do. Get on board and be a real German."


That's awesome, and a pretty typical misdirection tactic. That's what everyone says when they don't like being questioned and have no rebuttal...next?

Super ironically i've done a whole bunch of reading about Hitler and the Nazi regime lately. Huge contingent of people who are convinced almost the entire leading hierarchy of the party were militant homeosexuals.

But more to your point they were you, constantly telling lies and people believed them or kept their mouth shut. That's clearly not me....:)

I'm a major proponent of facts and the truth. You not so much !
 
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The whole thing was a good laugh, but these two portions were my favorites. Let me tell you idiots how everything you complain about is wrong and easily refuted!

Funny pepper I was thinking about you when I penned this. I read something that heat dawg posted about you saying our linebackers were slow & unathletic how'd that turned out...?!

Clearly you haven't a clue, but more to the truth your a reactionary. Yu get pissed off and you just say dumb crap that's really what's wrong with most of you.
 
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I don't care whether GD sucks or not, I truly dislike his offense. And I was on board with KOK when so many wanted something newer and more exciting. I think much of the GD complaints are based on the same thing - we don't like his playbook, the love for the sidelines.

I don't necessarily disagree but quite frankly that's an NFL offense nowadays friends! You watch Green Bay how many times they throw that quick pass to the sidelines or Dallas or hell everyone?
 
Listen this is just the same rhetoric you guys pawn off every time.

“Oh sure go ahead & stick your head in the sand…”

“That’s what the NAZI’s did..”

“If it were left up to people like you we’d never have fight the revolution…”

Its weak, whiny misdirection attempts with no substance. Go watch a video like the rest of us had to. People like Davey or Pep trying saying stuff like “oh sure your always right…” By the way that’s what women do….have something of substance. In fact I’m not responding until someone says something new or challenging because the rest of this tripe is tired.

If you don’t like it go find some video or series of plays that prove your point of view, sadly you can’t….You are reactionaries. Something didn’t work your mad about it and just spouting nonsense.

I don’t blame people for being mad but try to know what the hell you are talking about…Yes I’m talking to you Pep.
 
Funny pepper I was thinking about you when I penned this. I read something that heat dawg posted about you saying our linebackers were slow & unathletic how'd that turned out...?!

Clearly you haven't a clue, but more to the truth your a reactionary. Yu get pissed off and you just say dumb crap that's really what's wrong with most of you.

Here is what heat_dawg posted from me. Just for the record.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Pepperman:

Like most on here, I cannot claim to be "excited" for Iowa football this year. I'm sick of the same old crap - slow, unathletic, plodding, brutal-to-watch football. Iowa doesn't get the ball into the hands of its best skill players, which is rule #1 of the college game.

Two potential reasons to be excited though:
1) Anything better than 8-4 will come out of nowhere.
2) Anything worse than 6-6 and KF is probably gone.

Yup, we'll go 7-5.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
I don't care whether GD sucks or not, I truly dislike his offense. And I was on board with KOK when so many wanted something newer and more exciting. I think much of the GD complaints are based on the same thing - we don't like his playbook, the love for the sidelines.
I really liked KOK's offense. Those big fake handoff, play action, 9 step drops hitting the skinny post 50 yards downfield still make 'it' move.
 
Weisman wasn't good at making cut backs? That is precisely why he never should have been running the zone stretch! The whole point of that play is to open up a cutback lane for the back!
 
That's awesome, and a pretty typical misdirection tactic. That's what everyone says when they don't like being questioned and have no rebuttal...next?

Super ironically i've done a whole bunch of reading about Hitler and the Nazi regime lately. Huge contingent of people who are convinced almost the entire leading hierarchy of the party were militant homeosexuals.

But more to your point they were you, constantly telling lies and people believed them or kept their mouth shut. That's clearly not me....:)

I'm a major proponent of facts and the truth. You not so much !

Your whole post was full of fallacies and made up crap. Not facts.
 
Weisman wasn't good at making cut backs? That is precisely why he never should have been running the zone stretch! The whole point of that play is to open up a cutback lane for the back!

This was one of my favorite parts of the post. In one breath he says Weisman was good enough for the zone stretch play and then right after it he said he wasn't good at cutting back. Genius.

Also loved the part that said he has looked at the tape and every time Iowa blitzed they got burned. That is obviously true...:/
 
"We are too conservative and don’t throw down field enough, really?? The cool thing about the BTN is replays. YouTube as well for that matter& I have to tell you, if I listened to the critic I’d likely believe it. Iowa runs one of those offenses that seem slower paced than it really is. Call it sneaky of you will. After watching many, not one, but many of these replays, we threw down field waaayyyy more than people apparently cared to remember. We didn’t complete a ton for sure, but they were thrown…."

So you're telling everybody else that we don't have facts to support our arguments, and then you ramble this paragraph out!? Your arguments contain no facts, "I've seen them throw long on YouTube" is meaningless, much like your entire post.
 
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Also love this whopper, "we haven't fielded a slow LB by NFL standards for 15 years". First, what is considered slow by NFL standards. Second, no way he checked the speed of every LB of the last 15 years who has made a start.
 
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"We are too conservative and don’t throw down field enough, really?? The cool thing about the BTN is replays. YouTube as well for that matter& I have to tell you, if I listened to the critic I’d likely believe it. Iowa runs one of those offenses that seem slower paced than it really is. Call it sneaky of you will. After watching many, not one, but many of these replays, we threw down field waaayyyy more than people apparently cared to remember. We didn’t complete a ton for sure, but they were thrown…."

So you're telling everybody else that we don't have facts to support our arguments, and then you ramble this paragraph out!? Your arguments contain no facts, "I've seen them throw long on YouTube" is meaningless, much like your entire post.

This cracks me up.
 
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An old favorite even perpetuated by Jon Miller, Dolph, Eddy Podolak, etc…Mark Weisman was too slow to run the zone stretch. The Truth is Weisman went on to run what would have been one of the top 5 to 10 best 10 yard sprints for Rbers at the combine. He lost steam at the top end, but short area he was fast. I told anyone who would listen he was plenty fast to the hole. What he lacked was vision, wiggle and cut back ability. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t still the best option on that team, especially considering the injuries to others. What people seem to miss is that play gets stuffed out in the NFL constantly with penetration just like it did us. Doesn’t mean it’s not a good play nor that they don’t still run it a ton. We didn’t block it well, end of story.

Weisman actually had elite vision running between the tackles when he didn't get penetration. As long as the blocking was good, his ability to always pick the right hole on inside zone was uncanny, the best short yardage runner I have seen at Iowa. He also had good short area speed as you said.

The problem was that he did not have the cutting ability to go with that vision and he didn't have the top end speed to capitalize on a big hole. The lack of cutting ability is what made him struggle on outside zones when we gave up penetration. That was the primary source of fan complaints.

To me a RB should primarily be judged on their ability to beat penetration, that is the primary predictor of NFL success. Without it you will never run the ball against a really good defense.
 
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Weisman actually had elite vision running between the tackles when he didn't get penetration. As long as the blocking was good, his ability to always pick the right hole on inside zone was uncanny, the best short yardage runner I have seen at Iowa. He also had good short area speed as you said.

The problem was that he did not have the cutting ability to go with that vision and he didn't have the top end speed to capitalize on a big hole. The lack of cutting ability is what made him struggle on outside zones when we gave up penetration. That was the primary source of fan complaints.

To me a RB should primarily be judged on their ability to beat penetration, that is the primary predictor of NFL success. Without it you will never run the ball against a really good defense.


The above is an example of healthy discourse. I didn’t even bother reading what the other chaps said because they never bring anything different to the table. As for Mr. Biceps I even agree for the most part and said he had no wiggle. However nobody beats the kind of penetration that ate him up on the stretch and he could not break it back inside. But honestly I have watched a bunch of NFL the last couple years since I got free NFL network and that very play and result happen a bunch with Rbers who have elite speed.

Finally although I agree with your premise I do not agree that’s what fans said. If I heard it once I have literally heard it 1000 times. They blamed his speed, which was NOT the problem. I’d like the person complaining to at least have a clue what IS the problem. They rarely do…

Obviously you do….thanks for the thoughts.
 
Comes in view. I think it would make sense to review what the “real” problem is between the two distinct sides. Of course there are off-shoots, but for the most part there are people like me, Heat, Nu2u, Soybean, IChawk24, etc…there are obviously many more who have a similar line of thought to me.

I too have been sad and frustrated by our inconsistencies in recent year (I’ve never been bothered by our recruiting incidentally) and being completely honest..I wouldn’t have cared so much had KF moved on. Sometimes you can be a great coach, manager, owner, leader and still not be able to get back on top. I did not however think he got lazy or “fat” or the game had passed him by. Speaking of lazy that’s what those thoughts come from. Lazy unimaginative opinions from infertile minds.

But once again we were losing and it WAS frustrating. We can all agree on that, but here is where the road divides. These are just some comments that are regularly made that have zero to very little merit. I can even sometimes see how it gets started but a little perspective and investigation quickly undoes the faulty belief….

An old favorite even perpetuated by Jon Miller, Dolph, Eddy Podolak, etc…Mark Weisman was too slow to run the zone stretch. The Truth is Weisman went on to run what would have been one of the top 5 to 10 best 10 yard sprints for Rbers at the combine. He lost steam at the top end, but short area he was fast. I told anyone who would listen he was plenty fast to the hole. What he lacked was vision, wiggle and cut back ability. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t still the best option on that team, especially considering the injuries to others. What people seem to miss is that play gets stuffed out in the NFL constantly with penetration just like it did us. Doesn’t mean it’s not a good play nor that they don’t still run it a ton. We didn’t block it well, end of story.

Here are some others that have been repeatedly refuted but still get repeated….

KF rarely unseats an experienced player, really?! I’ll wager it has now happened 20-30 times plus. Just because people are convinced it should have happened at other times is purely conjecture and Ill happily trust the professionals to make those decisions.

We are too conservative and don’t throw down field enough, really?? The cool thing about the BTN is replays. YouTube as well for that matter& I have to tell you, if I listened to the critic I’d likely believe it. Iowa runs one of those offenses that seem slower paced than it really is. Call it sneaky of you will. After watching many, not one, but many of these replays, we threw down field waaayyyy more than people apparently cared to remember. We didn’t complete a ton for sure, but they were thrown….

Here is a goody, Greg Davis sucks…Hmmm, well here is what I have to say to the Texas and Iowa fans perpetuating that myth. He has coached at a high level for 40 years, put at least two QB’s in the NFL and won an NC. That doesn’t happen to bad coaches. But hell, we didn’t like KOK either.

We need to play our game breakers whether they fumble, can block, run routes, etc….never mind those guys don’t play anywhere else but hey they should here.

Or how about our Lbers are slow, these aren’t even D1 caliber athletes on their march to the NFL…The Truth is I have watched and followed Iowa combine and Pro days for 15 years now. We are rarely slow, in particular we haven’t fielded a slow Lber by NFL standards unless we were 3 or 4 deep in 15 years. Incidentally this gets said at almost every position.

Or the we can’t recruit very well, even considering we have placed about 25 2-star/walk-ons in the NFL. Here is the deal, that’s good recruiting. You recruit what you see…they saw talent and that’s what they got.

How about we need to blitz more, even though the replays showed every blitz we ran we got torched. I think they mean we need to blitz better…?!

There are more but here is the thing. Every fan on here that has called me or these others condescending, egotistical, arrogant, pompous or a know it all, shares the exact same trait. The difference being they see things that are easily refuted and they get mad about it.

Here is the rub, I hate to lose, I’ll wager they do to…Coaching or leading is very tough and easy to criticize, but honestly the Internet critic isn’t really very aware of what is really going on. It is very tough to get 100 men or even 12 going in the same direction.
I always wondered if the operators of these sites plant both really positive or really negative posts just to get a lot of traffic??? This post makes me believe you are an actual operater of the site. Why else would you post such comments??? Not, that I disagree with all of them but what is the need?
 
I always wondered if the operators of these sites plant both really positive or really negative posts just to get a lot of traffic??? This post makes me believe you are an actual operater of the site. Why else would you post such comments??? Not, that I disagree with all of them but what is the need?


Pi#$ Off the prolateriat....:cool:
 
The above is an example of healthy discourse. I didn’t even bother reading what the other chaps said because they never bring anything different to the table. As for Mr. Biceps I even agree for the most part and said he had no wiggle. However nobody beats the kind of penetration that ate him up on the stretch and he could not break it back inside. But honestly I have watched a bunch of NFL the last couple years since I got free NFL network and that very play and result happen a bunch with Rbers who have elite speed.

Finally although I agree with your premise I do not agree that’s what fans said. If I heard it once I have literally heard it 1000 times. They blamed his speed, which was NOT the problem. I’d like the person complaining to at least have a clue what IS the problem. They rarely do…

Obviously you do….thanks for the thoughts.

The problem with Weisman essentially was his lack of speed in my opinion. He wasn't slow for his size, but I thought his style of running back wasn't what Iowa needed with the lack of big plays we were getting on offense. Our passing game wasn't generating many big plays, so you either need a big play running back or you need to convert a hell of a lot of first downs to have a successful scoring offense. Weisman's strengths were his patience in the zone blocking scheme and his ability to move the pile. His vision was decent but he routinely missed big cut-back plays that I think a quicker, shiftier back could have pulled off. When the line did create big holes, Weisman would hit it but would only get maybe 10-12 yards where someone like Canzeri might get 40. I'm not saying Weisman was bad, just a different style of running back. And, in my opinion, not the style of running back that Iowa's offense needed at that time. Of course, at certain times there were no other viable backs available.
 
The problem with Weisman essentially was his lack of speed in my opinion. He wasn't slow for his size, but I thought his style of running back wasn't what Iowa needed with the lack of big plays we were getting on offense. Our passing game wasn't generating many big plays, so you either need a big play running back or you need to convert a hell of a lot of first downs to have a successful scoring offense. Weisman's strengths were his patience in the zone blocking scheme and his ability to move the pile. His vision was decent but he routinely missed big cut-back plays that I think a quicker, shiftier back could have pulled off. When the line did create big holes, Weisman would hit it but would only get maybe 10-12 yards where someone like Canzeri might get 40. I'm not saying Weisman was bad, just a different style of running back. And, in my opinion, not the style of running back that Iowa's offense needed at that time. Of course, at certain times there were no other viable backs available.

Another good framing of a rebuttal or an opinion…Most of the time other options weren't available from my memory. But here is what I do remember. ALL his big gains were outside and Marc Morehouse charted that a few years back. What he could not do was break it back inside at all. Nor did he have any lateral jump cutting ability. His shuttle times, 10 yard times and 20 yard times showed him to be not only fast but quite athletic. I believe he even went onto run a 4.62 Forty at Iowa’s Pro day which would be faster than many NFL Rbers. But alas he was still just a straight ahead or one gap runner with ZERO wiggle and no cutback ability. Also no spin, no juke, just plowing ahead. That was his limitations.
 
e9477dcfedefb471fa721f413330ed83.jpg
 
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The problem with Weisman essentially was his lack of speed in my opinion. He wasn't slow for his size, but I thought his style of running back wasn't what Iowa needed with the lack of big plays we were getting on offense. Our passing game wasn't generating many big plays, so you either need a big play running back or you need to convert a hell of a lot of first downs to have a successful scoring offense. Weisman's strengths were his patience in the zone blocking scheme and his ability to move the pile. His vision was decent but he routinely missed big cut-back plays that I think a quicker, shiftier back could have pulled off. When the line did create big holes, Weisman would hit it but would only get maybe 10-12 yards where someone like Canzeri might get 40. I'm not saying Weisman was bad, just a different style of running back. And, in my opinion, not the style of running back that Iowa's offense needed at that time. Of course, at certain times there were no other viable backs available.
I think the bolded portion is really what hurt Iowa the most offensively during the latter portion of Iowa's 5 year "down" stretch. Our biggest deep threat was Damond Powell who, while capable of making a big play, dropped quite a few balls. Additionally, Jake Rudock was a QB who didn't make big plays with his feet while also being hesitant to throw the ball downfield. Finally, Weisman was a fine back, but his "style" of running didn't really work when the entire defense is keying in on him. If we had a deep threat at receiver the box wouldn't have been loaded every offensive play Iowa ran that year.

IMO, one of the reasons Marcus Coker found a lot of success in 2011 was because teams were pretty worried about stopping a senior Marvin McNutt.

Another big reason I'm pretty excited about some of the receivers we're beginning to see come through the program.
 
The problem with Weisman essentially was his lack of speed in my opinion. He wasn't slow for his size, but I thought his style of running back wasn't what Iowa needed with the lack of big plays we were getting on offense. Our passing game wasn't generating many big plays, so you either need a big play running back or you need to convert a hell of a lot of first downs to have a successful scoring offense. Weisman's strengths were his patience in the zone blocking scheme and his ability to move the pile. His vision was decent but he routinely missed big cut-back plays that I think a quicker, shiftier back could have pulled off. When the line did create big holes, Weisman would hit it but would only get maybe 10-12 yards where someone like Canzeri might get 40. I'm not saying Weisman was bad, just a different style of running back. And, in my opinion, not the style of running back that Iowa's offense needed at that time. Of course, at certain times there were no other viable backs available.
Was not Mark Weisman originally a fullback and was converted out on need? Expecting a lot. Some of the posters on this forum should try it at home and see how you get along!
 
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