I notice that the projected starting lineups for the meet Sunday show that eight of OSU’s starters are from Oklahoma high schools while only two of Iowa’s starters are from Iowa high schools. I recall discussions a few years ago that Oklahoma high school wrestling had fallen somewhat. Has Iowa high school wrestling now fallen so much that it can no longer provide a solid base for sustaining a strong program at Iowa? I am a Waterloo native and moved out of Iowa 40 years ago. I also notice that there were no state champions from any of the Waterloo schools or Cedar Falls in contrast to times past when West and East Waterloo, along with occasional showings from Cedar Falls, dominated Iowa high school wrestling, and Columbus Waterloo also produced state champions. Is Iowa high school wrestling slipping compared to other states, and what issues does that present to U of Iowa wrestling success?
Iowa-OSU starters—eight Oklahomans, two Iowans
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I think the smaller half of weight classes are about as good as it's ever been in the state of Iowa. A ton of nationally ranked kids and others who have moved on to the next level.
The issue lies in the bigger weights, which coincidentally has also probably been one of Iowa's weaker points in recent years. There's just not a lot of really top-notch heavier weight recruits in the state right now.
In the state of Iowa there are also 3 top-20 teams competing for in-state recruits vs 2, while Oklahoma's population is about 780,000 more than Iowa's. Have you seen ISU and UNI's full rosters vs Iowa's? You bring up an interesting question but I don't think the answer is that simple.
The kids at the top in Iowa are as good as they have ever been through all classes.
The problem is there is no depth on teams like there used to be 15-20 years ago. I look at the NCC for example and think wtf has happened to Algona and Eagle Grove wrestling??
And that’s a common thread throughout the state where you have almost as many open weights in duals as contested matches
Disagreed with the Iowa kids are as good as ever, yes, a few are D-1 good but are they D-1 great? Even watching middle school Iowa wrestling we’ve taught these kids to be weak. No dual meets, no true weigh ins, just throw kids together and make them wrestle after school. I remember when kids were cutting weight, being tough and having a Friday night dual meet with JV beforehand! It’s a joke now. Loser mentality that affects this entire country.
Ok, ok, ok. My apologies. I was going to really lose my mind but I’ll stop there
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Ok, ok, ok. My apologies. I was going to really lose my mind but I’ll stop there
.
Yeah that's pretty amazing they have like 3 guys from Stillwater too.... Flo had an interview with mocco where he recognized like half the guys because they would be around the Okie state program when he was there as little kids .
Buuutttt... Iowa is damned if we do damned if we don't in that department.. if iowa had 8 Iowans starting, posters would be complaining that we need to recruit nationally more like cael... when iowa has a pretty good recruiting class from all over posters will complain not enough iowa guys.
Buuutttt... Iowa is damned if we do damned if we don't in that department.. if iowa had 8 Iowans starting, posters would be complaining that we need to recruit nationally more like cael... when iowa has a pretty good recruiting class from all over posters will complain not enough iowa guys.
I would be mad if Iowa had 8 starters from our state because I know we would be about to get smoked. Who could those 8 even be?
We had full squads for J.V. and Varsity in the mid to late 1970’s at the NCC school I attended. All of the other NCC schools did as well. We also had a full freshman squad who participated in as many duals & tournaments as the Varsity and J.V. Freshmen wrestled tournaments at Fort Dodge, Mason City and other larger schools. If you wrestled Varsity as a freshman in the NCC you were a stud. I like how the sport has grown but it’s sad to see the rural areas, as a whole, precipitously decline in participation numbers. Change is inevitable and growth is optional. Wrestling is headed in the right direction.
Best native Iowan
125: Schwarm UNI
133: Glynn Iowa
141: Happel Iowa
149: Thomsen UNI
157: Glosser Iowa
165: Stiert UNI
174: Bowman Iowa
184: Foster UNI
197: Miklus Iowa State
275: Isley UNI
Pretty salty team actually, but no real top tier ranked guys.
7 or 8 could be AA’s
Miklus with the highest potential
125: Schwarm UNI
133: Glynn Iowa
141: Happel Iowa
149: Thomsen UNI
157: Glosser Iowa
165: Stiert UNI
174: Bowman Iowa
184: Foster UNI
197: Miklus Iowa State
275: Isley UNI
Pretty salty team actually, but no real top tier ranked guys.
7 or 8 could be AA’s
Miklus with the highest potential
The hawks would throttle that team.
Lee pin
Desanto major
Murin dec
Flip, thomsen dec
Young dec
Bull Dec
Bowman push - kemdog healthy by major
Foster dec
Warner dec
Stoll dec
25-6 final.....stay out of Iowa and in Pennsylvania for recruiting.
Lee pin
Desanto major
Murin dec
Flip, thomsen dec
Young dec
Bull Dec
Bowman push - kemdog healthy by major
Foster dec
Warner dec
Stoll dec
25-6 final.....stay out of Iowa and in Pennsylvania for recruiting.
Didn't know if I should start another thread or not, but I just saw where Flo is calling the OSU - Iowa dual "the dual of the century". Can someone break it to the PSU and tOSU guys that their dual of the century only lasted one year before it got replaced.
There's also the fact that the Sooners have gone really down. So OSU
must be getting most of the good Okie HS kids. At least it would seem that is so.
I wrestled back in the 90s and been away from Iowa ever since. I attended my first state meet since those days and was also shocked to see all the traditional powerhouses almost fallen completely off the map. A few were mentioned in the original post i.e. Waterloo West, but what happened to all the Cedar Rapids programs as well? I was also surprised to see all the forfeits when casually checking duel meet results over the course of the year across the entire state. That being said the quality of wrestling, at least in the State finals, was as I good as I remember.
OSU does get the best in OK. Sooners have not had a decent program in years. That said, the OK state tourney is down to 6 man brackets. But, the top kids in this state are really good hence the Pokes rolling out 8 of them tomorrow.
Disagreed with the Iowa kids are as good as ever, yes, a few are D-1 good but are they D-1 great? Even watching middle school Iowa wrestling we’ve taught these kids to be weak. No dual meets, no true weigh ins, just throw kids together and make them wrestle after school. I remember when kids were cutting weight, being tough and having a Friday night dual meet with JV beforehand! It’s a joke now. Loser mentality that affects this entire country.
Ok, ok, ok. My apologies. I was going to really lose my mind but I’ll stop there
If it’s affected the whole country then Iowa should not have dropped relative to everyone else.
So no guys at schools outside Iowa would make the list? If you’re talking a dual with Iowa, could probably count Tanner Sloan at 197.
Possible AAs at 149, 165, 184, and 197. Would be shocked if anyone else got on the stand. The four listed aren’t locks.
I’ve seen lots of kids (youth) drop wrestling due to the season duration and practices. Most youth club folk seasons are longer the HS or MS seasons. Starting in Oct/Nov and ending Feb/March. Lets face it wrestling practices at youth level is far harder then any other sport.
A lot of these kids will have 30+ matches. The top tier can push 60+ matches easily. That’s not even figuring in Freco season.
That kind of season is great for the 1-5% of kids, not so much for the rest after a couple of years.
The ultimate goal of all wrestling clubs should be ever expanding numbers. Then seeing those numbers move into MS and HS ranks. Wrestling as a whole loses out when late starters and/or late bloomers don’t compete. Especially at the middle to upper weights.
A lot of these kids will have 30+ matches. The top tier can push 60+ matches easily. That’s not even figuring in Freco season.
That kind of season is great for the 1-5% of kids, not so much for the rest after a couple of years.
The ultimate goal of all wrestling clubs should be ever expanding numbers. Then seeing those numbers move into MS and HS ranks. Wrestling as a whole loses out when late starters and/or late bloomers don’t compete. Especially at the middle to upper weights.
This.
There is a lot of talk about parents getting hooked up from other schools.
No disrespect intended, but the head of the okie State RTC is daton’s dad if I’m not mistaken.
This state only has one school for kids to go to. Sooners get scraps at best. Iowa has three good programs. There is the diff. If you have no solid proof of your assumption then be silent. Smith is a quality guy. Ask Tom Brands.
Please dont then we'll have 50 new screen names and 100 more trolls trying to turn every thread into
PSU is disrespected thread.
I want the 10 best wrestlers we can put out there every year. If they are from Iowa great, if not so be it. Are you less excited to see Lee or the Bull win or dominate than Mitch?! I cheer on all things Hawkeye and don't think less of any athlete because he grew up in a different state.
Amen to that. Nice to see an Iowa kid excel. But at the level of competition d1 is at, a small state like Iowa is going to have a hard time getting enough elite home grown talent to win titles year after year.
Consider ...
CA ~ 40 million
NY, TX, FL all ~ 20-30 million
PA, OH, IL, GE, NC, MI, NJ all ~ 10-20 million
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IA ~3 million
Iowa has a great culture and history for wrestling, but is not a huge pond to go fishing in.
Yeah, I think Flo a couple years ago ranked states based on college wrestlers vs state population, and Iowa was right at the top of the list. But in absolute numbers it’s a small state, so it’s hard.
The point is, you REALLY need your nucleus to be homegrown if not for depth alone. Also, In state costs make for more manageable in state schollies. Being closer to home often helps mindsets as well. Plus, it is almost always easier to recruit the kid in your own backyard that grew up a fan.
The above is as much of a reason as any that PSU and even tOSU have jumped Iowa in recent years. Iowa has done a lot to compete for big names nationally in recent years. But, they have not been able to compete with the amount of local talent.
Just in the last 4 seasons:
TOSU-Stieber, Stieber, NATO, BoJo, Micah and Moore. Only 2 of those that most likely won’t be a 4x AA(assuming Moore doesn’t falter) is Hunter Stieber,and that was only due to major injury, and Micah who cut a ton as a freshman and ended up r12 that year. You can also add guys that won multiple matches at NCAAs in DiJulius, Demas and Mark Martin. This year is the least homegrown it has been by far with only Moore and Romero starting and I think that may coincide with why they are the most vulnerable they have been in the last 4 years.
PSU- admittedly their recruiting has been otherworldly, but they still owe much of their success to homegrown talent. Megaludis, Retherford, Nolf and Joseph are near locks for 4xAA’s with a ton of championships. On top of them, guys like Gulibon and Conaway were AA’s as well. Only 4 are starters this year, but Nolf and Joseph are huge factors. Admittedly Schnupp is basically a fill in and Verkleeren may just be spot starting, but homegrown is still a major factor.
For Iowa, development of local guys has been solid, but the talent pool was wayyyy leaner than the above mentioned teams. You basically had Clark and Sorensen. Both were great finishing as 4x AA’s. But, after that, you had to develop Alex Meyer and now, hopefully, Wilcke to AA. Before them you need to go back to 2012 to get the best versions of McD and St. John prior to senior year injuries. Even then they were it for local production. Over that time you had guys like Grothus, Kelly, Ballweg and now Bowman fighting for starting spots, but not contributing much. Finally, you had Nick Moore who just couldn’t put it together in March.
Now, Bowman and Wilcke are the only local starters and Bowman is only in due to Kemerer’s injury. Admittedly, Iowa has done its best under Brands landing Lee, Murin, Young, Marinelli, Kemerer, Warner, Stoll and Cass. On top of that you have DeSanto and Lugo transfer in. But, that type of out of state influx is nearly impossible to sustain. The amount of work it takes to land out of state guys is crazy and you will almost always be fighting the other big name schools for these guys. You NEED the local guys that are damn near locks to take some of the recruiting pressure off.
I know this was long but it is a MAJOR factor on why Iowa has had a hard time keeping up with PSU and, more recently, tOSU.....
The above is as much of a reason as any that PSU and even tOSU have jumped Iowa in recent years. Iowa has done a lot to compete for big names nationally in recent years. But, they have not been able to compete with the amount of local talent.
Just in the last 4 seasons:
TOSU-Stieber, Stieber, NATO, BoJo, Micah and Moore. Only 2 of those that most likely won’t be a 4x AA(assuming Moore doesn’t falter) is Hunter Stieber,and that was only due to major injury, and Micah who cut a ton as a freshman and ended up r12 that year. You can also add guys that won multiple matches at NCAAs in DiJulius, Demas and Mark Martin. This year is the least homegrown it has been by far with only Moore and Romero starting and I think that may coincide with why they are the most vulnerable they have been in the last 4 years.
PSU- admittedly their recruiting has been otherworldly, but they still owe much of their success to homegrown talent. Megaludis, Retherford, Nolf and Joseph are near locks for 4xAA’s with a ton of championships. On top of them, guys like Gulibon and Conaway were AA’s as well. Only 4 are starters this year, but Nolf and Joseph are huge factors. Admittedly Schnupp is basically a fill in and Verkleeren may just be spot starting, but homegrown is still a major factor.
For Iowa, development of local guys has been solid, but the talent pool was wayyyy leaner than the above mentioned teams. You basically had Clark and Sorensen. Both were great finishing as 4x AA’s. But, after that, you had to develop Alex Meyer and now, hopefully, Wilcke to AA. Before them you need to go back to 2012 to get the best versions of McD and St. John prior to senior year injuries. Even then they were it for local production. Over that time you had guys like Grothus, Kelly, Ballweg and now Bowman fighting for starting spots, but not contributing much. Finally, you had Nick Moore who just couldn’t put it together in March.
Now, Bowman and Wilcke are the only local starters and Bowman is only in due to Kemerer’s injury. Admittedly, Iowa has done its best under Brands landing Lee, Murin, Young, Marinelli, Kemerer, Warner, Stoll and Cass. On top of that you have DeSanto and Lugo transfer in. But, that type of out of state influx is nearly impossible to sustain. The amount of work it takes to land out of state guys is crazy and you will almost always be fighting the other big name schools for these guys. You NEED the local guys that are damn near locks to take some of the recruiting pressure off.
I know this was long but it is a MAJOR factor on why Iowa has had a hard time keeping up with PSU and, more recently, tOSU.....
Thank you for a very cogent and thorough response to my original question. Your response makes it clear that local talent is key to sustained team wrestling success, and Iowa, despite a long history of being a wrestling hotbed, is apparently currently not producing enough big-time talent at the state high school level to keep up with the states of Ohio, Pennsylvania and Oklahoma, and the OSU’s, TOSU, and the PSU’s located in these apparent hotter beds of wrestling. Ironic isn’t that Iowa is viewed as a wrestling state, but has only two homegrown starters (neither of which have shown top-level talent) yet, while not viewed as a basketball hotbed, Iowa starts two Iowa high school products, who are both key to the team, and has five Iowans in its nine-man rotation on a team that is 21-6 and, at least so far, has had a pretty successful season.
