John Kenney

[SoMplsHawkI]

We cannot recruit, we cannot retain quality players, we cannot change our philosophy on recruiting and where exactly is our program heading?

I guarantee this attrition is not normal.

In fact it is quite normal. Granted we are on the high side for the BT but not by much.
Following information covers 2002-2013 signing classes for Big 10 schools. Research from those signing classes found the number of players that failed to complete their eligibility at that school. Failures were counted for: non-qualifiers, players getting dismissed, failing school, transfers, just quit playing football or unknown reasons. If players left school early for NFL, I do not count them as failing to complete eligibility. Updated 3/3/2015

Big 10 Schools

Illinois
2014 Signed 17 - 01 (06%)
2013 Signed 25 - 06 (24%)
2012 Signed 19 - 06 (32%)
2011 Signed 27 - 14 (52%)
2010 Signed 21 - 08 (38%)
2009 Signed 22 - 12 (55%)
2008 Signed 28 - 10 (36%)
2007 Signed 22 - 14 (64%)
2006 Signed 27 - 06 (22%)
2005 Signed 20 - 11 (55%)
2004 Signed 24 - 15 (63%)
2003 Signed 26 - 10 (38%)
2002 Signed 23 - 09 (39%)

Totals Signed 301 – 122 (41%)

Indiana
2014 Signed 26 - 01 (04%)
2013 Signed 24 - 09 (38%)
2012 Signed 25 - 09 (36%)
2011 Signed 21 - 04 (19%)
2010 Signed 25 - 23 (92%)
2009 Signed 19 - 12 (63%)
2008 Signed 20 - 14 (70%)
2007 Signed 20 - 10 (50%)
2006 Signed 21 - 06 (29%)
2005 Signed 24 - 10 (42%
2004 Signed 26 - 14 (54%)
2003 Signed 25 - 09 (36%)
2002 Signed 21 - 10 (48%)

Totals Signed 297 – 131 (44%)

Iowa
2014 Signed 19 - 02 (11%)
2013 Signed 21 - 05 (24%)
2012 Signed 24 - 07 (29%)
2011 Signed 24 - 09 (28%)
2010 Signed 21 - 08 (38%)
2009 Signed 20 - 13 (65%)
2008 Signed 25 - 12 (48%)
2007 Signed 22 - 09 (41%)
2006 Signed 21 - 07 (33%)
2005 Signed 23 - 13 (57%)
2004 Signed 21 - 07 (33%)
2003 Signed 22 - 11 (50%)
2002 Signed 22 - 10 (45%)

Totals Signed 285 – 113 (40%)

Maryland
2014 Signed 17 - 01 (06%)
2013 Signed 22 - 01 (05%
2012 Signed 23 - 04 (17%)
2011 Signed 21 - 09 (43%)
2010 Signed 21 - 13 (62%)
2009 Signed 26 - 15 (58%)
2008 Signed 17 - 07 (41%)
2007 Signed 26 - 15 (58%)
2006 Signed 22 - 11 (50%)
2005 Signed 24 - 07 (29%)
2004 Signed 22 - 03 (14%)
2003 Signed 21 - 10 (48%)
2002 Signed 22 - 09 (41%)

Totals Signed 284 – 105 (37%)

Michigan
2014 Signed 16 - 01 (06%)
2013 Signed 27 - 02 (07%)
2012 Signed 25 - 01 (04%)
2011 Signed 20 - 11 (55%)
2010 Signed 27 - 20 (74%)
2009 Signed 22 - 09 (41%)
2008 Signed 25 - 12 (48%)
2007 Signed 20 - 08 (40%)
2006 Signed 19 - 07 (37%)
2005 Signed 23 - 12 (52%)
2004 Signed 22 - 09 (41%)
2003 Signed 17 - 07 (41%)
2002 Signed 20 - 07 (35%)

Totals Signed 283 – 106 (37%)

Michigan St
2014 Signed 22 - 00 (00%)
2013 Signed 18 - 02 (11%)
2012 Signed 18 - 03 (17%)
2011 Signed 22 - 04 (18%)
2010 Signed 21 - 06 (29%)
2009 Signed 23 - 07 (30%)
2008 Signed 21 - 13 (62%)
2007 Signed 23 - 10 (43%)
2006 Signed 25 - 12 (48%)
2005 Signed 26 - 06 (23%)
2004 Signed 31 - 19 (61%)
2003 Signed 21 - 12 (57%)
2002 Signed 22 - 09 (41%)

Totals Signed 293 – 103 (35%)

Minnesota
2014 Signed 20 - 02 (10%)
2013 Signed 19 - 03 (16%)
2012 Signed 27 - 04 (15%)
2011 Signed 23 - 06 (26%)
2010 Signed 25 - 15 (60%)
2009 Signed 20 - 11 (55%)
2008 Signed 29 - 11 (38%)
2007 Signed 24 - 14 (58%)
2006 Signed 22 - 12 (55%)
2005 Signed 20 - 12 (60%)
2004 Signed 24 - 15 (63%)
2003 Signed 27 - 11 (41%)
2002 Signed 24 - 11 (46%)

Totals Signed 304 – 127 (42%)

Nebraska
2014 Signed 24 - 04 (17%)
2013 Signed 25 - 07 (28%)
2012 Signed 17 - 04 (24%)
2011 Signed 19 - 06 (32%)
2010 Signed 22 - 11 (50%)
2009 Signed 20 - 08 (40%)
2008 Signed 28 - 12 (43%)
2007 Signed 27 - 12 (44%)
2006 Signed 22 - 06 (27%)
2005 Signed 30 - 11 (37%)
2004 Signed 20 - 05 (25%)
2003 Signed 19 - 09 (47%)
2002 Signed 21 - 11 (52%)

Totals Signed 294 – 106 (36%)

Northwestern
2014 Signed 15 - 00 (00%)
2013 Signed 19 - 01 (05%)
2012 Signed 21 - 03 (14%)
2011 Signed 17 - 00 (00%)
2010 Signed 17 - 04 (24%)
2009 Signed 18 - 12 (67%)
2008 Signed 20 - 08 (40%)
2007 Signed 19 - 02 (11%)
2006 Signed 17 - 04 (15%)
2005 Signed 20 - 04 (20%)
2004 Signed 14 - 05 (36%)
2003 Signed 22 - 05 (23%)
2002 Signed 22 - 09 (41%)

Totals Signed 241 – 57 (24%)

Ohio St
2014 Signed 23 - 01 (04%)
2013 Signed 24 - 03 (13%)
2012 Signed 25 - 09 (36%)
2011 Signed 24 - 07 (29%)
2010 Signed 19 - 11 (58%)
2009 Signed 25 - 11 (44%)
2008 Signed 20 - 07 (35%)
2007 Signed 15 - 04 (27%)
2006 Signed 20 - 04 (20%)
2005 Signed 18 - 03 (17%)
2004 Signed 24 - 08 (33%)
2003 Signed 15 - 09 (60%)
2002 Signed 25 - 06 (24%)

Totals Signed 277 – 83 (30%)

Penn St
2014 Signed 25 - 01 (04%)
2013 Signed 17 - 05 (29%)
2012 Signed 20 - 05 (25%)
2011 Signed 16 - 05 (31%)
2010 Signed 20 - 14 (70%)
2009 Signed 27 - 15 (56%)
2008 Signed 14 - 04 (29%)
2007 Signed 21 - 06 (29%)
2006 Signed 24 - 10 (42%)
2005 Signed 19 - 08 (42%)
2004 Signed 25 - 11 (44%)
2003 Signed 11 - 04 (36%)
2002 Signed 22 - 08 (36%)

Totals Signed 261 – 96 (37%)

Purdue
2014 Signed 17 - 02 (12%)
2013 Signed 23 - 03 (13%)
2012 Signed 26 - 05 (19%)
2011 Signed 15 - 04 (27%)
2010 Signed 23 - 09 (39%)
2009 Signed 20 - 07 (35%)
2008 Signed 26 - 09 (35%)
2007 Signed 19 - 09 (47%)
2006 Signed 27 - 09 (33%)
2005 Signed 21 - 10 (48%)
2004 Signed 27 - 10 (37%)
2003 Signed 25 - 15 (60%)
2002 Signed 25 - 09 (36%)

Totals Signed 294 – 100 (34%)

Rutgers
2014 Signed 25 - 01 (04%)
2013 Signed 22 - 05 (23%)
2012 Signed 19 - 04 (21%)
2011 Signed 24 - 12 (50%)
2010 Signed 24 - 10 (42%)
2009 Signed 23 - 10 (43%)
2008 Signed 20 - 08 (40%)
2007 Signed 23 - 10 (43%)
2006 Signed 25 - 11 (44%)
2005 Signed 26 - 12 (46%)
2004 Signed 23 - 11 (48%)
2003 Signed 25 - 12 (48%)
2002 Signed 24 - 07 (29%)

Totals Signed 303 – 113 (37%)

Wisconsin
2014 Signed 25 - 03 (12%)
2013 Signed 17 - 05 (29%)
2012 Signed 12 - 05 (42%)
2011 Signed 20 - 03 (15%)
2010 Signed 24 - 13 (54%)
2009 Signed 21 - 09 (43%)
2008 Signed 24 - 10 (42%)
2007 Signed 19 - 09 (50%)
2006 Signed 23 - 11 (48%)
2005 Signed 23 - 08 (35%)
2004 Signed 23 - 10 (43%)
2003 Signed 22 - 08 (36%)
2002 Signed 25 - 10 (40%)

Totals Signed 278 – 104 (37%)


Big 10 Totals Signed 3,995 – 1,466 (37%)

 

[ThatsFootball]

In fact it is quite normal. Granted we are on the high side for the BT but not by much.
Following information covers 2002-2013 signing classes for Big 10 schools. Research from those signing classes found the number of players that failed to complete their eligibility at that school. Failures were counted for: non-qualifiers, players getting dismissed, failing school, transfers, just quit playing football or unknown reasons. If players left school early for NFL, I do not count them as failing to complete eligibility. Updated 3/3/2015

Big 10 Schools

Illinois
Totals Signed 301 – 122 (41%)

Indiana
Totals Signed 297 – 131 (44%)

Iowa
Totals Signed 285 – 113 (40%)

Maryland
Totals Signed 284 – 105 (37%)

Michigan
Totals Signed 283 – 106 (37%)

Michigan St
Totals Signed 293 – 103 (35%)

Minnesota
Totals Signed 304 – 127 (42%)

Nebraska
Totals Signed 294 – 106 (36%)

Northwestern
Totals Signed 241 – 57 (24%)

Ohio St
Totals Signed 277 – 83 (30%)

Penn St
Totals Signed 261 – 96 (37%)

Purdue
Totals Signed 294 – 100 (34%)

Rutgers
Totals Signed 303 – 113 (37%)

Wisconsin
Totals Signed 278 – 104 (37%)


Big 10 Totals Signed 3,995 – 1,466 (37%)

You're right, we are on the high side and from your stats it looks like we are in the great company of Illinois, Indiana, and Minnesota (somehow Purdue escaped the higher number). What do those wonderful schools all have in common? They have sucked for the majority of the years you have analyzed.

Furthermore, could you discuss how the numbers might be skewed by all other schools having coaching changes during the period while Iowa has not?

These numbers don't bode well for a team our coach describes as "developmental". You would think the coaching staff would strive to have the lowest transfer rate in conference, no?

 

[Calhill]

You're right, we are on the high side and from your stats it looks like we are in the great company of Illinois, Indiana, and Minnesota (somehow Purdue escaped the higher number). What do those wonderful schools all have in common? They have sucked for the majority of the years you have analyzed.

Furthermore, could you discuss how the numbers might be skewed by all other schools having coaching changes during the period while Iowa has not?

These numbers don't bode well for a team our coach describes as "developmental". You would think the coaching staff would strive to have the lowest transfer rate in conference, no?

Bingo! Also the kids leaving are all from out of state and skill players.

 

[HRiscool]

That class has lost a ton. They lost Spearman, Rucker, Kenny and Goebel three of the highest ranked recruits of that class. They have also lost Willies, Shimonek, and AJ Jones from that class and potentially Welsh because no one knows what is going on there. Powell already graduated so taking him out they have lost 1/3 of the class.

This is factually impossible. You don't lose players at this rate with a high integrity coach.

 

[SoMplsHawkI]

You're right, we are on the high side and from your stats it looks like we are in the great company of Illinois, Indiana, and Minnesota (somehow Purdue escaped the higher number). What do those wonderful schools all have in common? They have sucked for the majority of the years you have analyzed.

Furthermore, could you discuss how the numbers might be skewed by all other schools having coaching changes during the period while Iowa has not?

These numbers don't bode well for a team our coach describes as "developmental". You would think the coaching staff would strive to have the lowest transfer rate in conference, no?

You're right, we are on the high side and from your stats it looks like we are in the great company of Illinois, Indiana, and Minnesota (somehow Purdue escaped the higher number). What do those wonderful schools all have in common? They have sucked for the majority of the years you have analyzed.
So how do you account for Purdue? Or Northwestern for that matter?

Furthermore, could you discuss how the numbers might be skewed by all other schools having coaching changes during the period while Iowa has not?
How do you account for the Bielema years at Wisconsin? 42% attrition and 3 Rose Bowl appearances.
2012 Signed 12 - 05 (42%)
2011 Signed 20 - 03 (15%)
2010 Signed 24 - 13 (54%)
2009 Signed 21 - 09 (43%)
2008 Signed 24 - 10 (42%)
2007 Signed 19 - 09 (50%)
2006 Signed 23 - 11 (48%)

These numbers don't bode well for a team our coach describes as "developmental". You would think the coaching staff would strive to have the lowest transfer rate in conference, no?
I think attrition isn't good for any program.

 

[ThatsFootball]

You're right, we are on the high side and from your stats it looks like we are in the great company of Illinois, Indiana, and Minnesota (somehow Purdue escaped the higher number). What do those wonderful schools all have in common? They have sucked for the majority of the years you have analyzed.
So how do you account for Purdue? Or Northwestern for that matter?

Furthermore, could you discuss how the numbers might be skewed by all other schools having coaching changes during the period while Iowa has not?
How do you account for the Bielema years at Wisconsin? 42% attrition and 3 Rose Bowl appearances.
2012 Signed 12 - 05 (42%)
2011 Signed 20 - 03 (15%)
2010 Signed 24 - 13 (54%)
2009 Signed 21 - 09 (43%)
2008 Signed 24 - 10 (42%)
2007 Signed 19 - 09 (50%)
2006 Signed 23 - 11 (48%)

These numbers don't bode well for a team our coach describes as "developmental". You would think the coaching staff would strive to have the lowest transfer rate in conference, no?
I think attrition isn't good for any program.

I would say that the Purdue and Wisconsin examples are outliers. I put more stock into the group of Minn, Indiana, and Illinois being above 40% than Purdue not being above 40%. Northwestern is a different animal all together as the private school/academics aspect plays a major role in what goes on there. Additionally, I think the Northwestern example does a great job illustrating my point about coaching turnover effecting transfer rates (except for Iowa, of course).

 

[BRANDONJ8]

we will be one over when marshall koehn gets put on scholarship.

 

[David1979]

At least after next year there won't be two punters on scholarship

 

[SoMplsHawkI]

I would say that the Purdue and Wisconsin examples are outliers. I put more stock into the group of Minn, Indiana, and Illinois being above 40% than Purdue not being above 40%. Northwestern is a different animal all together as the private school/academics aspect plays a major role in what goes on there. Additionally, I think the Northwestern example does a great job illustrating my point about coaching turnover effecting transfer rates (except for Iowa, of course).

Northwestern is a different animal all together as the private school/academics aspect plays a major role in what goes on there.
I checked the ACC (also 37% attrition rate) which has at least 4 private universities:
Syracuse - 41% attrition
Boston College - 35% "
Duke - 31% "
Wake Forest - 32% "

So mostly less than average but not by nearly as wide a margin as Northwestern.

Additionally, I think the Northwestern example does a great job illustrating my point about coaching turnover effecting transfer rates (except for Iowa, of course).
Let's not forget that Iowa had a significant turnover in position coaches a couple years back including OC and DC. It's true that Phil Parker stayed on but he's the exception rather than the rule.

I want to make one final point before I quit this thread for good - For 11 years since 2002 there hasn't been a year when Iowa hasn't lost at least 7 players to attrition and there have been some pretty successful seasons in that time. I don't think that attrition is a problem per se. I think attrition is the nature of the beast.

 

[ThatsFootball]

Northwestern is a different animal all together as the private school/academics aspect plays a major role in what goes on there.
I checked the ACC (also 37% attrition rate) which has at least 4 private universities:
Syracuse - 41% attrition
Boston College - 35% "
Duke - 31% "
Wake Forest - 32% "

So mostly less than average but not by nearly as wide a margin as Northwestern.

Additionally, I think the Northwestern example does a great job illustrating my point about coaching turnover effecting transfer rates (except for Iowa, of course).
Let's not forget that Iowa had a significant turnover in position coaches a couple years back including OC and DC. It's true that Phil Parker stayed on but he's the exception rather than the rule.

I want to make one final point before I quit this thread for good - For 11 years since 2002 there hasn't been a year when Iowa hasn't lost at least 7 players to attrition and there have been some pretty successful seasons in that time. I don't think that attrition is a problem per se. I think attrition is the nature of the beast.

"So mostly less than average". Yep, thanks for proving my point. Add in the lack of coaching turnover at NW and I think it looks pretty much in line.

"Let's not forget that Iowa had a significant turnover in position coaches a couple years back including OC and DC." Yep, lets also not forget that programs who lose head coaches also lose OCs and DCs. Go back up and look at Iowa's stats you posted and try not to ignore the fact Iowa has had less turnover since getting new assistant coaches than they had prior. One constant: Kirk.

 

[bouma1415]

1. Losing backup players can be a good thing. Kenny got moved back to LB because you can get unlimited numbers of FB's to walk on for a program. He wasn't talented enough at LB. He moved on. Good thing.
2. OSU may not lose as many backup players because they know the starter may enter the draft early and open a spot. They also like practicing against good competition to improve their skills. And they like the greater possibility of playing for championships. Also, a higher percentage of players come from the state of Ohio. Less home state players transfer than out of state players.
3. Being a developmental program, you reach on some recruits. It's a good thing when they walk away, especially if they don't have enough talent to be a starter by year 3. You don't build championship teams by having backups who are not starter material in the future.
4. If you look at the most recent transfers, Kenny's "star" rating was too high (it happens), Same with Spearman. Rucker, Goebel, and Shimonek left because they saw more talent in front of them. They all want to play now.
5. Every kid in high school thinks he good enough to overtake any and everyone. Then when they get there and find out they aren't Superman, they look for opportunities that fits their talent better. It happens, not going to change. Get over it.

 

[HRiscool]

1. Losing backup players can be a good thing. Kenny got moved back to LB because you can get unlimited numbers of FB's to walk on for a program. He wasn't talented enough at LB. He moved on. Good thing.
2. OSU may not lose as many backup players because they know the starter may enter the draft early and open a spot. They also like practicing against good competition to improve their skills. And they like the greater possibility of playing for championships. Also, a higher percentage of players come from the state of Ohio. Less home state players transfer than out of state players.
3. Being a developmental program, you reach on some recruits. It's a good thing when they walk away, especially if they don't have enough talent to be a starter by year 3. You don't build championship teams by having backups who are not starter material in the future.
4. If you look at the most recent transfers, Kenny's "star" rating was too high (it happens), Same with Spearman. Rucker, Goebel, and Shimonek left because they saw more talent in front of them. They all want to play now.
5. Every kid in high school thinks he good enough to overtake any and everyone. Then when they get there and find out they aren't Superman, they look for opportunities that fits their talent better. It happens, not going to change. Get over it.

Losing players IS a good thing

Losing games is also a good thing

Losing fans in the stands is also a good thing

Losing a coach . . . ever . . . well why would anyone even think something stupid like that? For the sake of future fans we need to fund a note-machine audio-animatronic KF to roam the sidelines for all eternity.

 

[leiserom]

James Cleveland got kicked off team when he and another player were found with weed and prescription drugs(no prescription) in their dorm room. His HS coach(Drew Tates father) got him on at Trinity Valley JC in Athens TX where he set world on fire. UH signed him. I watched him play the last two years at UH. His mother was around to keep him in line. They had a bye week before they played MS State. Cleveland was captain but cut a practice during the bye week. Sumlin suspended for that game. Was not drafted. Signed as a FA with the Cowboys and cut. Iowa lost him but given his behavior not surprising. He fit better in Sumlins offense anyway but screwed up there too.

Saw him play at Iowa,UH and in HS. Wasted a lot of his talent. Maybe he is playing arena ball now. I heard a year ago he was just hanging out in Baytown.