We know what they believed. The point is what they believed was wrong. That really should condemn the whole enterprise. But religion is like Trump, believers will always make an excuse for it.
Jesus
- Thread starter sadiehawkins
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Paul got a lot more right than he ever did wrong. There's a reason Jesus spoke in parables. Greater truth must be ascertained through diligence and perhaps some trial and error. It's part of the sanctification process. That's the beauty of Christianity.
Regardless, none of it is a compelling repudiation of the whole enterprise. You are blinded by your hatred of religion. If you applied those same standards of infallibility to science or liberalism, both would have been deep-sixed a long time ago.
Cool thing about all this is with respect to religion you can say, “I’m right because my faith tells me so. The others? Little different.
Not exactly. Faith is not fantasy, nor is it interchangeable with common sense or sound reasoning.
I believe, for example, there is compelling evidence for the resurrection of Jesus. Frankly, when you look at historical evidence for people and events accepted as true throughout antiquity, it takes a lot of faith to believe the eye witness testimony of five-hundred people and the numerous people who wouldn't recant to avoid torture and death were all a scam.
You must believe all religions are true, because they all have the same evidence.
Actually, the authors of the new testament were right about a lot of things. Luke's work, for instance, would be considered one of the most reliable historical accounts if it were secular.
All religions are NOT the same. Only Christianity
proclaims that God created the universe and still
sustains it. Only Christianity proclaims that death
has been defeated by the resurrection of Jesus
Christ. and that He shares that victory with all who
believe in Him.
proclaims that God created the universe and still
sustains it. Only Christianity proclaims that death
has been defeated by the resurrection of Jesus
Christ. and that He shares that victory with all who
believe in Him.
There are actually surprising historical errors in the New Testament which points to them not being written by eye witnesses. But history accuracy isn’t the issue. It’s the supernatural accuracy that is in question.
Minor differences from Judaism or Islam. It’s really more of a hero cult than a separate religion.
The founder of Buddhism died in 480 BC at the
age of 80 and is still buried.
The founder of Islam died in 632 AD at the age
of 62 and is still buried.
The founder of Christianity is Jesus Christ, the Son
Of God and he conquered death with His resurrection.
He is the only religious leader who can promise life
after death.
age of 80 and is still buried.
The founder of Islam died in 632 AD at the age
of 62 and is still buried.
The founder of Christianity is Jesus Christ, the Son
Of God and he conquered death with His resurrection.
He is the only religious leader who can promise life
after death.
Much wasn't written by first-hand eye witnesses, but through interviews of witnesses. What many folks don't understand is the tradition of oral conveyance. Stories were told over and over again throughout history with great detail and accuracy. Sure, there can be errors, but this was how History was often documented; through oral tradition.
Yes, that will always be the issue and man's hi-jacking via "religious procedure" will continue to thwart any positives from Jesus' message. It's been my experience folks don't take issue with Jesus, they take issue with religion and man's weaponization of the Bible.
Lute is right. All religions are not the same. Yes, the idea of religion is funny. But some are funnier than others. EX - scientology.
The Census of Quirinius occurred 9 years after Herod’s death. Luke uses the census as the basis for Joseph and Mary return to Judea
I think that’s basically true. If you just made Jesus a human prophet or philosopher, the story is more useful. Thomas Jefferson wrote a version of the Bible that did this essentially. The magic screws up the message.
But does it? I can't pick and choose. If I believe that God created the universe and the wonder that is the human body (for one example), it's really not a stretch to believe He also conquered death. I see God all throughout Science and its amazing to me.
- Sep 13, 2002
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So if I end up in the sky with a bunch of goddamn zombies, it’s the Second Coming?
No thanks, I’ll pass.
No one will "end up in the sky". If you're sincerely curious, I recommend reading Heaven by Randy Alcorn. I used to dread the afterlife--imagined singing boring hymns while playing a harp floating on a cloud. After reading that book (more like an encyclopedia), I'm actually pretty excited.
Again, it shouldn't be hard to believe in an unimaginable afterlife from the same God who spoke us into existence. Existing outside the confines of time with unfathomable resources is pretty exciting to say the least.
- Sep 13, 2002
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I was mostly joking. I’m pretty agnostic. I believe the universe was created intentionally and intelligently, but I do not believe any human beings have the capacity to actually understand how and that all religions are basically attempts to fill in that gap in knowledge with stories that make us feel better collectively.
Thomas Jefferson cut out some of the verses in
the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
He removed all the miracles of Jesus and focused
on the teachings of Jesus. He was impressed with
the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew.
Bottom Line: Thomas Jefferson did not believe that
Jesus was the Son of God. However, Jefferson often
referred to himself as a Christian because he tried
to follow the teachings of Christ..
the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
He removed all the miracles of Jesus and focused
on the teachings of Jesus. He was impressed with
the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew.
Bottom Line: Thomas Jefferson did not believe that
Jesus was the Son of God. However, Jefferson often
referred to himself as a Christian because he tried
to follow the teachings of Christ..
Countless rituals and even doctrines aren't actually IN Scripture.
The thing that really makes me pause, regarding mostly Christians (or any of the three Abrahamic religions), is how many of the followers are completely detached from their own identity. I've heard so many Baptists scoff at Jehovah's Witnesses and say "Those people are nuts!" Or, some other denomination is doing it wrong. And, they never question or notice their own idiosyncrasies or eccentricities that put them in the wacky column by the measure of others. Organized religion is SO insular that it's amazing to see firsthand.
And, that's not even beginning to address the notion that whatever God is, it was God loooooong before any Holy Bible was scratched out. As far as I can tell, the Bible even says that Adam and Eve were the first Hebrews, if you really pay attention to the message. Most Jews have a totally different view of the origin of the world and perspective of God than the members of the other two baby religions it spawned.
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were illiterate, and didn't actually author the "books" that use their names. Those collections of stories were written by multiple people and sources, and they were given those "names" much later.
When I learned about the origins of the actual creation of the books of the Bible (old and new testament) it makes much more sense from every imaginable perspective. 99% of religious people never know, or want to know. It would disrupt their values system.
Paul was the one of the few literate Jews in the Bible, who authored his own writings. And, even some of them are not an absolute certainty that he wrote them. The manuscripts are so patched together that it's not unusual for the religions that have endured are so diverse and scattered. The conviction of their believers is never a shock. When you see people justify killing other people and base it on religion, it makes perfect sense.
The post was a reply to the question posed as to how does one tell the second coming. So while you are passing you will at least recognize it, I guess.
