QBs in "the better offensive trios in the country" are much, much better than you think they are.
ISU's best lineman out with Broken Leg
- Thread starter paednoch23
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QBs in "the better offensive trios in the country" are much, much better than you think they are.
I don't think you realize how bad the level of QB play is across the country. B1G QB play is horrendous. The list of NFL prospects is extremely underwhelming. There is nothing separating Lanning and a guy like Mitch Leidner or Wes Lunt other than the amount of film. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2017/QB
You are delusional. Lanning's very presence destroys your statement that they constitute "one of the better offensive trios in the country." That is hilarious, unless you honestly believe that.
When your main goal is competing for conference championships and desirable bowl games, then yes, the ISU game is not too high on your goal list. Maybe ISU should start putting up UNI posters?
Okay bud. That trio is actually very similar to what PSU has to offer. A top 25 RB and WR, and an at least average QB with limited starting experience. PSU's is the best in the B1G.
When you find something that refutes my claim, I'll be waiting.
PSU is the best trio in the Big Ten? What the hell are you talking about? Actually, you should find something that backs up YOUR claim. We've been waiting for that since you came up with the premise.
I certainly can. It will take awhile to sort through, but I can. This other guy is just reacting off of blind hate for the Clowns.
So you are saying that ISU was on track to go to a better game than the Orange Bowl that season?
By claiming PSU's trio is the best in the Big Ten and saying ISU's is comparable. Are you claiming if ISU was in the Big Ten they would have the best trio? Puff, puff, pass. Damn, UNI must have just performed the miracle of all miracles on Saturday.
Godwin is an elite receiver and Barkley is an elite back. Nobody else in the B1G has that. The only teams with definitively better QBs are Iowa and OSU, neither of which have an elite RB OR WR. Lazard is an elite receiver and Warren is borderline at running back. Lanning is at least an average QB. Make sense there bud?
Even if the above were true, and I'm not sure Lanning is as good as average, I don't see how that supports your statement that they constitute "one of the better offensive trios in the country." That is ridiculous.
?????
Beathard, Barrett, Lunt, Armstrong, and Liedner, would all be considered definitively better by nearly anybody. Several others could be considered as good or better.
Your tricycle has a flat tire in the front...that said, they might look like the best trio in the country on Saturday.
Rumor has it that Lanning will not be QB1 at isu for very much longer... perhaps as early as the start of their conference play or even earlier.
Maybe you can help me out with these 'elite' skill position players from Ames. What specifically have they accomplished thus far to make them so elite in your eyes?
Out of guys returning from last year, Mike Warren is 11th in the country in rushing yards per game. Lazard is 21st in receiving yards per game. That combo is matched by very few teams.
In the 5 games that he started, Lanning posted 54% completion percentage, 196.6 ypg, 2:1 TD to INT ratio, 52.2 rushing ypg, and 3 rushing TDs. Those are average numbers.
In the 5 games that he started, Lanning posted 54% completion percentage, 196.6 ypg, 2:1 TD to INT ratio, 52.2 rushing ypg, and 3 rushing TDs. Those are average numbers.
Name me one Cyclone in the last few years where someone other than a Cyclone fan considered elite.
Lunt, Armstrong, and Leidner are all at the same level as Lanning. Lunt has stone feet, but still was only an average pocket passer, completing 56% of his passes at 5.7 ypa. Leidner and Lanning are of the same mold. Armstrong has tremendous arm strength and great legs, but a rock between the ears. He turns it over way too much, but you would put him above Lanning if you're okay with the turnovers. Plus, his whole receiving corps blow everybody else's out of the water.
Then argue for the best duo. Best trio is silly. The combination of Beathard-Daniels-Vandeburg is probably better.
The same Warren who had 12 carries for 30 yards against the mighty UNI. That Warren? Well, now your argument is now down to a duo.
Fine by me. I hope so too. I'd be thrilled if they combined for 0 yards passing, receiving, and rushing
That's what happens when your offensive line is among the worst in the country. I've addressed that several times now. Keep up.
Now I agree to agree.Fine by me. I hope so too. I'd be thrilled if they combined for 0 yards passing, receiving, and rushing
So you're sticking with your argument that he is borderline elite then? Ok, got it. lol. This conversation is just so silly using the term elite players when it comes to ISU. Its probably why they've won so many games the last few years. Crissakes, just stop. Your program needed four seasons to win as many games as Iowa won last year. Stop with Cyclones and elite, just stop.
That's your retort? Wow. Yes, YOUR program. Are you not a Cyclone fan? Or do you actually think it is "you are program"?
I actually think that you are on to something... would put cl
Now you are really trying too hard. 'Of the guys returning' has very little meaning at this point in time. It is similar to putting a whole lot of confidence in pre/early season polls.
List for me the stats for the entire big xii when it came to defending the football in 2015. Now, go ahead and delineate those same rankings for each rushing yards and passing yard allowed. Not very impressive, is it? Mike Warren accumulated over 40% of his total rush yards versus a MAC team (Toledo), Kansas and Texas Tech. You do realize hopefully that those are not three teams anyone would have at the top of their even good or even mediocre defenses from last season. Warren is very talented and he may well turn out to be a very good running back for isu, but he is not 'elite' at this time. Same analysis applies for Lazard. One football publication has him no better than top 45 for current receivers this year - good, but not necessarily great. Again, appears to be uniquely talented, but needs to consistently show that on the field when it matters in order to be in the elite category.
The last paragraph is your weakest argument of all. Lanning, by your description, completed all of 54% of his passes in a league that opens its arms to opposing QBs. Again, I suggest you peruse stats for the various big xii QBs over recent years to be better versed on this. Less than 200 yards per game from a big xii QB is not elite. Nor is 52.2 ypg on the ground. The real kicker though is the 2:1 TD to INT ratio; go ahead and quantify that one for me/us because it is not at all impressive.
At least even you admit those to be "average numbers." The disconnect is trying to leap all the way from average to 'elite'. It just is not there.
1) No it's not similar to preseason polls. There are lot more moving pieces when it comes to ranking a team than when it comes to projecting individual performance. "Is this guy going to rush for such and such yards again?" depends on an offensive line and some resemblance of a passing game. "Will this team be a top 10 team?" depends on running game, passing game, run defense, pass defense, schedule and coaching.
2) The whole "Big 12 defense" narrative is so overrated. Big 12 offenses get their gaudy stats the same way Big 10 defenses get theirs. It's all about style of play. As a whole, Big 12 defenses are marginally worse than most other defenses in the same way that B1G offenses are marginally worse than most other offenses. If you want to pull out his stats against the worst teams on the schedule, that's fine, but then you have to do that for every running back in the country before you compare. Also, I called him borderline elite, not elite.
3) At a position that is the most inconsistent from a stats perspective, Lazard was pretty consistent. In 11 games, he had 6 outputs between 66 and 87 yards. He had between 3 and 8 receptions in every game. He was never shut out of a game like receivers often can be. For a true sophomore, those are really good numbers. He is far from his ceiling, so natural progression should be assumed.
4) Comparing Lanning to all other Big12 QBs is foolish because ISU doesn't run the same style of offense as Baylor, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, etc do. They ran about 5-10 plays less per game. That's essentially 50 less yards over the course of a game. The average comp% in the Big12 was 58% last year. Despite it being a league that "opens its arms" to opposing QBs, Lanning was slightly below average. Making up for that difference is his production on the ground. Mahomes was 2.4:1 last year, Rudolph was 2.3:1, and Howard was 1.85:1. Lanning fits right into that group in that regard.
I think your biggest issue with this point is that you think I'm suggest Lanning is an elite QB. I'm not whatsoever. He is pretty average. I'm claiming that combined, the trio is one of the better in the country, not the individual pieces necessarily. If you disagree, oh well, I'm over it and really don't care.
Watch this....
1) The similarities between pre and early-season team rankings and you saying that these three are 'elite' is uncanny. In both situations, the majority of conclusions is yet to be determined. I'll wait to see how many All-American and other post season awards are achieved by your "trio" if you do not mind.
2) The whole big xii defense mantra is what it is. Period. In the most recently completed season, Tech was #126 (out of a possible 127 teams) in rush 'D' allowing over six yards on per opponent carry on average and 279.9 yards per game. Kansas was slightly 'better(?)' at 5.78 ypr and 267.2 ypg. Texas (111th), Okie State (87th), TCU 980th), K-State (63rd), Baylor (56th), Oklahoma (53rd) and West Virginia (51st) round out the league. The style of play your refer to from the big xii focuses entirely on offense and let the defense be darned. Not the same at all as many other Power 5 conferences where a much more balanced approach to all three phases of the game is emphasized.
Tomato, tomato... "borderline" is merely semantics at this point.
3) That level of consistency will not garner anyone 'elite' status. Lazard should be performing at a higher level statistics wise given the experience (now entering third year of significant playing time) he has. Why is he so "far" from that ceiling? Is he taking plays/possessions off? You are now in severe back-track mode now from the 'elite' status you were so quickly assigning these isu players earlier. Why is that?
4) Guess what... the NCAA as well as just about any other ranking service does just that - compares QBs based upon their individual performances. Whose responsibility is it to get this potentially 'elite' player enough snaps? The key from your latest rant is that Lanning was below average. In most each and every case I can think of, below average players are not considered 'elite'. Again, you are dancing around the truth here. Tell everyone exactly how many TDs versus how many INTs this star QB had for isu. Don' t be shy.
The trio has done nothing to support your theory. It has become vogue to hype the skill players becasue isu once again finds itself in a position of weakness when it comes to other position/unit personnel. The local media has to talk about something, so it became fashionable to elevate those three to a higher stature now. All will be proven on the field of play throughout the course of the season. The mistake you have made here is buying into the hype before it is fully justified with tangible results. Now you are simply compounding your error with these rather nefarious statements.
1) Not at all. We have seen individuals play. We are not what they are capable. We have seen nothing from whole teams prior to a season. That is all guesswork framed around the individuals. They aren't similar in the slightest.
2) Historically, OOC stats don't support that at all. You should know better than to use a single sample that is mostly compromised of inter-conference games.
3) He averaged 73.5 receiving ypg last year, 50th in the country. Only 7 of those players were first or second year players. He should be performing higher than that? Lol. Deshaun Watson is far from his ceiling, but he's still elite. College football works that way bud. Receivers can always improve their route tree, body, and blocking. That's how you become far from your ceiling. His first game out this year he posted 6 rec for 129 yards and a TD with little offensive support. Looking pretty elite from day one this year.
4) All I said was that he was slightly below average in comp%. Calling him below average as a QB because of one stat is laughable. That'd be like calling Brett Favre a below average QB because he led the league in interceptions several times. But there you go again, I never claimed he individually was elite. You go ahead and run with that though, that makes a ton of sense.
That 30 yards that Warren had sure was impressive. Just hand over the Heisman and Doak Walker award now.
Sure they do. Other teamS. You don't understand the difference. What ISU does is an obsession when it comes to Iowa.
I wonder how many blown takes there's were during filming this due to laughter by the players and the film crew.
I think your biggest issue with this point is that you think I'm suggest Lanning is an elite QB. I'm not whatsoever. He is pretty average. I'm claiming that combined, the trio is one of the better in the country, not the individual pieces necessarily. If you disagree, oh well, I'm over it and really don't care.
You set a pretty low bar.
You set a pretty low bar.
