Against ranked teams on their home floor? Without researching for context I think mind boggling is a bit of a strong characterization. At any rate as LC said, before Tim and Larry any road win was practically a fantasy for the Cyclones.
Iowa State-Cincinnati in a battle
- Thread starter EvilMonkeyInTheCloset
- Start date
Yeah, that's an obvious exception. But overall, I stand by my post. I am not a Cyclone fan, but I respect their team's ability to dig deep and "find a way". I loved the UAB loss, and I love hearing that one of Freddy's transfers was responsible for fracturing the team and (allegedly) fighting with coaches that game.
But it doesn't change the fact that ISU has done a much better job than Iowa of holding leads, coming back to win late, etc. I wish my Hawks could do that as we'd probably be 10 wins better in the last couple of years!
And that was before the three-point shot.
However.....I will point out that under the rules at the time, a team could -- and frequently did -- let the air out of the ball for protracted periods. There was a game when Magic Johnson was at MSU when Lute stalled the entire first half. IIRC neither team was in double figures at halftime.
Also in those days, if the lead reached 10, the game was OVER.
ISU has had some very tough-minded players during that stretch....Kane, Ejim, Niang...and it rubs off on everybody. I've said before, that in this sense the Iowa and Iowa State teams in football and basketball kinda reflect each other. One team expects to win and somehow finds ways to do it; the other expects bad things to happen and it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Yes that is my characterization..... if it were Iowa I would also think it's mind boggling.
12 wins in more than 100 years of basketball in that scenario is mind boggling to me. Seems hard to believe that even during the Tim, Larry and subsequent Fred years that ISU could have added more than a few road wins vs. some of those borderline top 25 ranked teams. I'm sure you will take this as a dig at ISU and get defensive. But I would feel the same about any power 5 conference school upon learning that they win on average one game PER DECADE vs. ranked teams on the road.
Does anyone know what Iowa's record is vs ranked road teams? I'm assuming it's much better. I know ISU has 4 of them in the last 2 1/2 years (1 this year, 2 last year, 1 the season before). I remember McDermott getting one somehow against a top 5 K State team with Brackins fouled out.
Playing 7 isn't a big deal. There are a lot of good teams that stay with 7-8 guys. The biggest risk is if someone else gets injured. These kids are in fantastic shape and should be able to play 35 minutes a game.
That was a big win for ISU last night. Top 25 team on the road after the bad loss to UNI. They almost let the game slip away. After watching the game, I think Burton can be big addition to the team as long as he continues to work on the defensive end. He seemed lost a lot on defense. But man that kid is a beast. I am interested to see how they play at OU in their first Big 12 game because OU is playing as well as any team in the country right now.
That was a big win for ISU last night. Top 25 team on the road after the bad loss to UNI. They almost let the game slip away. After watching the game, I think Burton can be big addition to the team as long as he continues to work on the defensive end. He seemed lost a lot on defense. But man that kid is a beast. I am interested to see how they play at OU in their first Big 12 game because OU is playing as well as any team in the country right now.
Not defensive at all. The fact has no bearing on my personal life satisfaction at all. Winning on the road in college basketball is very difficult. Can you think of a lot of road games over ranked opponents that Iowa has won recently? I know they've picked off Ohio St. a couple of times.
The once in a decade figure is extremely skewed for a lot of reasons. Again I'd have to have a lot more context to give the stat any characterization.
I will give you a fact that is mind boggling. Northwestern has NEVER played in an NCAA tournament. I'm amazed every time I'm reminded of that one.
We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
Iowa won 66% of its games last year that were decided by 4 points or fewer. ISU won 62% (yes, I looked this up). This 'find a way' cuz they're so tough myth is exactly that, a myth.
Once again, I'm not sure why comparing the stat to Iowa has any bearing. I am not making an argument of Iowa vs. Iowa State. Nor am I asserting that it's something easy to do. Rather I only commented how surprised (mind boggled if you will) I was to hear that stat about Iowa State. If someone comes up with a stat about how Iowa is just as bad I will be equally as mind boggled.
I don't think that's true. They won two games by 4 pts or fewer (@ Penn State and @ Minnesota)
I wasn't going to look it up, but I did and you are incorrect.
L against Syracuse by 3
W @ Minnesota by 2
L @ Purdue by 4
W @ Penn State by 4
So it is 50%. For 2014-2015 anyway, but the point I'm making can go for 2-3 years' time in my opinion and I don't even care what the stats are. You either watch both teams play or (more likely) you don't. Iowa State does indeed find a way, and all too often the Hawks have not.
Yes, absolutely, Iowa State is a legit top 15 team right now. I still think their depth is a concern, though, come conference play. Winning a tough road contest vs. Cincinnati was huge, however, considering how Iowa State has struggled on the road in the past.
What I like about Iowa State in terms of being a contender is their plethora of experience, especially with Niang and Morris. Not a lot of college basketball teams today can boast about having very talented upperclassmen. Naz Long being out did temper my enthusiasm for the Clones, however, but after watching Burton come in and play last night I think he is as good as advertised if not better.
It's really going to come down to how well the team holds up during conference play and having a little bit of luck to make a deep run in March (every team needs a little bit of it to go far come tournament time).
Well that's just way too much work. I'm pretty free today and I'm definitely not taking that one on. Haha! Have a good one Navy.
I stand corrected on that - it is 50%.
You should care about some kind of stat - otherwise you're falling into the much aligned 'eye test' camp which is completely subjective and distills down to "I think they're tough, so they are tough" vs "i don't think they're tough so they're not tough' which is kind of where we are at this point.
At any rate, I stand corrected...Iowa won half it's games last year that were decided by 4 points or less.
I really got sick of the stupid four corners which is why I was one of those not too unhappy when Lute left. Donald Kaul once wrote that he always hoped Iowa would NOT get the opening tip because Lute would probably hold it for the last shot.
I hate to admit this as much as any Hawk fan, but this ISU team does not play scared at the end of games. They play like they expect to win. That comes from good guard play and a calm bench.
Given that... they always seem to find a clunker of a game and lose against some team they should absolutely crush.
Given that... they always seem to find a clunker of a game and lose against some team they should absolutely crush.
I don't give a s$$t about last year or any other previous year's stats. They are good to hold on to for memories but have no bearing on this years team. In my opinion last years Iowa team was tough because White took it upon himself to will the team to win. Not sure yet if one of this years seniors can do that.
I'm not sure Cinci is actually any good. They've lost all 3 games against ranked opponents this year, and they themselves aren't likely to be ranked next week so I wouldn't put too much stock into this game.
ISU is a legit top 15 team at home. On the road or at a neutral site, I'm not sure they're even top 25. They'll have another good year, finish behind KU and OU in the conference but they're not as good as they were last year. Sweet 16 is their best case scenario but I could see them folding before that like last year, they're not going to have legs by the end of the year either only playing 6-7 guys. Seeing as how this was their last year to have any post season success and they're going to take a step back in the years to come I think ISU fans are going to be extremely disappointed. They're just not a top 15 team.
They just beat a top 25 team on the road and they're 3-1 on neutral courts this year. KenPom has Cincinnati #22 in the country even after the game last night. ISU also played an 11-1 Colorado team on a neutral and Cincinnati is easily the best team ISU has faced this year.
I'd love for you to list 15 teams better than ISU right now.
I would agree that it's crazy that in school history, 1/3rd of ISU's road wins vs. ranked opponents have occurred in the last three years. 132 chances.... 12 wins.
I'm sure there's no bias involved there at all. Haha. As long as this team stays healthy they are most certainly top 15. Niang is probably the most unique player in the country. Morris is a top 5 point guard. McKay is an elite basket protector. The team is far from perfect but they are going to be extremely hard to beat for almost anyone.
All that said I'm prepared to be disappointed. Any rational sports fan should be. In all reality most teams seasons are ended with disappointment.
The more I think about it, the more boggled my mind gets, as well. I think I can remember a dozen road wins against ranked teams. But in reviewing the record, I find that most of the ones I recall were in tournaments, not on foreign courts....until fairly recently.
The record book doesn't indicate ratings until the 1948 season, so we aren't talking about 100 years, but 67.
From then until Johnny Orr arrived in '80, ISU had 3 wins at ranked teams. Johnny had 2. Floyd had none. Eustachy had 2. Morgan had 2.
My copy of the record book is an old one that doesn't include McDermott or Fred. I know Mac had at least one -- at Kansas State -- and Prohm had one last night, so that would make a total of at least 11 not counting Fred. Is it possible Fred only had 1 road victory over a ranked team? Seems hard to believe. But whether 12 is the right number or not, it's close enough that it doesn't make any difference.
My mind wouldn't boggle until I saw that an average of 1 every 5 seasons is much worse than other P5 teams. But you also have to realize that ISU has only 2 league titles and 4 tournament titles in that time, so the "P" doesn't stand for "Powerhouse."
Because we blow big leads after we stop playing and instead do everything we can to let the other team win?....
So your snide comment is directed at last year as opposed to prior years. Is that correct or is your memory Just that short term?
