In Defense of Sides

[2D_]

We went from a blanket terrible teammate to well she is this weird shooting guard that shoots the ball so she is a bad teammate.

Because of context…well at least a nice attempt at back peddling.

Are you stupid? Like genuine question. Have you not read my posts, or are you just reading what you want to read? What an embarrassing response. All you have to do is read, it isn't hard. I literally wrote in my first post regrading Mitchell: Watching her run around the court with the ball as if it's 1 on 5 while not passing isn't smart basketball.

But I get it, you don't have an argument so you omit things I've said and try to recontextualize my argument into something it isn't. Gotta keep that "I'm the smart poster" persona going somehow.

 

[ZachJump]

Are you stupid? Like genuine question. Have you not read my posts, or are you just reading what you want to read? What an embarrassing response. All you have to do is read, it isn't hard. I literally wrote in my first post regrading Mitchell: Watching her run around the court with the ball as if it's 1 on 5 while not passing isn't smart basketball.

But I get it, you don't have an argument so you omit things I've said and try to recontextualize my argument into something it isn't. Gotta keep that "I'm the smart poster" persona going somehow.

What do you think is more plausible?

A player is out on the court being selfish and doing only what they want, and the coach is still playing that player the entirety of the game,

or


A player is out on the court, that typically gets their first touch with less than 15 seconds left on the shot clock, and follows the coaches direction of get the ball up or make a move and create your own shot?

 

[2D_]

What do you think is more plausible?

A player is out on the court being selfish and doing only what they want, and the coach is still playing that player the entirety of the game,

or


A player is out on the court, that typically gets their first touch with less than 15 seconds left on the shot clock, and follows the coaches direction of get the ball up or make a move and create your own shot?

I've already established Mitchell is one of the deadliest shooters in the league and the Fever must retain her if they want a championship level team. But more often than not, once she has the ball, no one else will be touching it the rest of the possession as she weaves her way around the court for 15 seconds until she has to force an attempted layup before time expires. It just looks bad and desperate.

As I stated previously, I think CC has rubbed off on her and shown her the value of passing. But Mitchell has to knock off the hero ball stuff when there are teammates who have a better look than she does. It makes the team better and it will make her better.

Attempting to imply I want her to shoot it much less just isn't true. We can get her wide open looks because of how many players CC can draw to her. Sides just needs to do a better job of drawing up plays to get Mitchell open, because she's money when she has half a second to line up her shot.

 

[BrewHawk]

A persons character is defined by what they do and say when nobody is looking. In this case the crap many post here about other people, while hiding behind their username, tells me far more about a person than what I would learn in person.

How dare you be so anonymously critical of these people.

 

[ZachJump]

How dare you be so anonymously critical of these people.

I am not anonymously being critical of anyone….I plagiarized my drivers license for my username. 25 years on forums, have basically always used one variation or another of my actual name.

 

[kceasthawk]

A persons character is defined by what they do and say when nobody is looking. In this case the crap many post here about other people, while hiding behind their username, tells me far more about a person than what I would learn in person.

OH, I agree 100%..... 😏

 

[ZachJump]

OH, I agree 100%..... 😏

Except I don’t post under a pseudonym…you can google my username and find out anything you want about me.

 

[Hawksfor3]

A lot of getting better onb offense was scrapping her offense and transitioning to Iowa style offense and getting out of the way. The larger problem is getting the other players to buy in and switching to the ones that are better suited to play that way. I think a big part of the issues were that many of the starters were better in the other style of play and had to adjust or be swapped out. Wheeler wa an all star in 2019, so she might be a much better player in one on one than in read/react. I think the adjustment to Bostons game has been remarkable, as has the recent adjustment in Hull/Mitchell. I dont know how much is Caitlin, and how much is the coaches on that. But its time for Sides to prove that she can develop team defense. Still curious about Grace B not getting minutes, looking in from the outside she seems to fit skills wise.

Agree. Nice piece!

 

[kceasthawk]

Except I don’t post under a pseudonym…you can google my username and find out anything you want about me.

Great Happy for you. Like it matters. Like any of these guys is going to show up at your door. NONE of this shit is that important..

 

[ZachJump]

Great Happy for you. Like it matters. Like any of these guys is going to show up at your door. NONE of this shit is that important..

Some of you treat it like your are fighting to defend the dignity of your handicapped little sister, Caitlin, who obviously in the eyes of many here is not capable of defending herself.

 

[RIGHTWINGHAWK]

Sides isn’t the reason the team is winning. The roster has gelled a bit, especially over the Olympic break. CC has taken over ownership of the offense and made it her own. Mitchell is playing much more within the offense, And they’ve played several teams that had multiple olympians that just looked tired because they didn’t get a break.

Sides still doesn’t know when to ask for a review or how to adjust in the 3rd quarter to the other team’s halftime adjustments. The defense is slightly improved, so I’ll give her that. But I still say they’re winning in spite of her. Reminds me an awful lot of Magic’s first few seasons with Westhead. Except he was a better coach than Sides.

I have to give credit to Mitchell. Two months ago I said she had no future with the Fever. I think she may have flipped that completely as she is now playing a team game and flourishing as opposed to her ball hog, me against the world play style from early this season. If only Smith would adjust to do the same, but I don’t think she has the maturity yet to do that.

As of now the Fever have four starter positions locked in for next year, assuming KM stays, in CC, AB, LH, and KM. And Temi as a backup should be locked in. The rest of the roster is meh. Maybe KLS will be better next year with another year back from having a baby, but she isn’t worth what her contract is right now. Wheeler needs to be gone. Smith needs to be gone. And I don’t know that anyone else on the roster matters.

I'd like to see Berger get some playing time. She has upside potential but rarely gets playing time. Samuelson and Wallace have gone from starters to back of the bench.

 

[Tenacious E]

I'd like to see Berger get some playing time. She has upside potential but rarely gets playing time. Samuelson and Wallace have gone from starters to back of the bench.

Respectfully disagree. Berger isn’t good enough. Samuelson offers size but Berger just offers a stiffer version of Wallace, who is a shadow of the player hull is. To me the starting five should be Clark, Wallace, hull, temi, and Boston. Bench js smith, Samuelson and dantas. Wallace in an emergency.

 

[littlez]

I'd like to see Berger get some playing time. She has upside potential but rarely gets playing time. Samuelson and Wallace have gone from starters to back of the bench.

Don’t you think if she could play at all she’d be playing? Especially being the local girl. The rotation is pretty damn good right now.

 

[JimStarr777]

Respectfully disagree. Berger isn’t good enough. Samuelson offers size but Berger just offers a stiffer version of Wallace, who is a shadow of the player hull is. To me the starting five should be Clark, Wallace, hull, temi, and Boston. Bench js smith, Samuelson and dantas. Wallace in an emergency.

We don’t really know what Berger offers in a CC led offense because we haven’t had a chance to see it. Not that I think Sides is messing up by not playing her…sometimes we fans need to see it to believe it. That said, Wheeler has stepped it up the last couple games. She IS a team player, which I like about her.

 

[Tenacious E]

We don’t really know what Berger offers in a CC led offense because we haven’t had a chance to see it. Not that I think Sides is messing up by not playing her…sometimes we fans need to see it to believe it. That said, Wheeler has stepped it up the last couple games. She IS a team player, which I like about her.

We don’t but sides sees it in practice.

 

[JimStarr777]

We don’t but sides sees it in practice.

Yeah. That’s why I said we fans sometimes need to see it ourselves before we actually believe it. You know…the ‘ol adage that “The backup quarterback is the most popular player on the team.” Lol

 

[Hawksbyamillion]

Yeah. That’s why I said we fans sometimes need to see it ourselves before we actually believe it. You know…the ‘ol adage that “The backup quarterback is the most popular player on the team.” Lol

I feel the same. Sides is doing better now but as long and as much as she started and played Wallace, it doesn’t exactly make a fan feel confident that she’s a good evaluator of talent. Not to mention she’s had some questionable substitutions, though I feel that’s getting much better as the season has gone on.

 

[littlez]

I feel the same. Sides is doing better now but as long and as much as she started and played Wallace, it doesn’t exactly make a fan feel confident that she’s a good evaluator of talent. Not to mention she’s had some questionable substitutions, though I feel that’s getting much better as the season has gone on.

So it’s easy to criticize her from early in the season. However, do we really think many teams would have ran out of the gate with that crazy difficult schedule? And one of the youngest teams in the league? Oh, and 2 weeks of practice with a pt guard that you’re handing the keys over to. Let’s be real here. The fact the Fever have gotten back to 500 is a testament to everyone, including the coach. I’m not worried about the last player on the bench. And who is she going to take minutes from?

 

[Hawksbyamillion]

So it’s easy to criticize her from early in the season. However, do we really think many teams would have ran out of the gate with that crazy difficult schedule? And one of the youngest teams in the league? Oh, and 2 weeks of practice with a pt guard that you’re handing the keys over to. Let’s be real here. The fact the Fever have gotten back to 500 is a testament to everyone, including the coach. I’m not worried about the last player on the bench. And who is she going to take minutes from?

I am being real, that’s why I said she is doing better. But I think you’re misunderstanding where I’m coming from. Think we’re all in agreement the crazy schedule and lack of practice time early on were not doing the team or coaches any favors and Sides does deserve a pass to a certain extent for that alone.

I’m not suggesting Berger take anyone’s minutes btw, but since you asked…If Wheeler started to play poorly like she had early on for stretches, that’s when I would have liked to see Berger given a chance is all. Given how long it took Sides to realize certain players shouldn’t be starting or playing the amount of minutes they were, not to mention poor in game adjustments and substitutions, it makes a fan wonder how efficient she is at evaluating her roster. Many of us understandably questioned her letting Taylor go at a time when our defense really was struggling. Like I said, there’s definitely been improvement though.

She may well be a damn good coach, but she’s also in year 2 of being a head coach. It’s not like there’s 10 years of head coaching experience to go off of how she’s managed teams in the past. That’s not a knock on her, she just doesn’t have a lot of experience but she is getting more each day. A while back Jan talked about how Caitlin ended up with Bluder at the right time in Bluder’s career, which I took to mean the experience Bluder had as a head coach at that time. Bluder likely still would have done well with a player like Clark in her first 5 years of coaching, but maybe not to the degree that we’ve witnessed the past two seasons. Coaches can develop and get better over time just like players.

Whether Berger sees action or not isn’t something I give a lot of thought to TBH. But since I am somewhat familiar with her from playing in the Big Ten and she was by all accounts an effective point guard, I have wondered how she would do in some games with spot minutes is all. Don’t think there’s anything wrong with wondering that. That’s how I understood what JimStar777 was saying as well. This is a message board after all, so these sorts of conversations are bound to come up, especially on a day the team isn’t playing. 😉

 

[Tenacious E]

I am being real, that’s why I said she is doing better. But I think you’re misunderstanding where I’m coming from. Think we’re all in agreement the crazy schedule and lack of practice time early on were not doing the team or coaches any favors and Sides does deserve a pass to a certain extent for that alone.

I’m not suggesting Berger take anyone’s minutes btw, but since you asked…If Wheeler started to play poorly like she had early on for stretches, that’s when I would have liked to see Berger given a chance is all. Given how long it took Sides to realize certain players shouldn’t be starting or playing the amount of minutes they were, not to mention poor in game adjustments and substitutions, it makes a fan wonder how efficient she is at evaluating her roster. Many of us understandably questioned her letting Taylor go at a time when our defense really was struggling. Like I said, there’s definitely been improvement though.

She may well be a damn good coach, but she’s also in year 2 of being a head coach. It’s not like there’s 10 years of head coaching experience to go off of how she’s managed teams in the past. That’s not a knock on her, she just doesn’t have a lot of experience but she is getting more each day. A while back Jan talked about how Caitlin ended up with Bluder at the right time in Bluder’s career, which I took to mean the experience Bluder had as a head coach at that time. Bluder likely still would have done well with a player like Clark in her first 5 years of coaching, but maybe not to the degree that we’ve witnessed the past two seasons. Coaches can develop and get better over time just like players.

Whether Berger sees action or not isn’t something I give a lot of thought to TBH. But since I am somewhat familiar with her from playing in the Big Ten and she was by all accounts an effective point guard, I have wondered how she would do in some games with spot minutes is all. Don’t think there’s anything wrong with wondering that. That’s how I understood what JimStar777 was saying as well. This is a message board after all, so these sorts of conversations are bound to come up, especially on a day the team isn’t playing. 😉

There are many on here with much better acumen on the nitty gritty than me. From a macro standpoint my biggest criticism of sides now is the lack of knowing when to call a time out when we are in the cusp of blowing a lead and challenging calls for review. In terms of the mid season, she made great adjustments to counter the blitzing and doubling of Caitlin. However, I think a better coach would have been better prepared going into game one for that. Back on the positive side, by mid season she more or less let control of the offense go to Caitlin, and letting her flow. It’s very Iowa like now.

 

[Rocket_Fran]

What do you think is more plausible?

A player is out on the court being selfish and doing only what they want, and the coach is still playing that player the entirety of the game,

or


A player is out on the court, that typically gets their first touch with less than 15 seconds left on the shot clock, and follows the coaches direction of get the ball up or make a move and create your own shot?

Setting them up with a false dichotomy specifically circumventing the nuance of the other's argument. Ay, Dios mio.

The first 6 weeks Mitchell was plainly more of the ball hog mentality. She's definitetly slowly adapted throughout the year to the point she is at today which is great. I don't think it was even intentional to start the year but bad habits from years on a crappy team as the only good player.

 

[moondog24]

My problem is she doesn’t change her defense based on who they are playing or what’s happening in the game. She will come out against the Sky and play the same defense and make this a really difficult game when it’s obvious they should play a zone against them since they can’t shoot from the perimeter and they kill on the offensive glass. Every middle school coach in the country would know enough to run a zone, but she won’t. She’ll have Smith covering (and getting destroyed by) Reese.

Zones work in middle school, not so much in the W with the best women players in the world.

 

[AWS1022]

Zones work in middle school, not so much in the W with the best women players in the world.

Actually, quite the opposite…every time I’ve seen a team run one, it’s worked because the other team doesn’t know how to break it. And I guarantee it would work against the Sky because they can’t shoot from outside.

 

[littlez]

Actually, quite the opposite…every time I’ve seen a team run one, it’s worked because the other team doesn’t know how to break it. And I guarantee it would work against the Sky because they can’t shoot from outside.

Then why does nobody play them in the NBA or WNBA consistently?

 

[AWS1022]

Then why does nobody play them in the NBA or WNBA consistently?

Because many coaches are all about man to man and/or they don’t know how to teach it correctly because they never learned.

 

[Andrew Houk]

@AWS, your point about outside shooting is well-taken, as is your point about teams often not knowing what to do against a zone. As an aside, I once heard Tom Davis get asked why he liked using zone so much and he said that early in his career he noticed that most zone offenses were pretty clunky and crappy. Regarding playing zone against Chicago, though, defensive rebounding in a zone is often pretty dicey. Speaking from my personal experience as an unathletic person trying to compete with more athletic people, it's harder to get people boxed out when you're in zone. So I'd be pretty hesitant to go zone against Angel Reese. As much as I loathe her, she is a very good offensive rebounder and could create a lot of problems on the offensive glass.

 

[JimStarr777]

@AWS, your point about outside shooting is well-taken, as is your point about teams often not knowing what to do against a zone. As an aside, I once heard Tom Davis get asked why he liked using zone so much and he said that early in his career he noticed that most zone offenses were pretty clunky and crappy. Regarding playing zone against Chicago, though, defensive rebounding in a zone is often pretty dicey. Speaking from my personal experience as an unathletic person trying to compete with more athletic people, it's harder to get people boxed out when you're in zone. So I'd be pretty hesitant to go zone against Angel Reese. As much as I loathe her, she is a very good offensive rebounder and could create a lot of problems on the offensive glass.

Tom Davis and that press. Great when it worked, but his unwavering dedication to it, even when the other team needed to throw a full court pass and shoot in the last couple seconds, was maddening. I remember a loss to Missouri one year because he ran the full court press in the last second and they just threw deep to an open man who, I think, made a layup to beat us.

 

[AWS1022]

@AWS, your point about outside shooting is well-taken, as is your point about teams often not knowing what to do against a zone. As an aside, I once heard Tom Davis get asked why he liked using zone so much and he said that early in his career he noticed that most zone offenses were pretty clunky and crappy. Regarding playing zone against Chicago, though, defensive rebounding in a zone is often pretty dicey. Speaking from my personal experience as an unathletic person trying to compete with more athletic people, it's harder to get people boxed out when you're in zone. So I'd be pretty hesitant to go zone against Angel Reese. As much as I loathe her, she is a very good offensive rebounder and could create a lot of problems on the offensive glass.

Reese doesn’t get rebounds because she boxes out, she gets rebounds because she runs to the ball and no one else is there. If she can get around her defender she has a wide open rebound. With a zone, there will be three people already there. It puts more bodies under the basket. Very few in the W box out at all.

 

[AWS1022]

There are many on here with much better acumen on the nitty gritty than me. From a macro standpoint my biggest criticism of sides now is the lack of knowing when to call a time out when we are in the cusp of blowing a lead and challenging calls for review. In terms of the mid season, she made great adjustments to counter the blitzing and doubling of Caitlin. However, I think a better coach would have been better prepared going into game one for that. Back on the positive side, by mid season she more or less let control of the offense go to Caitlin, and letting her flow. It’s very Iowa like now.

I think Sides’ biggest weakness is she does not work the officials. Officials are human and they tend to not give the calls to a coach that they know won’t say anything or question them on anything. Sides said the players (mainly Clark) should let her get the technicals then she went out and got her only one of the year and hasn’t had one since. And you don’t have to get a technical to work the officials. Guys like Coach K and Calipari worked the officials constantly…could be why they got a lot of calls. You can’t just passively allow refs to screw you game after game. The last game was a result of what happens when a coach doesn’t get control.

 

[Hawksfor3]

Listen as he names the coaches. A familiar name appears. Starts at under the 24 min mark.

 

[Hawksbyamillion]

Listen as he names the coaches. A familiar name appears. Starts at under the 24 min mark.

View embedded media

 

[Hawksfor3]

I think he meant Lisa, or, he missed yesterday's debacle LOL.

 

[ft254]

OK, some of her substitution patterns are still questionable, but I am starting to come around a little bit on Sides

• After going 1-8 in May, they are 14-8 since. That's a 64% clip, which would be 4th highest in the league.
• Their defense started out horrible, but they are improving. Probably up to slightly below average now.
• Good team chemistry (stark contrast to the Sky). With all the attention that Clark gets, this could have easily gone sideways.
• Boston has figured out the high post role. Setting better screens and she is a LOT better at passing to open shooters.
• Mitchell and Clark both want the ball in their hands. It just wasn't working early in the year. Still a ways to go, but they a working together much better now.
• Regarding the occasional questionable substitution patterns, you have to remember that other than Clark/Mitchell/Boston (and sometimes Hull), she does not have a lot to work with.

Discuss amongst yourselves....

I basically degree.

She has shone patience which allowed the team to jell and made good on-court decisions.

CC is error prone but is part of her stitch. Take it or leave it, if she plays for you, she gives you TOs.

But, 8.5 assists, 20 points, 5 RBs, full arenas. I think every franchise will trade for her in a micro second.

Michell is a scoring machine but out of control every minute. The youngest team in the league needs another TEAM player. A talented player willing to play within the team concept.

 

[littlez]

I basically degree.

She has shone patience which allowed the team to jell and made good on-court decisions.

CC is error prone but is part of her stitch. Take it or leave it, if she plays for you, she gives you TOs.

But, 8.5 assists, 20 points, 5 RBs, full arenas. I think every franchise will trade for her in a micro second.

Michell is a scoring machine but out of control every minute. The youngest team in the league needs another TEAM player. A talented player willing to play within the team concept.

Mitchell is far from "out of control every minute."

 

[Beattheohiostate]

I tried, but I got nothin'.