Yep, another JoBo thread but this is meant to show how ridiculous Fran is in handling this situation. JoBo had zero turnovers on the 51 times he got the ball into the front court with all being uncontested passes to wide open teammates with 5 passes going inside the arc. He also had 3 shots inside the arc with two 10-12 foot air balls and a missed running layup. Zero points in the first 33:09 and 6 in the final 2:57 when the game was already decided on 1 for 7 shooting. 5 assists on a 10 footer by Luka and four made 3s. Joe T earned 3:54 in playing time, got 8 trips up the floor and 5 of those times got the ball inside the arc. One made basket, 2 assists (the stat sheet failed to include his assist on Murray‘s drive at 11:34), another basket on a good feed to Weezy who dumped it to Luka at 12:17 and another great opportunity at 11:00 when Murray was denied at the rim. Finally the turnover that ended his night at 8:38 on what definitely could have been called a force out in a tightly reffed game. Then I couldn’t believe it when it looked like JoBo couldnt hardly walk the ball up at the 4:30 mark with Joe T and AU on the bench. Joe T also saved a layup on Davis at 10:08 by cutting him off at the rim. Joe T did contribute way more in 3:54 than JoBo did the entire game. For those of you that always come up with the turnover excuse related to Joe T, the Badgers had zero turnovers the 1st half and still trailed by 9 to the Hawks who had 6. A statistic that can be way overrated. Sorry, accidentally posted twice.
JoBo——Joe T Wisky Comparison
- Thread starter TJFant
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You’re treading in dangerous waters buddy. Good luck 
Will posters finally realize that JT should be getting Connor's minutes? Jordan actually brings a lot to the table even when he isn't hitting shots. He could do even more if he were paired with JT or Murray instead of Connor.
I think the only consensus we can come to is that Toussaint needs more minutes than he's going to get, and hopefully he sticks around to be the guy next year........
This was glossed over as Garza and Weisy were so outstanding, but I was having many of the same thoughts as you OP. One thing is certain, our guard play has to improve for the postseason. Garza and Weisy will not always play as well as they played.
It may have been the way JoeT plays, it’s a a bit too fast and he gets himself into trouble (like dribbling right onto the baseline. 1TO in <. 4 minute, and it still happens very consistently.
Conversely JoBo and ConMac both play at a more consistent methodical approach and focus on getting ball to Garza and Wieskamp, versus getting the ball into the paint to attempt to make a play.
maybe that is what Fran likes? (and they both have very good A/TO ratios...
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I'm not disagreeing with your overall premise but it does seem a little disingenuous that you include Joe T's hockey and almost assists in your argument.
Also this, is not a sound argument. If we had only 3 turnovers, we might have been up 13 at half.
The worst thing about playing JBO at pg is that he gets almost no open looks.
Its makes the one thing he does very well unlikely to happen and takes away the chance of easy baskets being created for others.
Its makes the one thing he does very well unlikely to happen and takes away the chance of easy baskets being created for others.
he creates space for Garza by having to be guarded out high. I’m not saying that’s enough to justify him, but there is value there
The lineup when JT first came seems to be our most athletic lineup, and they were smooth.
He played really well and it's too bad about his TO but JBo was really, really, good last night except shooting.
He played really well and it's too bad about his TO but JBo was really, really, good last night except shooting.
You have to ask yourself what you’re willing to give up and what you gain by giving Joe T more minutes. It has to be hard as a coach to give a player major minutes when his TO Rate is 27 and when said player struggles to shoot the ball.
Joe T is a definite upgrade on the defensive end but is that enough to offset his deficiencies? Ehhhh, on this team, I’m not quite sure.
But, and this is the question many are asking, would extended minutes help Joe mentally. Maybe he’s in his own head right now, playing tight, not really enjoying his role which leads to some of his gaffes. Perhaps.
Are we willing to possibly disrupt one of the most efficient offenses in the Kenpom era to find out? At this point Fran isn’t willing to roll the dice on Joe. And, frankly, after winning 3 in a row by DD, two of which came on the road, would you?
Joe T is a definite upgrade on the defensive end but is that enough to offset his deficiencies? Ehhhh, on this team, I’m not quite sure.
But, and this is the question many are asking, would extended minutes help Joe mentally. Maybe he’s in his own head right now, playing tight, not really enjoying his role which leads to some of his gaffes. Perhaps.
Are we willing to possibly disrupt one of the most efficient offenses in the Kenpom era to find out? At this point Fran isn’t willing to roll the dice on Joe. And, frankly, after winning 3 in a row by DD, two of which came on the road, would you?
Aww, another post about Jbo. I get criticized for calling morons idiots. I’m so sorry ... going forward, I’m going to start calling idiots, morons just to be fair.
This post get nominated for most cherry picking of facts ever. Quite the accomplishment!
I agree 100%. I feel for the guy who is doing everything he can with the physical limitations he has. Again I have noticed that since the Illinois game his assignment is to basically get it into the front court, give it up and let his teammates go 4 on 4. He seldom ever looks inside anymore which I assume is Franball.
Here are assist to turnover statistics for 6 excellent point guards that I watch quite a bit and are the creme de la creme. Jared Butler 5.2A and 2.8T 1.85%, Marcus Carr 5.1A and 2.1T, 2.43%, Ayo Dosunmu 5.1A and 3.2T 1.59%, Jalen Suggs 4.4A and 3.0T 1.47%, Marcus Zegarowski 4.4A and 2.3T 1.91%, and finally Caitlin Clark 6.5A and 4.9T 1.33%. So with Franball and the narrow minded tunnel vision of FM when it comes to point guard play, Carr might be the only player of the 6 that he might play even though 5 of them will be playing professionally next year and the 6th could win NCAA freshman of the year! The assist to turnover ratio can be way overblown!
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black heart gold pants had a great article “the case for Joe touisant” breaking this all down. Even with JTs high turnover rate stats that rank players using both offensive and defensive efficiency have Joe T way above JBo.
Joe T EvanMiya.com rating is 6th on the team at 41. Jbo is 9th at 27 (65 percent of JoeT).
Jbo off rank 13th in nation;
Jbo def rank 2450 out of 2600 players
Joe T off rank 400
Joe T def rank 200
I thought the most interesting thing is both players optimal efficiency have been playing together. I think that is what frustrates some fans the most. Playing Joe T 10 more minutes at PG would give Jbo more rest and better open looks.
Obviously numbers aren’t perfect but when we get to the tourney and play games one day apart do you really want Jbo playing 20 minute second halves? There isn’t much time left in this season to get Joe T confidence/experience.
Joe T EvanMiya.com rating is 6th on the team at 41. Jbo is 9th at 27 (65 percent of JoeT).
Jbo off rank 13th in nation;
Jbo def rank 2450 out of 2600 players
Joe T off rank 400
Joe T def rank 200
I thought the most interesting thing is both players optimal efficiency have been playing together. I think that is what frustrates some fans the most. Playing Joe T 10 more minutes at PG would give Jbo more rest and better open looks.
Obviously numbers aren’t perfect but when we get to the tourney and play games one day apart do you really want Jbo playing 20 minute second halves? There isn’t much time left in this season to get Joe T confidence/experience.
Fair point , my opinion Joe needs more minutes but Frans comfort level with Jbo is why he plays, and not likely to change this year
Every CMAC playing time justification always begins with his Assist to TO ratio because he doesn't do anything else that stands out on a stats sheet. Fredrick has actually best Assist to TO ratio this year, and he can shoot, but he is not healthy.
JBO and CMAC are assist leaders and both have good Assist/TO ratios. JoeT does deserve more PT for defensive reasons and he would be getting it from most coaches. His PT would come out of CMAC and JBO PT. Iowa has Fran and Fran does Fran things.
This discussion started cleaaaar back when we were in the midst of losing 4of5. I think if fran makes the right substitutions, where defense was obviously needed, we probably beat osu and illinois and are looking at a chance for reg season BIG championship. Next weeks games will be very telling against um & osu’s much more athletic guards.
Personally, I am way past being sick of this discussion. JBo, despite ALL HIS SHORTCOMINGS, has put up some record breaking numbers during his career here. Why so many stay focused on what he supposedly can't do instead of all the things he HAS Done, is a mystery to me.
Because what he did 2, 3 seasons ago doesn’t matter for this season when Iowa has the best chance of making a run in the tournament in a long long time. His points and assists from previous seasons don’t count towards the scores of games this season.
I actually like JBO and believe he deserves start and play good minutes—especially when his shot is on—but I don’t think he should be playing 35 minutes per game when it isn’t. I mean I would imagine it is hard to put 100% effort into playing D when you don’t get much of a break. Why not give JoeT some more minutes to give JBO a rest and also helps keep our defensive intensity high all game? Or at least give JBO a break of running point and let him play off the ball and set himself up for some kick out 3s? That would even be a little rest on the offensive end for him.
A guy shooting 38% has the 13th best offensive rating in the country? Wow. Obviously getting the ball safely into the front court is the key in that ranking.
Beat me to it, well said. Why fran hasn’t played jbo more at off guard while cj has been injured is kind of a mystery.
Why ignore all the other aspects that these players have, that are way better than Joe? Bizarre.
Amen. I totally agree with what they said on the broadcast about a bad shot being almost as bad as a turnover so in that regard Connor deserves some scrutiny. JoeT plays half the minutes and scores the same amount as connor, is a better fg and ft shooter, has more assists per minute, and actually puts pressure on the other team on both sides of the ball.
Jbo has holes in his game but still has huge upside. Hell, he even averages slightly more rebounds per game than CM and he's a pg, not a 4. I really don't mean to rip connor as I know he's giving it his all, but it's simply not fair he's playing more than guys who do a lot more to help the team win. Yes, JT needs to cut down on the turnovers but they are no worse than connors bricks....or the 3 turnovers he had Thursday without getting yanked like Joe did after 1.
Jbo's defender cant sag down on luka like connors does and cm hasn't even been that good at feeding LG lately. Love his heart but it's fair to point out the minutes arent warranted. I'm sick of the nepotism, I don't think we have 6 losses if fran had more fair rotations
This is much more of an indictment against Fran than JoBo, but the 2 games that really frost my gonads are the Gonzaga and 1st Indiana game. With JoBo scoring 2 points and 4 turnovers the Zags were up 20+ until JT got in and cut it under 10. I truly believe that if JT had played 30 minutes the Hawks could have handed the Zags what might have been their only L of the year. Then when Indiana smothered JoBo nonstop and he went 0-9 from the field JT should have had 25+ minutes in that game and the Hawks probably win. Then I won’t even go into Fran’s brain fart at the end of the Gopher game to turn a W into an L. He is a head scratcher quite often
i believe the error in your thinking is that Gonzaga was way up late, and the mandate was give up a lay up, but do not foul, whixh is why JoeT was able to get to the rim with lay up after driving lay up.
in the course of any other type of scenario not , late and up big, you will see, as we have, how teams sag, sag, and sag off JoeT who will then force difficulty plays resulting in TOs
Fran is not the best coach in the country. He is not the best coach in the B1G. He is not the best coach the Hawks have had in their history.
But, I will take him as a better coach than anyone on this board. AINEC.
But, I will take him as a better coach than anyone on this board. AINEC.
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