Jackson's Contract renewed to 2018
- Thread starter billm2575
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At which time Iowa State will fold its wrestling program just like it did its baseball program. They obviously don't care about being competitive.
Perry's ability to recruit nationwide. From his stints at Blair to Cal poly, Ties with Iowa and Oklahoma st and now Illinios, to his name being recognized by most youngsters. Delgado made him look good but IMart is going to make Perry's comodity even hotter. The funny part is why would he even want the ISU job, he could do so much better and already is in a better spot. Hate to break this too some of us homers but Illinios puts out better recruits than Iowa does. And they dont have to deal with Barnds and Scwab in their own instate tuition pond. Why would anyone want the ISU job? If they get someone he has to be a huge national recruiter to make ISU elite again becasue just fighting for scraps in your homestate is a bad recipe.
I dont think KJ is the devil, however from my talks of big cyclone wrestling donors is KJ will have a job until they can justify somebody better and it is clear. Pollard has reached out to a few who would fit that mold but is told no thanks everytime. KJ will have his job in small yearly increments until someone says yes. I am not a huge fan of KJs but you could do way worse. He will have his job until someone better says yes.
Its really not that hard to see.
How did that work for them this year?
Improvement needs
Conditioning, bottom wrestling (seems they get ridden hard a lot), recruiting (bringing in top 50-100 guys will not cut it at ISU), redshirting kids when they need a redshirt (see John Meeks).
This post was edited on 4/2 12:06 PM by Hawks1010
Don't know if I am following you Hawks1010.....revenue and fan interest for all things Cyclone Basketball has been off the charts for awhile...especially the past 2 years. Bad 1st round NCAA loss was certainly underachieving....but the money still flowed like crazy and will again in the foreseeable future. Of course it helps ISU BB that ISU FB is a perennial cellar dweller.
Wrestling gates are average at ISU and wrestling fan interest is average at ISU....Jackson being very secure there tells us all we need to know. ISU would certainly enjoy seeing improvement, but they are content with the current product.
Wrestling gates are average at ISU and wrestling fan interest is average at ISU....Jackson being very secure there tells us all we need to know. ISU would certainly enjoy seeing improvement, but they are content with the current product.
Wrestling isnt a priority since Pollard took over. Not saying its wrong as football and mens bball generate everything so that what he went after. As much as I dislike Cael, this played a roll into his leaving. He wanted to keep growing the program and Pollard said he would rather bowl in the south endzone at some point. All money was going to football. Likewise PSU already had a giant football program and wanted wrestling glory and willing to pay for it. Combine that with the best recruiting land with his ego and alumni pride didnt stand a chance. I dont blame Pollard and cant blame PSU. However odd they just dont seem to ever want to jumpstart their mens Bball team?
And ISU is a BBall school. Season ticket holders donation just raised from $500 to $1000 to be able to buy season tickets. And they will fill them.
This post was edited on 4/2 1:32 PM by Ihawkd9times
And ISU is a BBall school. Season ticket holders donation just raised from $500 to $1000 to be able to buy season tickets. And they will fill them.
This post was edited on 4/2 1:32 PM by Ihawkd9times
For the most part, KJ gets held to unrealistic expectations. Remember that even Cael Sanderson couldn't win a Championship at ISU. He was most definitely the hottest name in Wrestling when he was there and as soon as he went to PSU they became a powerhouse.
Simply put, what KJ is doing at ISU is about as good as what 72(or so) of the 77 DI Head Coaches would be able to do at ISU. ISU wrestling will always be 2nd fiddle to Iowa in Wrestling. Anyone who lives in Iowa knows that. Throw in the Regional development of tOSU, Penn State, Cornell along with the Perennial Powerhouses like OkState and Minnesota and you have 6 clearly defined teams that will year in and year out produce at a very high level. You then have teams like Michigan, V Tech, Illinois, Missouri and Nebraska whom have all made significant strides.
Which of the above teams that I listed is ISU supposed to finish ahead of? They are a Top15ish type program and KJ has consistently kept them there. Anything more than that would take a Brands, Sanderson or Smith type hire(of established coaches). The only other thing(which could backfire due to lack of experience) would be a big young name hire like Burroughs or Metcalf.
KJ is doing a pretty damn good job with what he has to work with.........4 NCAA Champs in 6 years as a Head Coach is pretty solid.
This post was edited on 4/2 2:51 PM by MSU158
Simply put, what KJ is doing at ISU is about as good as what 72(or so) of the 77 DI Head Coaches would be able to do at ISU. ISU wrestling will always be 2nd fiddle to Iowa in Wrestling. Anyone who lives in Iowa knows that. Throw in the Regional development of tOSU, Penn State, Cornell along with the Perennial Powerhouses like OkState and Minnesota and you have 6 clearly defined teams that will year in and year out produce at a very high level. You then have teams like Michigan, V Tech, Illinois, Missouri and Nebraska whom have all made significant strides.
Which of the above teams that I listed is ISU supposed to finish ahead of? They are a Top15ish type program and KJ has consistently kept them there. Anything more than that would take a Brands, Sanderson or Smith type hire(of established coaches). The only other thing(which could backfire due to lack of experience) would be a big young name hire like Burroughs or Metcalf.
KJ is doing a pretty damn good job with what he has to work with.........4 NCAA Champs in 6 years as a Head Coach is pretty solid.
This post was edited on 4/2 2:51 PM by MSU158
Being in the top 10 and at least being a thought for a team trophy is not unrealistic for ISU. You're confusing MSU and ISU expectations. Sanderson was not there long enough to say he could not win a NC at ISU he was a heck of a lot closer than Jackson has been, he had Taylor coming to ISU, Brown was there. Jackson's best team was what Sanderson left him. ISU has historically been better than PSU, tosu and Cornell and all of the up and coming teams you mentioned. Why all of the sudden since Jackson took over are they placed in a much lower expectation level? The only thing keeping ISU from being in the up and coming group or better is the guy running the program, plain and simple. Anyone who thinks different is making excuses. What KJ has to work with is his doing at this point, giving him a break with that comment is a joke. Either they want to be better or they don't. By keeping KJ they are saying we are happy being second tier and that winning an individual title here and there is the gold standard. Gadsen is the only KJ guy to win a title if I am not mistaken. If KJ can not get top 5 results at some point the next 3 years they are dopes to still keep him. I hope for their sake they are just buying time for an up and coming coach to be ready to bring in not to mention dip shit Pollard is laid up right now and probably does not want to deal with a change at this point.
One thing I found interesting when I was lurking on the ISU board last night was many (the 5 fans) seem as if they are still optimistic about the extension.
The second thing I found hilarious is they are still blaming CAEL 6 years later for as they put it "gutting" there program. He took Taylor and Brown with him and we all know why Long had to leave. 1 moron who said Iowa wrestlers have a tough time finding the top of the podium compared it to Brands "gutting" VT. VT-3 top ten finishes ISU-0
I took this off D1CW
6) Iowa State
Top Recruits: (125) #16 Ryak Finch-Safford, AZ, (157) #29 Joey Cozart-Brandon, FL, (174) #60 Michael Moreno-Urbandale, IA, (184) #65 Kyven Gadson-Waterloo, IA, (141) #98 Luke Goettl-Cottonwood, AZ, (165) #123 Mike England-Centreville, IA
Like rival Iowa, the Cyclones were hit hard by graduation in 2010 losing six starters. This group of six top 150 recruits may be pressed into duty sooner rather than later. Ryak Finch, the top 119lber in the nation, comes to Ames after winning Junior Freestyle and Greco-Roman titles last summer in Fargo. Three in-state prospects (Mike England, Michael Moreno, and Kyven Gadson) bring much needed help to the upper weights. Last but not least, is Four-Time Florida State Champ Joey Cozart, who spent his high school years wrestling for the legendary Brandon program.
Past D1CW Recruiting Rankings: 2009 NR, 2008 #8
KJ is not doing a good job. He hasn't been in the top 10 since Cael's team in 2010. I'm glad they kept him because obviously he can't recruit a WHOLE team or keep the majority of his top recruits from going NAIA. I'm sure all of this is Cael's fault too.
The second thing I found hilarious is they are still blaming CAEL 6 years later for as they put it "gutting" there program. He took Taylor and Brown with him and we all know why Long had to leave. 1 moron who said Iowa wrestlers have a tough time finding the top of the podium compared it to Brands "gutting" VT. VT-3 top ten finishes ISU-0
I took this off D1CW
6) Iowa State
Top Recruits: (125) #16 Ryak Finch-Safford, AZ, (157) #29 Joey Cozart-Brandon, FL, (174) #60 Michael Moreno-Urbandale, IA, (184) #65 Kyven Gadson-Waterloo, IA, (141) #98 Luke Goettl-Cottonwood, AZ, (165) #123 Mike England-Centreville, IA
Like rival Iowa, the Cyclones were hit hard by graduation in 2010 losing six starters. This group of six top 150 recruits may be pressed into duty sooner rather than later. Ryak Finch, the top 119lber in the nation, comes to Ames after winning Junior Freestyle and Greco-Roman titles last summer in Fargo. Three in-state prospects (Mike England, Michael Moreno, and Kyven Gadson) bring much needed help to the upper weights. Last but not least, is Four-Time Florida State Champ Joey Cozart, who spent his high school years wrestling for the legendary Brandon program.
Past D1CW Recruiting Rankings: 2009 NR, 2008 #8
KJ is not doing a good job. He hasn't been in the top 10 since Cael's team in 2010. I'm glad they kept him because obviously he can't recruit a WHOLE team or keep the majority of his top recruits from going NAIA. I'm sure all of this is Cael's fault too.
Your expectations are set very low MSU. 3 of the 4 NCAA champs are Caels guys. I am not giving KJ credit for Varner, Zabriskie and really Reader. Like I said ISU is buying time until the can get that guy. You said Metcalf or Burroughs. IMO the guy they need to hire is Varner and sourround him with expierenced coaches. Like say after RIO
MVPFan,
How do any MSU expectations have anything to do with this thread. Anyone I know from when we were actually pretty damn good, would be thoroughly shocked if the CURRENT MSU finished anywhere near what ISU has done under KJ.
You also ignored the gist of my post. I listed: tOSU, Iowa, Penn State, Minnesota, OkState, Cornell, Michigan, V Tech, Illinois, and Missouri. Of the above teams who should ISU consistently finish ahead of? They all have incredible facilities, 8 of them have RTC's and top notch coaching staffs.
They may not be consistently in the top 10 but they haven't been far away either. Throw his best and worst years away, as I believe they are both due to Sanderson, and he has averaged 14th at NCAA's over 4 seasons.
09-10: 3rd Place NCAA----------------3 Finalists, 2 Champs. 3 AA's
10-11: 20th Place NCAA---------------1 Champ 2 AA's (oops only 1- Long Sandersoned KJ!)
11-12: 35th Place NCAA---------------Big fat zero------Dresser didn't make VTech come back from Brands leaving overnight!
12-13: 11th Place NCAA---------------3 AA's
13-14: 12th Place NCAA---------------3 AA's
14-15: 14th Place NCAA---------------1 Champ, 2 Round of 12
His last 3 years have basically been his teams after having to re-stock after Sanderson left.
A better question for you would be how many DI coaches do you honestly believe would do significantly better? And, more importantly, why?
How do any MSU expectations have anything to do with this thread. Anyone I know from when we were actually pretty damn good, would be thoroughly shocked if the CURRENT MSU finished anywhere near what ISU has done under KJ.
You also ignored the gist of my post. I listed: tOSU, Iowa, Penn State, Minnesota, OkState, Cornell, Michigan, V Tech, Illinois, and Missouri. Of the above teams who should ISU consistently finish ahead of? They all have incredible facilities, 8 of them have RTC's and top notch coaching staffs.
They may not be consistently in the top 10 but they haven't been far away either. Throw his best and worst years away, as I believe they are both due to Sanderson, and he has averaged 14th at NCAA's over 4 seasons.
09-10: 3rd Place NCAA----------------3 Finalists, 2 Champs. 3 AA's
10-11: 20th Place NCAA---------------1 Champ 2 AA's (oops only 1- Long Sandersoned KJ!)
11-12: 35th Place NCAA---------------Big fat zero------Dresser didn't make VTech come back from Brands leaving overnight!
12-13: 11th Place NCAA---------------3 AA's
13-14: 12th Place NCAA---------------3 AA's
14-15: 14th Place NCAA---------------1 Champ, 2 Round of 12
His last 3 years have basically been his teams after having to re-stock after Sanderson left.
A better question for you would be how many DI coaches do you honestly believe would do significantly better? And, more importantly, why?
Cael left him a heck of heavy SR lead veteran team that was arguably the 2nd best team in the country. Im sorry but I cant let KJ ride that for one season. But since Reader was a JR I can give him a bit of credit for his SR title. However IMO had way more to do with Reader cutting weight so bad at 165 and bad omaha tourney and 174 clearing out the next than it did KJ reinventing him as a wrestler.
IMO Gadsen is the only elite guy he has had and Gadsen was ISU bound regardless the coach.
IMO Gadsen is the only elite guy he has had and Gadsen was ISU bound regardless the coach.
Remember guys, everyone can't be Iowa. Hell, even Iowa has had a hard time lately being Iowa!
Parity has become a big part of this sport and being the 2nd best option in a small, rural state like Iowa(UNI may argue against that) doesn't exactly make it easy to build a team better than Iowa(obviously) OkState, Penn State, tOSU, Cornell, and growing powers like Illinois, Michigan, Missouri, V. Tech and more recently Edinboro and ASU.
My point is KJ is actually a pretty good coach. There are only a handful of "Elite" coaches and I am not sure they would want to go to ISU when all the schools above have done a ton to make that job more appealing.
Parity has become a big part of this sport and being the 2nd best option in a small, rural state like Iowa(UNI may argue against that) doesn't exactly make it easy to build a team better than Iowa(obviously) OkState, Penn State, tOSU, Cornell, and growing powers like Illinois, Michigan, Missouri, V. Tech and more recently Edinboro and ASU.
My point is KJ is actually a pretty good coach. There are only a handful of "Elite" coaches and I am not sure they would want to go to ISU when all the schools above have done a ton to make that job more appealing.
Spooner,
He is finishing in the Top 14, consistently. If he was coaching Iowa, OkState, Penn State, tOSU or Minnesota that wouldn't be good enough. For nearly every other DI school he wouldn't have to worry about losing his job. Should he truly be held to the standards of the schools I listed?
He is finishing in the Top 14, consistently. If he was coaching Iowa, OkState, Penn State, tOSU or Minnesota that wouldn't be good enough. For nearly every other DI school he wouldn't have to worry about losing his job. Should he truly be held to the standards of the schools I listed?
Another good question/topic for this debate would be:
How do you market a top 5 recruit? What about ISU's wrestling would you use to make him not consider the Powerhouses like Iowa, Penn State, OkState and Minnesota? What about the wrestling AND academics at schools like Cornell, Michigan and Northwestern? How about newly revamped schools like ASU, Illinois and VTech?
ISU may have been competitive in the past. But what makes them a better option NOW than the teams I listed? How many Coaches could truly come in and have just their presence alone be enough? If you can list 10, that still puts him at 11. By anyone's math 11th out of 77 is pretty good!
How do you market a top 5 recruit? What about ISU's wrestling would you use to make him not consider the Powerhouses like Iowa, Penn State, OkState and Minnesota? What about the wrestling AND academics at schools like Cornell, Michigan and Northwestern? How about newly revamped schools like ASU, Illinois and VTech?
ISU may have been competitive in the past. But what makes them a better option NOW than the teams I listed? How many Coaches could truly come in and have just their presence alone be enough? If you can list 10, that still puts him at 11. By anyone's math 11th out of 77 is pretty good!
11th 14th not good enough, gable sanderson varner all isu alums if you settle you will become mich st.. that is why we are pissed about 2nd, if that becomes good enough .when do you say look at those guys ahead of us we cant compete with them. lame
So are you saying that it really isn't KJ's fault that the guy after Cael took this program from being a perennial top 6 program to a second tier program? It isn't his fault that he now can't get any good recruits because that guy ruined the program beyond repair??
Oh wait, that guy is him.
Placing 14th with a NCAA Champ is ruining a program beyond repair?
Again guys, you aren't answering the main part of my argument. ISU isn't falling behind. They are being passed by. Hell, even Iowa is having to deal with Parity. If it is affecting Iowa wouldn't it make sense it would affect ISU even more so? I keep pointing out that MANY schools have done a ton to make themselves more appealing than ISU.
As I have asked before, really look at the schools I have listed. What can/should KJ do to make recruits truly believe they would be better off attending ISU? It isn't just KJ. It is ISU as well. Anything short of a Top 3 HC hire isn't gonna make a difference. How do the ISU facilities match up? How do the academics match up? How does the conference they are in match up?(they don't have one)
Sanderson saw all these things and left for greener pastures. KJ isn't a bad coach. I say that because VERY few current coaches could do better.
Again guys, you aren't answering the main part of my argument. ISU isn't falling behind. They are being passed by. Hell, even Iowa is having to deal with Parity. If it is affecting Iowa wouldn't it make sense it would affect ISU even more so? I keep pointing out that MANY schools have done a ton to make themselves more appealing than ISU.
As I have asked before, really look at the schools I have listed. What can/should KJ do to make recruits truly believe they would be better off attending ISU? It isn't just KJ. It is ISU as well. Anything short of a Top 3 HC hire isn't gonna make a difference. How do the ISU facilities match up? How do the academics match up? How does the conference they are in match up?(they don't have one)
Sanderson saw all these things and left for greener pastures. KJ isn't a bad coach. I say that because VERY few current coaches could do better.
That's some pretty hefty spin when it is also accurate to say he's finishing in the 11-20 range consistently.
ISU is well in that second tier When it comes to program support and tradition after the big 6. Finishing in the teens or worse consistently is not impressive or good in any way. Especially with little coming back next year in terms of talent.
In another post you asked what he could do to improve the program. I think he's at a point where they are on solid ground but they have plateaued. He's close to his ceiling if not at his ceiling. He probably can't do much more than the current underachieving level. His record as a coach is spotty and he's not a name.
This post was edited on 4/2 4:55 PM by SPOONER
Its a top school in Ag related studies and has one of the best engineering programs in the country, its also a great campus with a great wrestling tradition.
If a top recruit won't go there, how did DT, Matt Brown, and Cael himself end up there?
The fact that he isn't landing guys from his own back yard (30 miles) like Clark, Meyer or Miklus, tells you what you need to know.
Do I think he can win a title every year? NO. Can Iowa State be w consistent top 10 team with a chance to win it every 7-10 years? Absolutely.
If a top recruit won't go there, how did DT, Matt Brown, and Cael himself end up there?
The fact that he isn't landing guys from his own back yard (30 miles) like Clark, Meyer or Miklus, tells you what you need to know.
Do I think he can win a title every year? NO. Can Iowa State be w consistent top 10 team with a chance to win it every 7-10 years? Absolutely.
It is KJ, he is a poor recruiter and an average coach at best. ISU's facilities are plenty fine. Not like Edinboro has lavish facilities, they do have a good coach though. Their lack of conference as you say is not the issue, see OSU. Mizzou had to go to the MAC, they are doing fine. Those teams have good coaches! Sanderson left for $$$ and a job in the middle of talent city. He also has a huge ego and hates not being #1 and if he could get on top easier he was going to do it. The amount of current coaches that could do better is unknown but if a HS coach can take over VT and have them sitting where they are then there are plenty of options. Any coach who can recruit will do better because KJ is not anything special at development either. KJ is not the worst coach ever but he is not that great either. Branch, Bono, Kish, Perry, Hahn, Cunningham, etc etc would all do better than KJ.
Younggun07,
I never said they can't get a top recruit. I said it is a lot harder for them to get a top recruit than it was when they recruited Sanderson. Also, Taylor and Brown went there FOR Sanderson as they never wrestled for ISU.
Please understand I am not saying ISU is a bad school. I simply think parity has limited their reach. I really don't think there are many Coaches out there who could do better. Obviously, some of you disagree. How he does next year, with Gadson gone, will show a lot.
I never said they can't get a top recruit. I said it is a lot harder for them to get a top recruit than it was when they recruited Sanderson. Also, Taylor and Brown went there FOR Sanderson as they never wrestled for ISU.
Please understand I am not saying ISU is a bad school. I simply think parity has limited their reach. I really don't think there are many Coaches out there who could do better. Obviously, some of you disagree. How he does next year, with Gadson gone, will show a lot.
steelermc,
Seriously? I didn't start this thread. I simply stated why I thought he was a good coach. I never said great. All of my subsequent posts have been responses to negative opinions of KJ. I am not arguing. I am looking to have a "level-headed" conversation about a 3X World Level Medalist, who hails from Michigan, that happens to be the Head Coach of a major DI school in Iowa.
Also, I never said any one person's opinion was wrong. I just tried to challenge everyone to give legitimate reasons why they disagree and list which current DI Head Coaches could do better.
Seriously? I didn't start this thread. I simply stated why I thought he was a good coach. I never said great. All of my subsequent posts have been responses to negative opinions of KJ. I am not arguing. I am looking to have a "level-headed" conversation about a 3X World Level Medalist, who hails from Michigan, that happens to be the Head Coach of a major DI school in Iowa.
Also, I never said any one person's opinion was wrong. I just tried to challenge everyone to give legitimate reasons why they disagree and list which current DI Head Coaches could do better.
Agreed. The Iowa State wrestling team that I know doesn't struggle to make the Top 10, has multiple weights with Championship aspirations, and gives Iowa fits in dual meets. None of those things really exist in Ames anymore.
Iowa has owned this series for a long time, but many of those duals were up in the air from start to finish, as good as it got.
Retaining Jackson isn't going to bring those days back. They have settled for battling for 10th it appears to me. I like it MUCH better when Iowa State is up near the top and VERY competitive with Iowa.
I never said you started the thread. You like to wait for someone to respond and then you argue. To be honest, I don't like you. You come on like your smarter than everyone else. Maybe you should just challenge yourself by trying to have a level-headed conversation with yourself.Your worthy of my "Ignore".
Well, I had some time to kill so looked at their placements since 1980.
1980-1989: Avg placement was 3.2
1990-1999: Avg placement was 6.4
2000-2009: Avg placement was 6.8
Jackson years 2010-2015: Avg placement is 15.8 and that includes that 3rd place finish his first year.
Then you have to look at expectations for next year. Their two top scorers graduate and they have little points coming back.
I think a top 10 placement every year is not too much for an Iowa State wrestling fan to ask. This is a school with a lot of rich history.
1980-1989: Avg placement was 3.2
1990-1999: Avg placement was 6.4
2000-2009: Avg placement was 6.8
Jackson years 2010-2015: Avg placement is 15.8 and that includes that 3rd place finish his first year.
Then you have to look at expectations for next year. Their two top scorers graduate and they have little points coming back.
I think a top 10 placement every year is not too much for an Iowa State wrestling fan to ask. This is a school with a lot of rich history.
I expected it this year, but it didn't happen. IMO iIt would be very difficult to go from 11th & 12th straight into top 5 in 1 year. Gotta break into the top ten, stay consistant and then move up.
Nobody knows if KJ will get there, everything is speculation on both sides of agreeing or not with the extension.
