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Is there a worse coache in the league?

R

RocknRollface

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Dec 21, 2011
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Recruiting area taken into consideration?

Is there anyone you wouldn't trade Fran for?

I wouldn't want Hoiberg or Pitino I don't consider them much better than Fran.

Maybe Pikle and Turgeon? PSU only has an interem.

Other than that, Frans way out of his league going against Holtman, Howard, Underwood, Painter, Izzo, Gaurd, even Miller and Collins are better IMO.

Frans teams consistently play bad defense and clearly theres enough sample size to say it a problem that originates with him.

Im now confident Iowa will never accomplish anything of significance with Fran as the coach. And thats depressing.
 
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Hoiberg had more success at ISU during same time frame as Fran at Iowa and took Niang and Montgomery from out of state while Fran whiffed on Niang and didn't bother to recruit Montgomery. Both those guys are in NBA.
Hoiberg took the shooter out of wisconsin and that guy is in NBA....Fran took guys like Ogelsby, Flemming, and Ellingson and they were all busts.

Hoiberg might not stress defense, but he does stress athleticism and has shown ability in past to push the envelop to get in good transfers/recruits. I would not be surprised to see Hoiberg have a better B1G record next year than Iowa.

I would take Pickiel of Rutgers, Painter of Purdue...Hoiberg would never go to Iowa over ISU. A guy like Turgeon is not a good coach but he is good recruiter at a school like Maryland...he wouldn't be able to recruit very well to Iowa.

Not likely to happen, but I would like to see Fran embrace defense and show less overt favoritism to his two
boys playing time. Fran not playing others over his two boys will lead to transfers/unease in the team.
 
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HawkLogic said:
Hoiberg had more success at ISU during same time frame as Fran at Iowa and took Niang and Montgomery from out of state while Fran whiffed on Niang and didn't bother to recruit Montgomery. Both those guys are in NBA.
Hoiberg took the shooter out of wisconsin and that guy is in NBA....Fran took guys like Ogelsby, Flemming, and Ellingson and they were all busts.

Hoiberg might not stress defense, but he does stress athleticism and has shown ability in past to push the envelop to get in good transfers/recruits. I would not be surprised to see Hoiberg have a better B1G record next year than Iowa.

I would take Pickiel of Rutgers, Painter of Purdue...Hoiberg would never go to Iowa over ISU. A guy like Turgeon is not a good coach but he is good recruiter at a school like Maryland...he wouldn't be able to recruit very well to Iowa.

Not likely to happen, but I would like to see Fran embrace defense and show less overt favoritism to his two
boys playing time. Fran not playing others over his two boys will lead to transfers/unease in the team.
Click to expand...

Hoiberg was a better coach no doubt but I don't think he's into it anymore.

Painter goes without saying. Frans not on his level.

I'd probably take Pickiel over Fran, Turgeon is the one guy I feel like is probably as bad as Fran, he's just at a much better place to recruit athletes.

Overall Fran is in the bottom 2 or 3 of all big ten coaches.

We need to go find our Holtman or Underwood.

Tough guys that come from mid majors but recruit athletes and stress defense.

I'd give Ben Jacobson a shot no question if it meant being rid of Fran.
 
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I didnt read it all but Prohm took a top team to maybe the worst in the P5. And their fans spend all day ripping Iowa who is a ranked team. Be careful what you wish for. I don’t like Fran but we could have Prohm. So there is that.
 
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RocknRollface said:
Recruiting area taken into consideration?

Is there anyone you wouldn't trade Fran for?

I wouldn't want Hoiberg or Pitino I don't consider them much better than Fran.

Maybe Pikle and Turgeon? PSU only has an interem.

Other than that, Frans way out of his league going against Holtman, Howard, Underwood, Painter, Izzo, Gaurd, even Miller and Collins are better IMO.

Frans teams consistently play bad defense and clearly theres enough sample size to say it a problem that originates with him.

Im now confident Iowa will never accomplish anything of significance with Fran as the coach. And thats depressing.
Click to expand...

STFU
 
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Here is the problem on coaches and money. For example, ISU needs to sell the farm for Matt. Even though he is gone after next year when his talent is gone. There is no question Prohm has driven the program way deep into the ground. But what do they do? Don’t have the buy-out money let alone bringing in a new coach. Pollard cares about 4 things. First, poking Iowa. Second, football (cause of money). Third, cross country and track. Fourth, basketball and wrestling. Look at the coaches they lost in point 4 and what they have. I am guessing Fred and Cael would be doing a tad better.
 
jamesvanderwulf said:
If Nunge doesn't throw a rebound into P Mac's backside instead of handing it to a guard standing right next to him, or Keegan gets the ball to a guard instead of trying to dribble after a front court steal, or Luka passes a little better out of the double team, or any number of players block out better...
Click to expand...

Basically if the players were coached better.

Nunge has been throwing away outlets passes all year.
 
Ben Jacobson or Greg Mcdermott deserve a look, imo. Creighton is probably a better job though at this point.
 
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Raptorpeeps said:
Turgeon has a .568 B1G record and has won a B1G regular season title.

Fran? Below .500 in B1G and has never come close to winning a title.
Click to expand...

Valid point, I still feel like he's underachieved relative to where that program was under Williams, its history and the geographic area he has to work with.
 
HawkLogic said:
Hoiberg had more success at ISU during same time frame as Fran at Iowa and took Niang and Montgomery from out of state while Fran whiffed on Niang and didn't bother to recruit Montgomery. Both those guys are in NBA.
Hoiberg took the shooter out of wisconsin and that guy is in NBA....Fran took guys like Ogelsby, Flemming, and Ellingson and they were all busts.

Hoiberg might not stress defense, but he does stress athleticism and has shown ability in past to push the envelop to get in good transfers/recruits. I would not be surprised to see Hoiberg have a better B1G record next year than Iowa.

I would take Pickiel of Rutgers, Painter of Purdue...Hoiberg would never go to Iowa over ISU. A guy like Turgeon is not a good coach but he is good recruiter at a school like Maryland...he wouldn't be able to recruit very well to Iowa.

Not likely to happen, but I would like to see Fran embrace defense and show less overt favoritism to his two
boys playing time. Fran not playing others over his two boys will lead to transfers/unease in the team.
Click to expand...

Montgomery?
 
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Fran is unequivocally the worst in-game coach in the league, and I'm not sure its even close. We've let so many double-digit leads just evaporate before our eyes without making any meaningful adjustments until it's too late, and I've never seen a coach just sit back and let it happen as much as Fran does. It's like a clinic in the mismanagement of available coaching tools to address in-game momentum swings, and it goes right back to the whole "definition of insanity" thing with Fran. It's either that or he's just too stubborn/ stupid to make the necessary adjustments; either way, it is completely unacceptable.
 
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I dislike taking another flyer on a mid-major coach. Iowa's wound up with Alford, Lickliter, and Fran in the 2000s. I don't know what the other options are, but I can't take another Alford or Lickliter. Fran sucks, but he's been better than Lickliter and marginally better than Alford with less sleaziness. I don't know what the answer is, but I don't trust the AD to make a good hire at this point.
 
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RocknRollface said:
Hoiberg was a better coach no doubt but I don't think he's into it anymore.

Painter goes without saying. Frans not on his level.

I'd probably take Pickiel over Fran, Turgeon is the one guy I feel like is probably as bad as Fran, he's just at a much better place to recruit athletes.

Overall Fran is in the bottom 2 or 3 of all big ten coaches.

We need to go find our Holtman or Underwood.

Tough guys that come from mid majors but recruit athletes and stress defense.

I'd give Ben Jacobson a shot no question if it meant being rid of Fran.
Click to expand...
Maybe 10 years ago
 
HawkLogic said:
Hoiberg had more success at ISU during same time frame as Fran at Iowa and took Niang and Montgomery from out of state while Fran whiffed on Niang and didn't bother to recruit Montgomery. Both those guys are in NBA.
Hoiberg took the shooter out of wisconsin and that guy is in NBA....Fran took guys like Ogelsby, Flemming, and Ellingson and they were all busts.

Hoiberg might not stress defense, but he does stress athleticism and has shown ability in past to push the envelop to get in good transfers/recruits. I would not be surprised to see Hoiberg have a better B1G record next year than Iowa.

I would take Pickiel of Rutgers, Painter of Purdue...Hoiberg would never go to Iowa over ISU. A guy like Turgeon is not a good coach but he is good recruiter at a school like Maryland...he wouldn't be able to recruit very well to Iowa.

Not likely to happen, but I would like to see Fran embrace defense and show less overt favoritism to his two
boys playing time. Fran not playing others over his two boys will lead to transfers/unease in the team.
Click to expand...
you honestly think Hoiberg will have a better record than Fran next year? GTFO.
 
HawkLogic said:
Hoiberg had more success at ISU during same time frame as Fran at Iowa and took Niang and Montgomery from out of state while Fran whiffed on Niang and didn't bother to recruit Montgomery. Both those guys are in NBA.
Hoiberg took the shooter out of wisconsin and that guy is in NBA....Fran took guys like Ogelsby, Flemming, and Ellingson and they were all busts.

Hoiberg might not stress defense, but he does stress athleticism and has shown ability in past to push the envelop to get in good transfers/recruits. I would not be surprised to see Hoiberg have a better B1G record next year than Iowa.

I would take Pickiel of Rutgers, Painter of Purdue...Hoiberg would never go to Iowa over ISU. A guy like Turgeon is not a good coach but he is good recruiter at a school like Maryland...he wouldn't be able to recruit very well to Iowa.

Not likely to happen, but I would like to see Fran embrace defense and show less overt favoritism to his two
boys playing time. Fran not playing others over his two boys will lead to transfers/unease in the team.
Click to expand...
I would take Devries from Drake! This team will never get to the Sweet 16. Sad
 
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Raptorpeeps said:
Turgeon has a .568 B1G record and has won a B1G regular season title.

Fran? Below .500 in B1G and has never come close to winning a title.

Frank Garza probably not a big fan right now...
Click to expand...


Some fans feel that Fran had a role in Garza's development. I think Fran's offense features a Big man if he can score, so that has helped put Luka's talents on display. I have not seen much evidence of Fran's personal coaching contributing to Big Man development (example Nunge, Woodbury not being able to make layups).

From my view, Frank Garza's development plan for Luka has been outstanding and Luka himself has the skills and work ethic that has made it come true. So I have a lot of respect for what Frank Garza has done and wonder why Jack Nunge did not tag along.

Iowa has a guy that is averaging 26pt/gam shooting close to 60%....and yet they are trending to middle of the pack in B1G.

What more can Luka do? He came back to win championships, and the team has upgraded the bench tremendously. At some point it is on Fran. So yeah, if I were Frank Garza, I'd not be happy with how
Fran has coached this team. I see an obvious double standard in doling out playing time from Fran
for his two boys and to upperclassmen.
 
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I think it’s appropriate to remember to be careful what you wish for as someone mentioned. Iowa is not an easy place to win for obvious reasons. Having said that, there has been a handful of coaches that did very well, albeit quite awhile, ago.
I can’t remember exactly when this podcast aired, but I was actually pretty surprised that I saw little to nothing on here about it. (unless I totally missed it which is possible). But, not that long ago BJ Armstrong was asked about the possibility of coaching/etc. If I remember correctly he kinda downplayed the subject, guessing due to respect for Fran/etc, but said that Iowa was the one place he couldn’t see himself saying no to. Now, he’s never coached, but I thought it was at least pretty interesting.
I like Fran, it seems his players like him, and I certainly don’t wish ill towards anyone, but he’s been here 10+ years and I wonder if he’s gonna be able to do much better than he has. Whether BJ would do better is unknowable, but, again, an interesting idea.
 
If you’re in it for the paycheck, Iowa is one of the sweetest gigs in the country.

You can draw a multimillion salary for over a freaking decade while winning absolutely nothing. Ever. Kids get a degree for free.... sweet, sweet deal!

Wharton paid off.
 
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HawkLogic said:
Some fans feel that Fran had a role in Garza's development. I think Fran's offense features a Big man if he can score, so that has helped put Luka's talents on display. I have not seen much evidence of Fran's personal coaching contributing to Big Man development (example Nunge, Woodbury not being able to make layups).

From my view, Frank Garza's development plan for Luka has been outstanding and Luka himself has the skills and work ethic that has made it come true. So I have a lot of respect for what Frank Garza has done and wonder why Jack Nunge did not tag along.

Iowa has a guy that is averaging 26pt/gam shooting close to 60%....and yet they are trending to middle of the pack in B1G.

What more can Luka do? He came back to win championships, and the team has upgraded the bench tremendously. At some point it is on Fran. So yeah, if I were Frank Garza, I'd not be happy with how
Fran has coached this team. I see an obvious double standard in doling out playing time from Fran
for his two boys and to upperclassmen.
Click to expand...

We'll, in fairness, Luka has not dominated the past 5 games like he was early in the year, but that's because teams have figured out how to play everybody else (and have the athletes to pull it off). I do wonder how the past 5 games play out if CJ had been healthy and played. Iowa was overrated to start the year and the players ran their mouths about how great they were, how they were going to win the B10 and NCAAs before they played anybody any good. Their best win is Purdue. They haven't beaten anyone in the Top 20 of the country and have lost whenever they had the chance. I feel badly for Garza, but he gave some of his teammates more credit than they deserve.
 
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Eternal Return said:
I dislike taking another flyer on a mid-major coach. Iowa's wound up with Alford, Lickliter, and Fran in the 2000s. I don't know what the other options are, but I can't take another Alford or Lickliter. Fran sucks, but he's been better than Lickliter and marginally better than Alford with less sleaziness. I don't know what the answer is, but I don't trust the AD to make a good hire at this point.
Click to expand...

You wouldn't roll the dice on Devries?
 
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Devries yes. UNI has not been great the last couple of years. I would pass on Jacobson. I don’t think McDermont would leave Creighton
 
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Eternal Return said:
I dislike taking another flyer on a mid-major coach. Iowa's wound up with Alford, Lickliter, and Fran in the 2000s. I don't know what the other options are, but I can't take another Alford or Lickliter. Fran sucks, but he's been better than Lickliter and marginally better than Alford with less sleaziness. I don't know what the answer is, but I don't trust the AD to make a good hire at this point.
Click to expand...
I agree with the sleaziness, but Alford won 2 BTT titles (and took another team to the championship game) and Fran has yet to take a team to a weekend game in the BTT. I give Alford the slight nod over Fran with respect to competitive success.
 
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Pilsner said:
I agree with the sleaziness, but Alford won 2 BTT titles (and took another team to the championship game) and Fran has yet to take a team to a weekend game in the BTT. I give Alford the slight nod over Fran with respect to competitive success.
Click to expand...

That's true. But weren't those B10 titles because of tournament runs? I don't recall them winning a regular season B10 championship. But, yeah, at least he did that twice. I have to nitpick and point out that the league back then was not as strong as the league has been the last few years. The B10 used to get thrashed in the ACC challenge every year and now the B10 is even-to-better. But even if I give Alford the slight nod, it's almost all been a disappointment for the past 20 years.
 
jamesvanderwulf said:
If Nunge doesn't throw a rebound into P Mac's backside instead of handing it to a guard standing right next to him, or Keegan gets the ball to a guard instead of trying to dribble after a front court steal, or Luka passes a little better out of the double team, or any number of players block out better...
Click to expand...
I remember this play. I rewound it and looked again. I am pretty sure there were NO guards on that end of the court. PMac was running down court and near Nunge was Murray, I think. Also, what the heck is Fran doing with perkins playing PG for quite a while. I don't think he was even a PG in high school.
 
Fran sucks. The league adjusts, a d he shuts the bed. He’s had this job way too long. Iowa basketball is mediocre until he’s gone.
 
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twindman said:
I remember this play. I rewound it and looked again. I am pretty sure there were NO guards on that end of the court. PMac was running down court and near Nunge was Murray, I think. Also, what the heck is Fran doing with perkins playing PG for quite a while. I don't think he was even a PG in high school.
Click to expand...
The turnover happened because PMac turned and looked at Nunge like he was there for the outlet and then turned and ran.
 
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From an outsider’s perspective, I think Fran just doesn’t have a good feel for rotations. A couple years back he was going 11 deep in his normal rotation, and it wasn’t because 9 through 11 were talented players. That never made any sense to me. Why not find a couple lineups that work the best for you and really stick with them? It seems like he has tried to do that more this year, but those lineups aren’t working well and he doesn’t change things up much at all

His reluctance to put value on defense is just baffling at this point. There is loads of evidence showing you need to be strong on both ends of the court to be a true title contender
 
bucky44 said:
From an outsider’s perspective, I think Fran just doesn’t have a good feel for rotations. A couple years back he was going 11 deep in his normal rotation, and it wasn’t because 9 through 11 were talented players. That never made any sense to me. Why not find a couple lineups that work the best for you and really stick with them? It seems like he has tried to do that more this year, but those lineups aren’t working well and he doesn’t change things up much at all

His reluctance to put value on defense is just baffling at this point. There is loads of evidence showing you need to be strong on both ends of the court to be a true title contender
Click to expand...

Agree 100 percent. I am not a hoops guy but people who know it say you need some level of of D, guard play and good coaching to make runs. We appear 0-3 on that. Plus, it seems we need both Garza to have a good game plus good 3 point shooting. If either is off we lose. And that is hard on one player and shooting for each game to make a run.
 
jamesvanderwulf said:
If Nunge doesn't throw a rebound into P Mac's backside instead of handing it to a guard standing right next to him, or Keegan gets the ball to a guard instead of trying to dribble after a front court steal, or Luka passes a little better out of the double team, or any number of players block out better...
Click to expand...
or the 4 bunnies that nunge missed , keegan 2 i believe . i do agree with most that defense does not interest fran but these kids are at a major university playing b ball , the effort to play defense should come from within themselves . we played more defense yesterday we just shoot poorly .
 
Eternal Return said:
That's true. But weren't those B10 titles because of tournament runs? I don't recall them winning a regular season B10 championship. But, yeah, at least he did that twice. I have to nitpick and point out that the league back then was not as strong as the league has been the last few years. The B10 used to get thrashed in the ACC challenge every year and now the B10 is even-to-better. But even if I give Alford the slight nod, it's almost all been a disappointment for the past 20 years.
Click to expand...
Agreed, the B1G is much tougher now, at least in recent years. A couple of Alford's teams made runs from low seeds. The 2006 team was seeded #2 and beat #1 Ohio State. A 2-seed and championship game appearance seems very far away right now.
 
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papabeef said:
...but these kids are at a major university playing b ball , the effort to play defense should come from within themselves ...
Click to expand...
I think that's still on the coach. Does the program have a culture of defense? How much practice time is devoted to defense? Are there repercussions (such as being pulled from the game) if a player gives poor effort? All coaching.
 
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Pilsner said:
Agreed, the B1G is much tougher now, at least in recent years. A couple of Alford's teams made runs from low seeds. The 2006 team was seeded #2 and beat #1 Ohio State. A 2-seed and championship game appearance seems very far away right now.
Click to expand...
They were a 3 seed but finished second in conference at 11-5 and completely pissed away a game at NW that would have got them a share of the title if I remember correctly. Then won bten tourney. Total choke job in big dance but I don't think any of Fran's teams have been any better. Close maybe. Alford and Fran were pretty similar with results with Steve being way better in conference tourney and Fran better at ncaa, but that's not saying much with how Steve sucked at the big dance
 
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