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Interesting electoral math . . .

torbee

HB King
Gold Member
Really excellent piece in The Bulwark today (the Bulwark, btw, was started by actual conservative Republicans who can't stomach Trump, so it tends to be less "rah-rah, GO DEMS!" than most left-leaning outlets)

Anyway, they basically lay out the two different strategies the GOP and the Democrats have, based on math. And how each side is trying a different gambit to win.

Good read:

Donald Trump’s ceiling is somewhere in the neighborhood of 46.5 percent of the national vote. His only path to victory is a narrow band in which he’s able to turn out just enough of his low-propensity voters in three to five states to draw a slim Electoral College victory.

The Harris campaign served notice last night that it is not interested in fighting trench warfare in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. This campaign is comfortable enough with its base that it sees the opportunity to take from Trump and blow the map wide open. This is a ticket that wants to compete in North Carolina, Nevada, Georgia, and maybe even Texas.


The contrast with the Republican convention is kind of shocking when you think about it.

In Milwaukee the Republicans trotted out Hulk Hogan and Dana White, Kid Rock and JD Vance. There was no play for the center: The entire theory of the campaign put forward by that convention was that Trump will win by cranking up the animating spirits of the online right. By energizing the people who voted for him in 2016 and 2020. By giving his voters more people who looked, and sounded, and thought like them. By portraying Democratic voters as a bunch of terrorists hellbent on destroying the country.


These are two very different theories of the election. Trump is running to get to 47 percent. Harris is running to get to 52 percent.

But there’s something deeper going on here.

The reason Trump is aiming for 47 percent is because the Electoral College makes minority rule possible for the rural party. Which incentivizes the rural party to be insular and to focus on energizing—not expanding—its coalition.

By disadvantaging the urban party, the Electoral College incentivizes it to broaden its coalition. Which means that the Democratic party of this moment must be constantly seeking to expand its reach and bring in new constituencies if it is to have a chance at holding executive power.

In other words: The Electoral College distorts the character of our parties, nudging one of them to be a majority-seeking organism and the other to be a base-pleasing organism. The character of our two parties today flows from the system architecture used to allocate power.

This is a high, abstract concept. But it explains—perfectly—what we have seen at the two conventions.


Here is the full Bulward article - highly recommend you give them a follow if you like astute political reporting: https://www.thebulwark.com/p/democr...&isFreemail=false&r=12sbjk&triedRedirect=true
 
Another reason the Electoral College needs to be abandoned.
Maybe not abandoned, but tweaked.

Given how demographics in this country have changed, it should be more weighted.

I am OK with giving smaller population rural states SOME extra advantage - even as a progressive, I do not want the entire country to be governed based on the needs of only people in NYC, LA and Chicago.
 
The Dems have a great strategy ...hang on to WI/MI/PA and they win.

Spend just enough time and $$$ in the other battlegrounds to cause Trump to spend his limited funds.
Throw in NC and Florida and the Radical Right runs out of time.
The Dems do need to keep AZ and NV Senate seats, tho.
 
The Dems have a great strategy ...hang on to WI/MI/PA and they win.

Spend just enough time and $$$ in the other battlegrounds to cause Trump to spend his limited funds.
Throw in NC and Florida and the Radical Right runs out of time.
The Dems do need to keep AZ and NV Senate seats, tho.
Which makes Harris picking Walz even less sense when you think about it electorally.
 
Which makes Harris picking Walz even less sense when you think about it electorally.
Huh?

Read the article - it is EXACTLY why they picked him!

He helps them sway rural, gun-toting, hunting loving, football coaching, Busch Light drinking regular dudes to feel OK voting for the Democratic ticket.
 
Huh?

Read the article - it is EXACTLY why they picked him!

He helps them sway rural, gun-toting, hunting loving, football coaching, Busch Light drinking regular dudes to feel OK voting for the Democratic ticket.
You are going off the premise that it is working and will work. Again, talking about the electoral college and the options she had, she picked the wrong guy. Secondly, no regular dudes are voting for the Democratic ticket.
 
You are going off the premise that it is working and will work. Again, talking about the electoral college and the options she had, she picked the wrong guy. Secondly, no regular dudes are voting for the Democratic ticket.
What defines a regular dude to you? I grew up on a farm in Iowa. I’m Methodist. I am a long time business executive who loves football and most sports. I’m a member of Swarm. I drink beer. I have two wonderful kids, one works as a data scientist for a large American company, the other is a sophomore at Iowa studying business. I’m straight, the no pic is a successful executive in her own right for a startup in Chicago. I have voted for democrats and Republicans (pre-Trump anyway).

I am 100% voting for Harris.
 
You are going off the premise that it is working and will work. Again, talking about the electoral college and the options she had, she picked the wrong guy. Secondly, no regular dudes are voting for the Democratic ticket.
No Way Eye Roll GIF by ESPN
 
Huh?

Read the article - it is EXACTLY why they picked him!

He helps them sway rural, gun-toting, hunting loving, football coaching, Busch Light drinking regular dudes to feel OK voting for the Democratic ticket.
I think I’d have picked Shapiro personally, but I think Walz checks off a lot of those same boxes as well.
You are going off the premise that it is working and will work. Again, talking about the electoral college and the options she had, she picked the wrong guy. Secondly, no regular dudes are voting for the Democratic ticket.
Early returns would suggest thus far that picking Walz has been a net positive. Certainly much better than Vance has been for the Trump campaign.
 
What defines a regular dude to you? I grew up on a farm in Iowa. I’m Methodist. I am a long time business executive who loves football and most sports. I’m a member of Swarm. I drink beer. I have two wonderful kids, one works as a data scientist for a large American company, the other is a sophomore at Iowa studying business. I’m straight, the no pic is a successful executive in her own right for a startup in Chicago. I have voted for democrats and Republicans (pre-Trump anyway).

I am 100% voting for Harris.
This.

My friend T.W. is an NRA member, skeet shooting enthusiast, hunting dog owner, beer drinking redneck who drives a 15-year-old Chevy Silverado, belongs to the Milan Gun Club and will be voting for Harris/Walz.

So is my friend K.A. who works for Rock Island Auction - the largest gun auction site in the United States.

The "regular Midwest guy" is definitely a demographic where the Democrats can haul in a LOT of new constituents by not being anti-American assholes like the current iteration of the GOP.

Which Hexum would know had he READ the article I linked and not did the usual low i.q. drive-by comment thing which is BAU for the Bitch Baby party members.
 
I think I’d have picked Shapiro personally, but I think Walz checks off a lot of those same boxes as well.

Early returns would suggest thus far that picking Walz has been a net positive. Certainly much better than Vance has been for the Trump campaign.
That was Bill Kristol (former right wing editor of the Weekly Standard who is part of the Bulwark)'s premise - until last night:

Walzpilled

Fine. He was great.

Josh Shapiro gave a very good speech last night. Then Tim Walz came out and took the house down. Absolutely comfortable in his own skin. Perfectly suited to the moment. The best-possible counterweight for Kamala Harris and a strategic nightmare for Trump.

I. Was. Wrong.

Walz was the best pick.

Two things:

(1) The fact that Harris was able to see that Walz was the best pick is encouraging. It’s a data point showing good judgment and sound political instincts. That’s a nice-to-have.

(2) Being right is kind of my thing, but I’m happy to understand when I’m wrong. At The Bulwark we try—very hard—to never mortgage ourselves to our priors. And we try to hold that line whether we’re talking about politics or policy or anything else.
 
Maybe not abandoned, but tweaked.

Given how demographics in this country have changed, it should be more weighted.

I am OK with giving smaller population rural states SOME extra advantage - even as a progressive, I do not want the entire country to be governed based on the needs of only people in NYC, LA and Chicago.
Such a bad take. The Senate already fills this "small rural state" advantage. Gerrymandering has given that same "rural pop." an advantage in the House by slicing up and diluting urban areas. And the EC of course does the same thing for the Presidency.

Face it, across the board, all advantages are tilted to the rural areas over direct democracy by the majority urban zones.
 
Such a bad take. The Senate already fills this "small rural state" advantage. Gerrymandering has given that same "rural pop." an advantage in the House by slicing up and diluting urban areas. And the EC of course does the same thing for the Presidency.

Face it, across the board, all advantages are tilted to the rural areas over direct democracy by the majority urban zones.
And the right-wing SCOTUS was brought to us by those same presidents and senators.
 
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Such a bad take. The Senate already fills this "small rural state" advantage. Gerrymandering has given that same "rural pop." an advantage in the House by slicing up and diluting urban areas. And the EC of course does the same thing for the Presidency.

Face it, across the board, all advantages are tilted to the rural areas over direct democracy by the majority urban zones.
I mean, as a Democrat, I'm not going to cry if they get rid of the Electoral College - my party's policies are far more popular to a majority of American voters now and have been for the last half-dozen or more national elections.

But I don't think the reason for its existence is moot.
 
TL;DR Summary:
Jonathan V. Last discusses the Democratic Party's strategy during the 2024 election, highlighting their efforts to expand their voter base beyond their traditional coalition. The Democrats are making a deliberate play for rural white voters, a demographic typically aligned with the Republican Party. The Democratic National Convention featured speakers like Tim Walz, Oprah Winfrey, and Geoff Duncan, who emphasized unity and appealed to voters across the political spectrum. The article contrasts this approach with the Republican strategy, which focuses on energizing their existing base. Last also admits that he was initially skeptical about Tim Walz as Kamala Harris's running mate but was ultimately impressed by his performance and his ability to resonate with voters. Lastly, Last praises the football program at St. Joe’s Prep in Philadelphia for its dominance and success despite limited resources.
 
Maybe not abandoned, but tweaked.

Given how demographics in this country have changed, it should be more weighted.

I am OK with giving smaller population rural states SOME extra advantage - even as a progressive, I do not want the entire country to be governed based on the needs of only people in NYC, LA and Chicago.

Why should it matter where people live?
 
Why should it matter where people live?
The United States is not monolithic and I think different regions/culture etc. should all have skin in the game.

If you weight it solely on popular vote, you de facto are giving large urban areas full control. I don't think that's what the Founders intended.
 
Five states are the most interesting to me. Pennsylvania, Georgia, North Carolina, Nevada, and Arizona It’s all going to be about turnout. Wouldn’t waste much time in Texas with the AG with his finger on the scale . Both sides seem eager to vote.
 
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I think I’d have picked Shapiro personally, but I think Walz checks off a lot of those same boxes as well.

Early returns would suggest thus far that picking Walz has been a net positive. Certainly much better than Vance has been for the Trump campaign.
FWIW, I happened to like Andy Beshear from Kentucky. And in the short time I was subjected to the convention, I did hear his speech and it made me like him more.
 
The United States is not monolithic and I think different regions/culture etc. should all have skin in the game.

If you weight it solely on popular vote, you de facto are giving large urban areas full control. I don't think that's what the Founders intended.

Again, this is only relevant if you believe your vote should count less if you live in a large, urban area. In what other universe do we think "one man one vote" is not a good idea? Why does it matter where a person lives?

EDIT:
We currently allow rural folks to dominate from the minority. Perhaps you can explain why that is good?
 
The United States is not monolithic and I think different regions/culture etc. should all have skin in the game.

If you weight it solely on popular vote, you de facto are giving large urban areas full control. I don't think that's what the Founders intended.

The counter to that is that it's only one co-equal branch of the government.
 
Again, this is only relevant if you believe your vote should count less if you live in a large, urban area. In what other universe do we think "one man one vote" is not a good idea? Why does it matter where a person lives?
Disagree. I believe the electoral college serves a purpose in protecting the minority. Could it be out of calibration? Sure. Work to get it back in calibration. Don't abolish it.
 
Maybe not abandoned, but tweaked.

Given how demographics in this country have changed, it should be more weighted.

I am OK with giving smaller population rural states SOME extra advantage - even as a progressive, I do not want the entire country to be governed based on the needs of only people in NYC, LA and Chicago.
It serves absolutely no purpose and disenfranchises huge chunks of the electorate. Today Republicans in California and Democrats in Tennessee and Missouri have zero reason to even vote in the general elections. It's a completely antiquated system that only continues to exist because the Republican party knows that they cannot get elected without it.
 
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