Penn State has three wrestlers that have been called freshman for 3 years. Then next year they'll be called redshirt freshman. Fours years to wait for your weight to clear out. Joe Lee, Aaron Brooks and Seth Nevills are the three. It just doesn't seem fair, they'll be in college for 7 or 8 year's. If they couldn't sit like this, they would probably have gone to other college's. I don't know, just doesn't seem right. Was just wondering what you experts think?
Is it called grey shirting out of highschool?
- Thread starter 1975hawkfan
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Not an expert but the same opportunity is available to other schools. We do have a guy that was is on that plan (Stickley). He came to Iowa after graduation to work so he could get cheaper tuition...wrestled his frosh year and redshirted this year. Perhaps the only difference between him and the Lee's for instance, is that Joe and Nick left school to move to PA their respective senior years of h.s. Getting guys to wait multiple years to hit the lineup is interesting. Joe will be in the lineup as a RS Freshman when his bro is a senior.
BTW...Brooks spent a year out in Colorado and then made his move to PSU this summer. He is considered a true freshman I believe.
All 3 are true freshmen, and all 3 are currently redshirting. This is their first year on the roster, after delaying enrollment 1 year following HS. None has been called a freshman for 3 years, as each has been in college for only 1 semester.
Technically there’s some truth to the 3-year comment: grey shirt, red shirt, freshman equals three years.
If what was getting thrown around about being able to pay guys from your club while you were grey shirting until you enroll is true I think it is pretty f’d up. I mean if that is the case I just can’t see how anyone would not see the holes in that rule.
Well yes but it’s just the one “extra” year and you don’t call them freshmen every year and it doesn’t pertain to those guys...could go on. Huge fail.
Huge fail...you’re cracking me up.
I was thinking the same thing earlier today. Yeah, you can do. However it feels like gaming the system to win. It’s kinda sad. Just roll.
“Thrown around” where? Please give an example? No amateur wrestler gets paid while a member of of the NLWC. That’s just something that gets thrown out there again and again on this board, but nobody has stepped up and told where they heard it. It always comes from a relative of a friend who has unconfirmed knowledge.
Greyshirting happens all the time in college football. Every year, Many power5 schools have 2-5 more commits than they have scholarships to offer. Recruits will sit a semester or a year until money opens up.
Willie on one of his first Rokfin Podcasts basically laid all this out saying he was told by a college coach this is going on at some RTCs. That some compliance offices interpret the rules as such that you can pay a kid for his training from when he graduates to when he enrolls. I can hardly believe this is true. All I said was that if it is it is f’ing crazy.
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They didn’t say paying, but Cornell fans on themat seemed to imply that the grayshirts at least got subsidized and possibly free rent in an alumnI-owned house. But then they later claimed that they “don’t spend time with the Cornell staff” even though Grey is the head freestyle coach at the RTC, so who knows.
The NCAA allows for one year of deferred enrollment. There are exceptions to this but outside of military service and religious missions, your clock starts when you start classes or you are one year post high school graduation. No one will be a freshman for 4 years. All three will finish their college careers within 6 years of high school graduation barring injury. As others have mentioned, Brooks spent his year training at the OTC in Colorado Springs and I believe the other two were in PA which would have enabled them to become in-state students. More power to them.
I'm far more concerned with the current trend of holding back 7th and 8th graders solely for athletic purposes.
"Where was the 4 years as a freshman mentioned? Good they will be done, lots of people go to school for 6 years.......
What happens if they get a medical during those 6 years? ‘An injury’ when they are behind a NC or don’t project to make the lineup?"
Q1- Read the OP- "Penn State has three wrestlers that have been called freshman for 3 years. Then next year they'll be called redshirt freshman"
3+1=4. The statement is false. Additionally, they are not in school for 6 years. If Brooks competes the next 4 years he would have been in school for 4 years the other two will be 5 just like everyone else.
Q2- Are you asking a question or making an unfounded accusation? This made up injury thing is really becoming ridiculous but taking a gap year does impact application of NCAA rules.
What happens if they get a medical during those 6 years? ‘An injury’ when they are behind a NC or don’t project to make the lineup?"
Q1- Read the OP- "Penn State has three wrestlers that have been called freshman for 3 years. Then next year they'll be called redshirt freshman"
3+1=4. The statement is false. Additionally, they are not in school for 6 years. If Brooks competes the next 4 years he would have been in school for 4 years the other two will be 5 just like everyone else.
Q2- Are you asking a question or making an unfounded accusation? This made up injury thing is really becoming ridiculous but taking a gap year does impact application of NCAA rules.
Got me thinking about the last Mormon mission for Iowa. I recall Aaron Bradley not joining the team. This would have been his senior year. Interesting how things turn out.
https://iawrestle.com/2016/09/15/aaron-bradley-no-longer-planning-to-join-iowa-wrestling-program/
I found this thread. I was going through a "#" phase when the only likes I could get were from @WWDMHawkeye
https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/aaron-bradley-wrestled-last-weekend.95308/
https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/aaron-bradley-wrestled-last-weekend.95308/
Thank you for the clarification. I will work on my comprehension skills. As far as injuries go we have seen the NCAA become far more liberal in how they address things.,
People keep mentioning Aaron Brooks but he is wrestling officially for PSU this year and if that continues he'll be done in five years. His trajectory right now is very similar to what Burak did for Iowa - year at the OTC then hit the lineup after some consideration about redshirting. Illinois has a guy (DJ Shannon) redshirting after spending a year at the OTC, so he'll likely have a six year career.
Regarding Brooks: 4 years, unless he decides to redshirt a year. This is the first year of his collegiate career.
I does seem that way, however, the way the NCAA evaluates medical hardships has not changed at all. What changed was the rules regarding exceptions to the 5 yr rule. Athletes who red-shirted were not getting the same opportunity as those who did not due to this rule. The prior 5 yr exception rule required missing more than one season of competition (note a red-shirt year is NOT considered a competition year). If you competed as a true FR and got hurt in your SO year, only the rules regarding medical hardship applied because you can get a year back and still compete 4 of 5 yrs. In the same scenario with an Athlete that red-shirted, getting a year back violated the 5 yr rule so the 5 yr exception rule then came into play. Under the old rule, you had to basically lose 2 to get back 1. The change in the 5 yr exception rule simply gave red-shirted athletes the same opportunity as non red shirted athletes.
But he spent a year at the OTC, when I say "5 years" I meant since graduating high school.
I don't understand why you are lumping the OTC year in with the college year(s). The two are independent as far as any clock or eligibility are concerned. Freestyle career and collegiate career are separate things, and Brooks's collegiate career is only one semester old.
They’re not independent of actual clocks.
OP certainly had some inaccuracies in his post but the point seems to be more about the amount of time some of these guys are waiting to try to crack the lineup. Mason Manville is probably the craziest example so far as he’ll have grayshirted, redshirted and Olympic redshirted after this year (with 1 year of competing in there).
If the point is to gripe about guys "waiting to crack the lineup", and inaccuracies in the thesis are unimportant, then I guess you just get a big eye-roll from me.
In the meantime, guys will take advantage of opportunities to pursue non-folkstyle interests and be quite all right with the process. A noble effort by others to be so concerned about their welfare, though.
I think the ORS is really the only one where guys pursue "non-folkstyle interests." I'm sure grayshirts spend plenty of time wrestling folkstyle, since they may not even be taking any classes (and if they are it's likely at a community college)
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Let's assume all of your information was correct, which by now, everyone knows it's not. IF it was, though, can you explain what is unfair about it?
Perhaps ‘goes against the intent and spirit of the guidelines’ see Belichick, Bill or Patriots under investigation... again.
Better?
late to the party here, but doesn't your eligibility clock start 1 year post high school. so essentially one could be NCAA wrestling training for 7 years - grayshirt or otc 1st year of post high school, take Olympic shirt, take redshirt, then 4 years of varsity competing.
Manville did not greyshirt. He is also a Greco first kid. His main focus is Greco, not folk.
Good catch. Was redshirting until a month ago, and would have been considered a true freshman right now, regardless.
It's strange that you mentioned that trend, HawkeyeMass, as that is seeming to be more and more the case down here in the greater Nashville area. I have a friend who held his son back 2 years for athletic purposes. He loves bragging about it, and because he's a friend I put up with it, but as he's bragging, I'm wondering why he thinks it's so impressive for a 15-year old 7th grader to be physically bigger, stronger and faster than the 13-year old 7th graders. He's hoping this will all lead to a D1 football scholarship...
I thought he did a year at the OTC out of HS before heading to PSU ie a greyshirt year.
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