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Justice Department appeals Texas abortion pill ruling

cigaretteman

HR King
May 29, 2001
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The Justice Department on Monday appealed a Texas judge’s decision that would block access to a key abortion drug across the country, arguing that the challengers had no right to file the lawsuit since they were not personally harmed by the abortion pill.

The appeal, filed in the right-leaning U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit, landed less than one business day after Judge Matthew Kascmaryk on Friday evening ordered the Federal Drug Administration to revoke its approval of mifepristone — one of the two medications used in more than half of all abortions in the United States.

Kascmaryk had said his ruling would not take effect until this Friday, giving the Biden administration time to appeal before the drug could be pulled from the marketplace. In its filing Monday, the government asked the 5th Circuit judges to keep Kascmaryk’s order on hold until the appeal is decided.



Kacsmaryk’s ruling, Justice Department lawyers said, had “upended decades of reliance by blocking FDA’s approval of mifepristone and depriving patients of access to this safe and effective treatment, based on the court’s own misguided assessment of the drug’s safety.”
The government asked the appeals court to issue its decision on pausing Kacsmaryk’s order by Thursday at noon.
If the appeals court does not pause, or stay, the order while the appeal is decided, or is slow in making that decision, the Justice Department could go directly to the U.S. Supreme Court in an effort to keep mifepristone available for women seeking to terminate their pregnancies. The high court will almost certainly hear the case eventually, either before or after the 5th Circuit rules.

The Justice Department and the company that makes mifepristone said in their appeal that the antiabortion groups challenging the drug lack sufficient legal grounds or standing to proceed with their lawsuit.


To establish standing, the groups have to demonstrate that they face a risk of injury. The Justice Department characterized as speculative the doctors’ claims that they are directly harmed because their patients claim to have experienced complications from the medication. Mifepristone was approved 23 years ago after clinical trials including thousands of pregnant patients showed a low rate of complications.
“Plaintiffs lack standing to challenge FDA’s approval of a drug they neither take nor prescribe; their challenge to FDA actions dating back to 2000 is manifestly untimely; and they have provided no basis for second-guessing FDA’s scientific judgment,” the appeal said.
In a divided nation, dueling decisions on the abortion pill
Both antiabortion and abortion rights advocates view Texas lawsuit as a landmark case that would shape abortion access in the country and could ultimately present Supreme Court justices with their biggest test on the issue since their decision in June to overturn the guarantee of abortion rights provided by Roe v. Wade.



In November, conservative groups filed a lawsuit in Kascmaryk’s Amarillo, Tex., courthouse seeking to reverse the FDA’s approval of mifepristone as safe and effective, including in states where abortion rights are protected.
Kascmaryk, a lifelong antiabortion advocate is the sole judge in his district and has been a go-to judge for conservatives seeking to challenge Biden administration policies.
In a four-hour hearing last month, the attorneys for the conservative group argued that the pill is unsafe — a claim that has been sharply refuted by medical experts — and that the FDA did not follow proper protocol when approving its use.
The government’s attorneys argued that the scientific evidence has repeatedly proven mifepristone to be safe and effective since the FDA approved its use more than 20 years ago.



Both groups acknowledged in the hearing that there is no precedent for a court to order the suspension of a long-approved medication.
Separately, a group of Democratic state attorneys general filed a lawsuit in February in Washington state, seeking to expand access to mifepristone.
Shortly after Kasmaryk issued his ruling on Friday, Judge Thomas O. Rice delivered his ruling in the Washington state case, ordering the the FDA to preserve “the status quo” and retain access to the abortion medication in the 17 states — along with D.C. — that filed the lawsuit.
Even the Justice Department was somewhat unclear about the path forward, given the two conflicting rulings. On Monday, the Justice Department asked the judge in the Washington state case for clarification for how to reconcile the contradictory opinions.

 
Americans should get ready for a bunch more sh**ty rulings from Kacsmaryk. As I recall he struggled to get approved by a Republican controlled Senate. He is going to be a one judge wrecking ball down in Amarillo. Every sh**ty, Christian Sharia Law goof ball case is going to be filed in his court. The guy hates gay people, he's proven that already. Now he's showing us that he thinks women need their hands held when they decide on their health care, and he's decided that one judge can overrule the FDA when they use science to approve a drug. If I am a pharmaceutical company I am looking around at who to donate to in 2024.
FYI, Kacsmaryk is in his 40s, so he'll be making sh**ty rulings for decades.
 
Appears Kacsmaryk overstepped. The FDA has made this political and not about safety, but Kacsmaryk's job is to follow the law, and shouldn't be second guessing the FDA. It's pretty clear judicial overreach IMO.
I gotta give you a like. I wish I could give you half a like, because you are waaaaaaaay off base about the FDA making this political. The FDA spends years approving drugs. This is nothing more than an activist judge applying his religion to make law.
 
Appears Kacsmaryk overstepped. The FDA has made this political and not about safety, but Kacsmaryk's job is to follow the law, and shouldn't be second guessing the FDA. It's pretty clear judicial overreach IMO.

Wait. The FDA has made the authorization of Mifepristone political? For realz?

I think we could argue that they made the approval of Viagra for the treatment of ED a bit political and as a courtesy of big pharma, but this?
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I gotta give you a like. I wish I could give you half a like, because you are waaaaaaaay off base about the FDA making this political. The FDA spends years approving drugs. This is nothing more than an activist judge applying his religion to make law.
I posted that because you're right, the FDA spends years approving drugs. While it's true that many, many drugs go from prescription to OTC, I'm pretty sure the timing of how the FDA handled this drug is political.
 
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I posted that because you're right, the FDA spends years approving drugs. While it's true that many, many drugs go from prescription to OTC, I'm pretty sure the timing of how the FDA handled this drug is political.
What? It was approved before Roe v. Wade was overturned if that is what you are getting at.

Mifepristone was developed in 1980 and came into use in France in 1987. It became available in the United States in 2000. It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines. Mifepristone was approved by Health Canada in 2015 and became available in Canada in January 2017.
 
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What? It was approved before Roe v. Wade was overturned if that is what you are getting at.

Mifepristone was developed in 1980 and came into use in France in 1987. It became available in the United States in 2000. It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines. Mifepristone was approved by Health Canada in 2015 and became available in Canada in January 2017.
Please learn to comprehend. I didn't say the FDA hadn't approved it. I said the FDA changed how this drug was handled.

I'm sure whenever you see a post of mine you immediately feel compelled to read it the way you want, just so you can argue. Are you related to Joes Place?
 
Please learn to comprehend. I didn't say the FDA hadn't approved it. I said the FDA changed how this drug was handled.

I'm sure whenever you see a post of mine you immediately feel compelled to read it the way you want, just so you can argue. Are you related to Joes Place?
You: "The FDA has made this political and not about safety,"

You post a lot of blatant falsehoods. And usually double-down. I find it hilarious.
 
Please learn to comprehend. I didn't say the FDA hadn't approved it. I said the FDA changed how this drug was handled.

I'm sure whenever you see a post of mine you immediately feel compelled to read it the way you want, just so you can argue. Are you related to Joes Place?

What part of the original approval process was political? Be specific.

When the FDA initially approved mifepristone, it did so under a provision called “Subpart H,” a set of regulations implemented to expedite the approval of “new drug products that have been studied for their safety and effectiveness in treating serious or life-threatening illnesses,” like those to used treat HIV. The FDA approval process for mifepristone, however, was not expedited, as it was approved more than four years after the original application was filed. In the case of mifepristone, Subpart H was originally used to restrict the dispensing to prescribers who agreed to dispense it in certain health care settings, by or under the supervision of a qualified physician who attested to the ability to accurately date pregnancies and diagnose ectopic pregnancies. The drug was not available for distribution at retail pharmacies.
 
Appears Kacsmaryk overstepped. The FDA has made this political and not about safety, but Kacsmaryk's job is to follow the law, and shouldn't be second guessing the FDA. It's pretty clear judicial overreach IMO.
It is quite possible that there was political pressure to approve, but that is beside the point. There was no evidence of political pressure presented to this judge. The followed an established procedure in approving the drug then went searching for a reason to put in front of an activist judge so he could make a political statement.

The plaintiffs have zero standing in this. Using the same logic manufactured to gain standing, a woman could challenge the approval of Viagra because she might be raped. Or a rape victim advocate could challenge because their clients might be raped.

There’s only one side making this political and that’s the right. The law is entirely on the side of the FDA and the feds. Look at the anti abortion language he used in his opinion. It was all about politics From Him.
 
Americans should get ready for a bunch more sh**ty rulings from Kacsmaryk. As I recall he struggled to get approved by a Republican controlled Senate. He is going to be a one judge wrecking ball down in Amarillo. Every sh**ty, Christian Sharia Law goof ball case is going to be filed in his court. The guy hates gay people, he's proven that already. Now he's showing us that he thinks women need their hands held when they decide on their health care, and he's decided that one judge can overrule the FDA when they use science to approve a drug. If I am a pharmaceutical company I am looking around at who to donate to in 2024.
FYI, Kacsmaryk is in his 40s, so he'll be making sh**ty rulings for decades.
Here’s the thing. There is very much a time and place for arguments like those made in this case: in law review articles, by law professors. But we don’t appoint and confirm judges to be law professors.

The Amarillo district issue needs to be fixed. Beyond that, the one redeeming thing I will say about the judge is that, for as wrongly activist as his rulings are for a district judge, he is at least good enough to stay the effective date of most of his rulings to allow the parties to appeal and seek a further stay.
 
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I gotta give you a like. I wish I could give you half a like, because you are waaaaaaaay off base about the FDA making this political. The FDA spends years approving drugs. This is nothing more than an activist judge applying his religion to make law.
YeH, I’m kinda with you on this one. Fda, like the judge, has to respond to the cases as they are filed. If the g made a mistake here, it was sending some chickenshit pussy Ivy League clown from main justice to argue the motion for transfer of the case. In a case like this, you move for recusal for bias and you have the local ausa (an actual litigator who’s been in a courtroom) say hell yes I think I won’t get a fair shake from you. But that is not what happened in the motion.
 
I posted that because you're right, the FDA spends years approving drugs. While it's true that many, many drugs go from prescription to OTC, I'm pretty sure the timing of how the FDA handled this drug is political.
This is actually correct. And by doing so, the agency provided a means for a judge to make this about process rather than about chevron substantive deference (such as it is these days).
 
This is actually correct. And by doing so, the agency provided a means for a judge to make this about process rather than about chevron substantive deference (such as it is these days).

I don’t understand this timing argument. It was approved under the Clinton administration - months before the 2000 election. The drug had been studied meticulously for years - from the first approval of use in France in the late 1980s.

It took 54 months to obtain approval in the U.S. The average time for approval of FDA medications in 15.6 months.

It’s a spurious claim. In laymen’s terms: it’s complete horseshit. The plaintiffs never should have been recognized as having standing and their arguments never should have seen the light of day.
 
I don’t understand this timing argument. It was approved under the Clinton administration - months before the 2000 election. The drug had been studied meticulously for years - from the first approval of use in France in the late 1980s.

It took 54 months to obtain approval in the U.S. The average time for approval of FDA medications in 15.6 months.

It’s a spurious claim. In laymen’s terms: it’s complete horseshit. The plaintiffs never should have been recognized as having standing and their arguments never should have seen the light of day.
The standing arguments are another thing entirely. I think much of the timing discussion is around all issues, where the opinion is also dubious (though maybe slightly less so). Just really bad. As to the approval, you had changes to the conditions for admin which muddy the record here and, as noted, provide process argument opportunities
 
The standing arguments are another thing entirely. I think much of the timing discussion is around all issues, where the opinion is also dubious (though maybe slightly less so). Just really bad. As to the approval, you had changes to the conditions for admin which muddy the record here and, as noted, provide process argument opportunities
Sorry if you already posted but what are the changes to the conditions you refer to?
 
Sorry if you already posted but what are the changes to the conditions you refer to?
In very lay terms (if not technically), essentially rx to otc. In addition, the whole “long term mental health issue” is a classic apa gambit. You always argue that the agency failed to consider an important aspect of the problem, because that’s a process thing you don’t even have to show the agency was substantively wrong. But the thing is, if safety data around that were so horrific, we’d have heard about it long ago
 
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The standing arguments are another thing entirely. I think much of the timing discussion is around all issues, where the opinion is also dubious (though maybe slightly less so). Just really bad. As to the approval, you had changes to the conditions for admin which muddy the record here and, as noted, provide process argument opportunities

The changing of conditions (approval under subpart H) actually imposed stricter conditions on the medication. The ability to dispense was severely limited and restricted.

If anyone wants to gets educated:
 
In very lay terms (if not technically), essentially rx to otc. In addition, the whole “long term mental health issue” is a classic apa gambit. You always argue that the agency failed to consider an important aspect of the problem, because that’s a process thing you don’t even have to show the agency was substantively wrong. But the thing is, if safety data around that were so horrific, we’d have heard about it long ago

It absolutely WAS NOT Rx to OTC. Never.

The more recent news about the dispensing process has been about retail pharmacies being able to dispense. But always with a doctor’s prescription. That’s the recent news about AG Bird - and other MAGA state’s attorney generals - threatening Walgreens, CVS, and the like.

This is complete bullshit. It was never authorized under the guise of Rx-to-OTC.
 
It absolutely WAS NOT Rx to OTC. Never.

The more recent news about the dispensing process has been about retail pharmacies being able to dispense. But always with a doctor’s prescription. That’s the recent news about AG Bird - and other MAGA state’s attorney generals - threatening Walgreens, CVS, and the like.

This is complete bullshit. It was never authorized under the guise of Rx-to-OTC.
Which is why I said “in very lay terms”
 
Which is why I said “in very lay terms”

Your layman’s term is not even close to accurately describing the original authorization process or what’s been occurring with the medication more recently. Rx-to-OTC authorization is a completely different animal - and would never be a path for mifepristone.

The change in dispensing authorization doesn’t supersede the need for a doctor’s prescription.
 
Your layman’s term is not even close to accurately describing the original authorization process or what’s been occurring with the medication more recently. Rx-to-OTC authorization is a completely different animal - and would never be a path for mifepristone.

The change in dispensing authorization doesn’t supersede the need for a doctor’s prescription.
Easy there big fella. Not trying to hide any balls here, much less that this decision was good.
 
Your layman’s term is not even close to accurately describing the original authorization process or what’s been occurring with the medication more recently. Rx-to-OTC authorization is a completely different animal - and would never be a path for mifepristone.

The change in dispensing authorization doesn’t supersede the need for a doctor’s prescription.
Allow me to just say the 5cir did a lot better job at explaining why the 2016 changes opened up apa process vulnerabilities/ arguments than I did.

I still think they’re being awfully generous on standing.
 
Allow me to just say the 5cir did a lot better job at explaining why the 2016 changes opened up apa process vulnerabilities/ arguments than I did.

I still think they’re being awfully generous on standing.

When the judiciary allows an act from the 1800’s (Comstock Act) to flavor their ruling - we have a problem.

Absolutely unreal that Mifepristone cannot be mailed even to/in states where abortion remains legal. And I fully expect that the SC won’t touch the 5th Circuit ruling so we’re effectively down to a 7 week national abortion ban and no medication by mail.

Judiciary fiat flavored with Christo Fascism is absolutely nuts. And yet here we are.
 
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This is actually correct. And by doing so, the agency provided a means for a judge to make this about process rather than about chevron substantive deference (such as it is these days).

I guess I’m still not understanding what about the FDAs actions approving this drug was political.

When the judiciary allows an act from the 1800’s (Comstock Act) to flavor their ruling - we have a problem.

Absolutely unreal that Mifepristone cannot be mailed even to/in states where abortion remains legal. And I fully expect that the SC won’t touch the 5th Circuit ruling so we’re effectively down to a 7 week national abortion ban and no medication by mail.

Judiciary fiat flavored with Christo Fascism is absolutely nuts. And yet here we are.

Have long believed that even republicans know they can’t get a national abortion ban thru; even in many conservative states it’s proven to be difficult. So instead they’re working to put in so many restrictions that it becomes EFFECTIVELY a national ban.

It honestly doesn’t strike me as dissimilar from the pro-separate but equal argument.
 
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When the judiciary allows an act from the 1800’s (Comstock Act) to flavor their ruling - we have a problem.

Absolutely unreal that Mifepristone cannot be mailed even to/in states where abortion remains legal. And I fully expect that the SC won’t touch the 5th Circuit ruling so we’re effectively down to a 7 week national abortion ban and no medication by mail.

Judiciary fiat flavored with Christo Fascism is absolutely nuts. And yet here we are.
Well, I'm defiintely not sure I'd agree with that first statement as a general principle, and frankly, I thought 5Cir's discussion of Comstock was rightfully diminished as a near afterthought relative to the DCT ruling.
 
Well, I'm defiintely not sure I'd agree with that first statement as a general principle, and frankly, I thought 5Cir's discussion of Comstock was rightfully diminished as a near afterthought relative to the DCT ruling.

If the Comstock Act can be used as justification to limit the mailing of mifepristone - then I damn well want it applied equally to Viagra and Cialis.

Mailing boner drugs certainly violates that Act each and every time one is placed in the mail.

That’s the slippery slope we’re under. And - of course - the courts would never make such a ruling. Because: men.

That’s where the hypocrisy and the lack of faith in our judicial institutions stems from. We are picking and choosing what selective parts of our history (or “tradition”) to apply to justify control of women and create a de facto Christo Fascist nation. In Dobbs, we legit had justices referring to the 1600s. Now we’re leaning in on acts from the 1880s.
 
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Well, I'm defiintely not sure I'd agree with that first statement as a general principle, and frankly, I thought 5Cir's discussion of Comstock was rightfully diminished as a near afterthought relative to the DCT ruling.
You guys argue that law type stuff. I think it's shocking how willfully ignorant of science that Kacsmaryk was in his ruling. He relied upon highly biased opinions lacking rigorous scientific backing. He appears to have gone off of some anonymous BS, too.
The precedent is horrible. It's even more horrible given how selective the zealots will be in exploiting this ruling, and any further rulings from the full circuit court, or the SCOTUS. The disdain for science, and the deference to experts is troubling. Lawyers are not experts in all things. When they believe they know better than others I worry.
 
If the Comstock Act can be used as justification to limit the mailing of mifepristone - then I damn well want it applied equally to Viagra and Cialis.

Mailing boner drugs certainly violates that Act each and every time one is placed in the mail.

That’s the slippery slope we’re under. And - of course - the courts would never make such a ruling. Because: men.

That’s where the hypocrisy and the lack of faith in our judicial institutions stems from. We are picking and choosing what selective parts of our history (or “tradition”) to apply to justify control of women and create a de facto Christo Fascist nation. In Dobbs, we legit had justices referring to the 1600s. Now we’re leaning in on acts from the 1880s.
1. When a statute is passed is entirely irrelevant, unless you don’t like, say, 42 usc 1981-88.
2. As to the historical references in dobbs (and fwiw, nys):
A. It is not exactly novel jurisprudence that if you insist on unstated/atextual substantive due process rights, they are defined by referenced by our history and tradition, which happens to be an Anglo common law history, and
B. In both cases, the court was quite transparent that all history is not created equal. So while the older stuff may provide context, it is the contemporaneous history that is of greatest weight when trying to discern meaning.

Others have denigrated lawyers/judges making scientific assessments. Fair enough. We don’t have a monopoly on intelligence. And frankly, I agree that the at the substantive decision made by the agency here is at least strong enough to warrant some sort of deference, whether that’s under chevron or some other standard.

But, we lawyers are actually not too bad at process. Honestly, it may be the only thing we’re good at. And that’s important - very important actually - if unelected and politically unaccountable people are going to be given significant decision making power with the force of law behind it. And let’s be honest, there’s at least a little weirdness to the process here. I actually have a huge degree of tolerance for decisions made by good process.

3 try using phrases like “Christo fascist” a little less often. It’s a tell not only as to basic bias, but also for latent religious bigotry.
 
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1. When a statute is passed is entirely irrelevant, unless you don’t like, say, 42 usc 1981-88.
2. As to the historical references in dobbs (and fwiw, nys):
A. It is not exactly novel jurisprudence that if you insist on unstated/atextual substantive due process rights, they are defined by referenced by our history and tradition, which happens to be an Anglo common law history, and
B. In both cases, the court was quite transparent that all history is not created equal. So while the older stuff may provide context, it is the contemporaneous history that is of greatest weight when trying to discern meaning.

Others have denigrated lawyers/judges making scientific assessments. Fair enough. We don’t have a monopoly on intelligence. And frankly, I agree that the at the substantive decision made by the agency here is at least strong enough to warrant some sort of deference, whether that’s under chevron or some other standard.

But, we lawyers are actually not too bad at process. Honestly, it may be the only thing we’re good at. And that’s important - very important actually - if unelected and politically unaccountable people are going to be given significant decision making power with the force of law behind it. And let’s be honest, there’s at least a little weirdness to the process here. I actually have a huge degree of tolerance for decisions made by good process.

3 try using phrases like “Christo fascist” a little less often. It’s a tell not only as to basic bias, but also for latent religious bigotry.

I’ll let go of my latent religious bigotry when the courts let go of their clear religious bias that is flavoring their decisions.

🤡
 
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