Kansas State vs. Iowa Comparison

[Macbride79]

As Kansas State advanced to the Sweet 16, I'm trying to see what advantages they have over Iowa for men's basketball

1) College town atmosphere -- I would certainly rate Iowa City over Manhattan (the "little apple")
2) State population -- Iowa has a greater population than Kansas
3) Basketball talent in the state -- Advantage to the state of Iowa
4) Access to urban areas -- Iowa is closer to Chicago and St. Louis. K-State is closer to Kansas City
5) Competition in state -- while Iowa State has had a stronger program than Iowa in 21st century, K-State is the little brother to a true college blue blood (Kansas)
Secondary competition in state -- Wichita State has made it to a Final Four in the 21st century, ahead of UNI who has made it to a Sweet 16
6) Conference difficulty -- I will say this varies year to year, but overall comparable in the 21st century between Big 12 and Big 10
7) Big money donors -- Hard to see that Iowa is at a major financial disadvantage versus K-State
8) Facilities -- K-State opened a new practice facility in 2012, Iowa opened a new practice facility in around the same time (in looking it up on Iowa website, it says renovation completed in 2011) -- call that a wash

Sweet 16s in 21st century -- 3 KSU, 0 Iowa
Elite 8s in 21st century 2 KSU (could be three if winning next game vs MSU), 0 Iowa

For some reason, Bruce Weber made the Elite 8 in 2018, but was not given a lifetime contract for that achievement. KSU coach is in his first year.

Curious for input as to the advantages that K-State has over Iowa that have resulted in the considerably better NCAA tournament success the Wildcats have had compared to the Hawkeyes in the 21st century.

 

[Steamboat529529]

Guards and they never hired Todd Lickliter.

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

Manhattan is closer to KC than we are to Chicago or any other “big” city.
And not trying to be a dick. Cuz yeah, it’s frustrating when you look at what Tang has done with his roster in his first year. Their PG is stupid fast.

 

[CookyMonster]

Better home court environment, better recent (20 yr) history, easier to enroll bad students.

 

[StormHawk42]

Whenever Barta is (hopefully) shitcanned, the first call should be to Gene Taylor.

 

[QChawks]

I’ve always thought KSU was a good comparison to Iowa. The little apple is a cool college town but it’s in the middle of nowhere. It all comes down to recruiting and coaching.

 

[joelbc1]

I’ve always thought KSU was a good comparison to Iowa. The little apple is a cool college town but it’s in the middle of nowhere. It all comes down to recruiting and coaching.

Bill Snyder did very very well there.....bring his "Iowa way" there.....legitimately, KSU has had a pretty strong basketball history and football/basketball have become a priority there.

 

[Macbride79]

As Kansas State advanced to the Sweet 16, I'm trying to see what advantages they have over Iowa for men's basketball

1) College town atmosphere -- I would certainly rate Iowa City over Manhattan (the "little apple")
2) State population -- Iowa has a greater population than Kansas
3) Basketball talent in the state -- Advantage to the state of Iowa
4) Access to urban areas -- Iowa is closer to Chicago and St. Louis. K-State is closer to Kansas City
5) Competition in state -- while Iowa State has had a stronger program than Iowa in 21st century, K-State is the little brother to a true college blue blood (Kansas)
Secondary competition in state -- Wichita State has made it to a Final Four in the 21st century, ahead of UNI who has made it to a Sweet 16
6) Conference difficulty -- I will say this varies year to year, but overall comparable in the 21st century between Big 12 and Big 10
7) Big money donors -- Hard to see that Iowa is at a major financial disadvantage versus K-State
8) Facilities -- K-State opened a new practice facility in 2012, Iowa opened a new practice facility in around the same time (in looking it up on Iowa website, it says renovation completed in 2011) -- call that a wash

Sweet 16s in 21st century -- 3 KSU, 0 Iowa
Elite 8s in 21st century 2 KSU (could be three if winning next game vs MSU), 0 Iowa

For some reason, Bruce Weber made the Elite 8 in 2018, but was not given a lifetime contract for that achievement. KSU coach is in his first year.

Curious for input as to the advantages that K-State has over Iowa that have resulted in the considerably better NCAA tournament success the Wildcats have had compared to the Hawkeyes in the 21st century.

Forgot to add that weather climate comparison is basically a wash (versus say Miami Hurricanes)

As far as atmosphere at Carver, I attended Carver games there in the mid 1980s when it was rocking (especially 86-87) including a full student section.

 

[Steamboat529529]

Jacob Pullen was an all American guard on one of those sweet sixteen teams. Nowell is an all big 12 first team guy this year. Not sure about their guards the other year.

 

[Bee93]

I don’t know the AD at KSU, but I’d say their athletic department is better directed.

 

[Greenway4Prez]

Whenever Barta is (hopefully) shitcanned, the first call should be to Gene Taylor.

Taylor is 65, and actually was our Deputy AD from 2014-2017. We kept the wrong guy.

 

[HawkLogic]

The Kansas State head coach had a roster of 2 after he was hired and they were picked for Last this year.

In the Big12 at ISU and K State in consecutive years, there has been a complete turnaround of two different programs to Sweet16 but at Iowa we are on the 14 year or more program and we have posters still claiming Fran's turnround of Iowa program post lickliter was legendary.

Yes, I think KSU is pretty fair comparision. I postulate that in the Big12 with less TV money, the AD's are more into money making sports vs an institution like Iowa where Title9 and equitable outcomes and huge budget makes it harder for AD to emphasize men's revenue sports, other than paying the two head coaches a lot of money. At this point neither KF or Fran could get guaranteed money anywhere near what Iowa is on the hook for paying them. They won't be poached. There is zero reason to extend either coach's contract.

K-State’s only two returners reflect on Tang’s arrival

MANHATTAN, KS (KSNT) – Markquis Nowell and Ismael Massoud, two second-year K-State men’s basketball players, were suddenly thrown into key leadership roles. “It’s crazy beca…

www.ksnt.com

K-State ranked last in Big 12 men’s basketball preseason poll

IRVING, Texas (KSNT) – K-State men’s basketball tallied 12 points in the Big 12 men’s basketball preseason rankings, ranking the Wildcats last. K-State has a new coaching staff an…

www.ksnt.com

 

[Macbride79]

TIme to bump this thread up now that Kansas State has made their third Elite 8 of the 21st century, second in the past five years.

New coach
Only two players returning after coaching change
Little brother in state
Remote location

Now that the Franiacs are back in full force, please explain how K-State has considerable tournament success, while Iowa has not made a tourney run this century, if it is NOT coaching.

 

[HawkBall23]

In just one invite, the new KSU coach has very nearly - if not totally - equaled Fran's NCAA 'success' at Iowa, in terms of total tournament wins. And KSU could very well not be done yet. (in fact, I expect them to beat the Tenn/FAU winner on Saturday to reach the F4)

Not much of a comparison to be had, imo.

 

[LetsGoHawks83]

Yep... Coaches can turn things around quickly with the portal.

We have an AD that enjoys mediocrity and lives in FEAR

 

[cg8284]

They’ve had better coaches than Iowa for at least 15 years. That explains everything.

 

[LetsGoHawks83]

They’ve had better coaches than Iowa for at least 15 years. That explains everything.

Wait they've had more than one coach in 13 years!?!

And they are in the elite 8 AGAIN?
In year 1 of this coach?

 

[markfromj]

It is the coaching, but just remember: For every Tang success there are 10 other first year coaches that did nothing.

Not saying Fran should remain coach (he shouldn’t), but don’t latch on to the one success and think it is routine.

 

[KcTo]

I’ve always thought KSU was a good comparison to Iowa. The little apple is a cool college town but it’s in the middle of nowhere. It all comes down to recruiting and coaching.

I hate to break it to all year but Manhattan and Iowa City are both in the middle of nowhere.
one in middle of the Flint Hills, and one in the middle of corn fields.

 

[BurgHawk87]

It is the coaching, but just remember: For every Tang success there are 10 other first year coaches that did nothing.

Not saying Fran should remain coach (he shouldn’t), but don’t latch on to the one success and think it is routine.

And for every 14th year coach that has done nothing there are other comparisons. Don't latch on to the one mediocrity and think it is routine. (Sorry had to)

 

[littlez]

Manhattan is closer to KC than we are to Chicago or any other “big” city.
And not trying to be a dick. Cuz yeah, it’s frustrating when you look at what Tang has done with his roster in his first year. Their PG is stupid fast.

None of their good players are from KC.

 

[curtisj157]

As Kansas State advanced to the Sweet 16, I'm trying to see what advantages they have over Iowa for men's basketball

1) College town atmosphere -- I would certainly rate Iowa City over Manhattan (the "little apple")
2) State population -- Iowa has a greater population than Kansas
3) Basketball talent in the state -- Advantage to the state of Iowa
4) Access to urban areas -- Iowa is closer to Chicago and St. Louis. K-State is closer to Kansas City
5) Competition in state -- while Iowa State has had a stronger program than Iowa in 21st century, K-State is the little brother to a true college blue blood (Kansas)
Secondary competition in state -- Wichita State has made it to a Final Four in the 21st century, ahead of UNI who has made it to a Sweet 16
6) Conference difficulty -- I will say this varies year to year, but overall comparable in the 21st century between Big 12 and Big 10
7) Big money donors -- Hard to see that Iowa is at a major financial disadvantage versus K-State
8) Facilities -- K-State opened a new practice facility in 2012, Iowa opened a new practice facility in around the same time (in looking it up on Iowa website, it says renovation completed in 2011) -- call that a wash

Sweet 16s in 21st century -- 3 KSU, 0 Iowa
Elite 8s in 21st century 2 KSU (could be three if winning next game vs MSU), 0 Iowa

For some reason, Bruce Weber made the Elite 8 in 2018, but was not given a lifetime contract for that achievement. KSU coach is in his first year.

Curious for input as to the advantages that K-State has over Iowa that have resulted in the considerably better NCAA tournament success the Wildcats have had compared to the Hawkeyes in the 21st century.

They good. We suck. Simple.

 

[HawkLogic]

It is the coaching, but just remember: For every Tang success there are 10 other first year coaches that did nothing.

Not saying Fran should remain coach (he shouldn’t), but don’t latch on to the one success and think it is routine.

Valid point.

Not sure the ratio is 10:1...I guess it depends on what you are measuring. Getting a Tang that
turns around a team in 1 year is probably a 10% hit rate...getting a guy that ultimately can provide
same or more upside than Fran...I think the odds are a lot better than 10%


Since the 1970 Iowa itself has had
Miller---won Big 10 Title,
Schultz--awful--plug pulled quickly
Olson-- won Big Ten title, Ncaa final 4
Raveling--so so record, awesome recruiter
Davis -- Good, Elite8 but with Raveling players
Alford --- So so, around 0.500 in B1G if you count BTT
Lickliter-- awful--plug pulled quickly
FRan - solid/slightly above average in B1G win%, Similar to Davis but low ceiling

4/8 hires were good to great (Miller, Olson, Davis, Fran)
2/8 hires were awful (schultz, lickliter) but they were fired quickly

Alford was mediocre, Raveling was underrated because if he'd stayed he
would have likely won a lot of games with the talent he had assembled.

The Chances of a terrible hire are maybe 25%
Solid to Great: 50%

I would take another Raveling if it led to an Elite8 level of falent.

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

None of their good players are from KC.

Right but that wasn’t his point. The discussion was about proximity to major metro areas.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

Again they have men we have boys. They got physical nyc players. Quick physical guards, you can teach offense. Defense is an attitude and you see what fran thinks of that. Joe t. Nice tweet from Doug gottlieb on joe as we’ll comparison isn’t 100% there but he’s right on the body quicks and toughness.

 

[littlez]

Manhattan is closer to KC than we are to Chicago or any other “big” city.
And not trying to be a dick. Cuz yeah, it’s frustrating when you look at what Tang has done with his roster in his first year. Their PG is stupid fast.

Right but that wasn’t his point. The discussion was about proximity to major metro areas.

But that has zero to do with K States success.

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

Here’s one to chew on: what does the KSU roster play like with Fran coaching them? With Fran’s defensive “shortcomings”, is that roster more or less successful?

 

[littlez]

Here’s one to chew on: what does the KSU roster play like with Fran coaching them? With Fran’s defensive “shortcomings”, is that roster more or less successful?

Good question. Here’s my thing with Fran. Do you think he would be comfortable like Tang has been just letting a guy like Nowell totally control the game? He was incredible tonight but there’s also games where he’s had 5-6 turnovers. We know how Fran feels about that.

 

[LarryMullenJr.]

Good question. Here’s my thing with Fran. Do you think he would be comfortable like Tang has been just letting a guy like Nowell totally control the game? He was incredible tonight but there’s also games where he’s had 5-6 turnovers. We know how Fran feels about that.

Good point. I would guess, sadly, that Nowell wouldn’t have been allowed to get to the point he has under Tang with Fran. The leash would’ve gotten yanked so fast as we’ve seen with soooo many over the years that the Nowell they have at this point wouldn’t have been allowed to be reached.

 

[littlez]

Good point. I would be guess, sadly, that Nowell wouldn’t have been allowed to get to the point he has under Tang with Fran. The leash would’ve gotten yanked so fast as we’ve seen with soooo many over the years that the Nowell they have at this point wouldn’t have been allowed to be reached.

Totally agree.

 

[RocknRollface]

Yep... Coaches can turn things around quickly with the portal.

We have an AD that enjoys mediocrity and lives in FEAR

Whats Barta have to be afraid of?

Id say he lives in comfort.

 

[HawkBall23]

Florida Atlantic, as a NINE seed, is going to the Elite 8.


Iowa hasn't advanced past the first full weekend of a single NCAA Tournament since 1999.

 

[Legs94]

KSU or FAU are about to be in the Final 4. But Iowa fans expect too much wanting a Sweet 16 once in awhile. At least once in 13 seasons. Some serious loser mentality out there.

 

[im4hawks50595]

They actually play some defense have a legit PG and look like they have lifted a weight a time or two

 

[Bulldogs1974]

They actually play some defense have a legit PG and look like they have lifted a weight a time or two

This. Not real hard to figure out. Not sure what the aversion to the weight room is.

 

[Hawktagonapus]

Damn if only we had better guards and defense we could beat MSU in overtime.

 

[Mohawkeye]

This. Not real hard to figure out. Not sure what the aversion to the weight room is.

I don’t get this. You don’t think Rebraca and Garza put on muscle weight at Iowa? Besides PMac, who has the thyroid issue, who do you think needs to beef up?

 

[ISUBryceC]

As Kansas State advanced to the Sweet 16, I'm trying to see what advantages they have over Iowa for men's basketball

1) College town atmosphere -- I would certainly rate Iowa City over Manhattan (the "little apple")
2) State population -- Iowa has a greater population than Kansas
3) Basketball talent in the state -- Advantage to the state of Iowa
4) Access to urban areas -- Iowa is closer to Chicago and St. Louis. K-State is closer to Kansas City
5) Competition in state -- while Iowa State has had a stronger program than Iowa in 21st century, K-State is the little brother to a true college blue blood (Kansas)
Secondary competition in state -- Wichita State has made it to a Final Four in the 21st century, ahead of UNI who has made it to a Sweet 16
6) Conference difficulty -- I will say this varies year to year, but overall comparable in the 21st century between Big 12 and Big 10
7) Big money donors -- Hard to see that Iowa is at a major financial disadvantage versus K-State
8) Facilities -- K-State opened a new practice facility in 2012, Iowa opened a new practice facility in around the same time (in looking it up on Iowa website, it says renovation completed in 2011) -- call that a wash

Sweet 16s in 21st century -- 3 KSU, 0 Iowa
Elite 8s in 21st century 2 KSU (could be three if winning next game vs MSU), 0 Iowa

For some reason, Bruce Weber made the Elite 8 in 2018, but was not given a lifetime contract for that achievement. KSU coach is in his first year.

Curious for input as to the advantages that K-State has over Iowa that have resulted in the considerably better NCAA tournament success the Wildcats have had compared to the Hawkeyes in the 21st century.

I mean this with all due respect, all of those things you listed really aren't that important. They've had better coaches than Iowa or ISU in that time, and that's why they've had more success.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Kudo's to K-State. They have better recruiters and coaches.

Why is it that the fans that want Fran fired (that have no decision making authority) and upset with the fans that don't think Fran should be fired (that also have no decision making authority)?

Be mad at Barta or the U.

 

[Legs94]

Damn if only we had better guards and defense we could beat MSU in overtime.

*on a neutral court when it matters most.