Kris

[Hawk_4shur]

The McCaffery's are taking a pounding here for the last couple of games. Probably deservedly so.

But, why does Kris Murray get a pass? Last 2 games combined - 62 min, 7-23 from the floor. 1-11 from 3, 10 rebounds and 14 points.

I wonder if he's been ill? He looks sluggish and the stats back that up. It took him TWO games to get a double-double.

Kris is the Hawks best player - the go-to guy. He's the one that should be leading the way in tough games.

So, go ahead and continue bashing the Mac family. But when your best player doesn't show up it's hard to win road games.

Edit - Kris was 36 points under his average for the two games. The Hawks lost those games by 32.

 

[Hendy hawk]

Definitely off his game. He's been guarded pretty close on defense. You can see it when he tries post move and misses, he looks for the ref to call a foul and looks frustrated when it's not called.
Note: One thing he does not do is complain to the refs about it while running up the court.
I give him credit for that!!!

 

[longliveCS40]

Remember early in the season when we all complained how soft Kris was playing and he just didn't look good? Shortly after he was out 2 games with an injury. I think Kris is playing hurt again.

 

[uihawk82]

I agree with the OP to a point. I have mentioned that Kris looks tired or has lost his legs a bit. But Kris had to sit a bunch and play less aggressive due to 2 early fouls and the wisky player guarding him, Wahl I believe, was doing a really good job of which coach Gard told his player do not give Kris any room.

Which begs the question of why wasnt Fran posting up Kris most of the game because he had a height advantage. Play a double post game with Kris and Filip, two low posts, a high and low, with the 3 perimeter players buzzing around.

And with Kris down low you can set some screens for him to pop out and get open and get a jumper.

I think Fran needs to look for some new ways to get his players in a position for success.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

I agree with the OP to a point. I have mentioned that Kris looks tired or has lost his legs a bit. But Kris had to sit a bunch and play less aggressive due to 2 early fouls and the wisky player guarding him, Wahl I believe, was doing a really good job of which coach Gard told his player do not give Kris any room.

Which begs the question of why wasnt Fran posting up Kris most of the game because he had a height advantage. Play a double post game with Kris and Filip, two low posts, a high and low, with the 3 perimeter players buzzing around.

And with Kris down low you can set some screens for him to pop out and get open and get a jumper.

I think Fran needs to look for some new ways to get his players in a position for success.

Look, I don't want to bash Kris - he's a great player and a great young man. Maybe we will find out that he's sick or injured.

But with everyone crapping on the Mac's, you could make an argument that Kris is the biggest reason for the awful showing these last two games.

CMac was 0-5 last night. How many of those shots were near the end of the shot clock when no one else could or would step up and make a play?

Kris has been bad inside and out. He isn't even getting many touches. I'm sure Fran wants to get him the ball, but sometimes your star player needs to go get it.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

Remember early in the season when we all complained how soft Kris was playing and he just didn't look good? Shortly after he was out 2 games with an injury. I think Kris is playing hurt again.

That crossed my mind watching last night

 

[skydog0784]

Kris is really in a funk, no doubt. That limp rebound by WI where Kris was just watching was the worst. Connor is no position to be bitching to anybody at this point the way he's playing.

Rebraca is the only solid, consistent player we have at this point.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

Kris is really in a funk, no doubt. That limp rebound by WI where Kris was just watching was the worst. Connor is no position to be bitching to anybody at this point the way he's playing.

Rebraca is the only solid, consistent player we have at this point.

I remember the play when CMac barked at Kris.

Kris got a pass driving toward the basket on the left side of the lane - his strong side. He got to about 4 ft from the basket and stopped because there were some defenders moving toward him. Normally he would have taken it up strong, maybe get fouled or an "and one". But he stopped and passed it out.

I also remember thinking, WTF? I couldn't believe he didn't try to make a play there,

As Captain, CMac had every right to get on him there. That's his job.

 

[skydog0784]

I remember the play when CMac barked at Kris.

Kris got a pass driving toward the basket on the left side of the lane - his strong side. He got to about 4 ft from the basket and stopped because there were some defenders moving toward him. Normally he would have taken it up strong, maybe get fouled or an "and one". But he stopped and passed it out.

I also remember thinking, WTF? I couldn't believe he didn't try to make a play there,

As Captain, CMac had every right to get on him there. That's his job.

Fair point, Kris seemed checked out last night for sure.

I trust Connor is taking a hard look at what him and his brother are bringing to the table right now. Heck, Patrick takes most defensive possessions off. He literally is one of the worst defensive players I've seen playing high-major college ball.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

Fair point, Kris seemed checked out last night for sure.

I trust Connor is taking a hard look at what him and his brother are bringing to the table right now. Heck, Patrick takes most defensive possessions off. He literally is one of the worst defensive players I've seen playing high-major college ball.

Connor was all over Patrick last night as well

 

[skydog0784]

Connor was all over Patrick last night as well

That is good. I didn't see that.

 

[bodyworker]

Connor was all over Patrick last night as well

They were a better team when Patrick was out with his illness, it let Payton S get more minutes and flow in his game.

 

[NCHawkeye24]

I think Kris is just frustrated because what WI and NW did was kind of cut him off at the knees. Both of those teams have played that Duke kind of basketball where they collapse into the lane on any drive and try to take a charge, whereas the home team gets a lot of those calls. There is a counter to that defensive philosophy because you can kick it out to open shooters, but, nobody is hitting those shots. If we hit a decent percentage of open shots against those two teams we blow them both out, but that also opens up the lane because the defense is going to have to get out to those shooters, and this is where Kris really thrives. I even think if Fran posted up Kris that he would just get doubled (like Rebraca) because for some reason these opposing coaches are not concerned at all about guarding the 3 point line against us. Of the approx. 50 or so 3PA's a whole lot of them were open, good shots.

One last thing is that if you have noticed the schedule the B1G did not do Iowa any favors as far as rest goes. Pretty much everyone we have played has had atleast 1 day longer rest. It matters, especially when playing on the road when you have to bring your own energy.

 

[General Tso]

I agree with the OP to a point. I have mentioned that Kris looks tired or has lost his legs a bit. But Kris had to sit a bunch and play less aggressive due to 2 early fouls and the wisky player guarding him, Wahl I believe, was doing a really good job of which coach Gard told his player do not give Kris any room.

Which begs the question of why wasnt Fran posting up Kris most of the game because he had a height advantage. Play a double post game with Kris and Filip, two low posts, a high and low, with the 3 perimeter players buzzing around.

And with Kris down low you can set some screens for him to pop out and get open and get a jumper.

I think Fran needs to look for some new ways to get his players in a position for success.

This. Coaches have to get players in positions to succeed

 

[StonesCat]

The McCaffery's are taking a pounding here for the last couple of games. Probably deservedly so.

But, why does Kris Murray get a pass? Last 2 games combined - 62 min, 7-23 from the floor. 1-11 from 3, 10 rebounds and 14 points.

I wonder if he's been ill? He looks sluggish and the stats back that up. It took him TWO games to get a double-double.

Kris is the Hawks best player - the go-to guy. He's the one that should be leading the way in tough games.

So, go ahead and continue bashing the Mac family. But when your best player doesn't show up it's hard to win road games.

Edit - Kris was 36 points under his average for the two games. The Hawks lost those games by 32.

I'm not sure there's anything wrong with him, the simple truth is that he's just not as good as Keegan. Way too many people just assumed it was a plug in and replace thing this year. Just because they're twins doesn't mean they've got the same skills.

 

[RollingBallofButcherKnives]

Connor was all over Patrick last night as well

Is it because we know of Patrick’s struggle that makes me think he is kind of out of it? Seems low on the effort scale and just wants to jack threes….?

Edit: Didn’t see the other thread on this..

 

[ShonnDeereGreene]

I remember the play when CMac barked at Kris.

Kris got a pass driving toward the basket on the left side of the lane - his strong side. He got to about 4 ft from the basket and stopped because there were some defenders moving toward him. Normally he would have taken it up strong, maybe get fouled or an "and one". But he stopped and passed it out.

I also remember thinking, WTF? I couldn't believe he didn't try to make a play there,

As Captain, CMac had every right to get on him there. That's his job.

Noticed the same thing and couldn’t believe how passive it looked. Had a step on his guy, strong hand, layup within reach… instead he stopped as quickly as he could and looked to kick it out.

I would have been upset if Dix (for example) looked that passive - let alone the star player!

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

Is it because we know of Patrick’s struggle that makes me think he is kind of out of it? Seems low on the effort scale and just wants to jack threes….?

Edit: Didn’t see the other thread on this..

What Patrick needs to do is start getting to the line. Only way to do that is taking it strong to the basket or rebounding. He’s not doing either. He’s doing himself nor the team any favors running around the perimeter. Shit, even Ulis is in there fighting for boards

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

Something isn't right with Kris. Seems like a few weeks since he looked like one of the best players in the B1G, and the last two have been really off.

 

[littlez]

Again, our roster is just not that good. We have an undersized Center ( who has been great this year) a pt guard and shooting guard that are both wildly inconsistent, and a 6th year guy in Connor who's a nice glue guy and brings a lot of intangibles but kind of is who he is. Then we have a star in Kris Murray. We've won a few games when he's been not great, but the truth is we really need him to get 18-22 pts and 6-10 rebounds against the better teams. He's been terrible these last 2 games. He looks just absolutely lost out there on the court right now. We're not deep at all, and honestly w/all that's going on w/Patrick of course this affects the team. And I'm not blaming Pat. But I think we really needed him to take big steps this year for the team to take big steps. Obviously hasn't happened. But yes, your star player needs to show up and be that player. And he certainly has not lately.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Looked like Kris wasn't even trying last night. The two air-balled layups were very concerning.

Kris was literally running away from the ball last night. Connor had to yell at him once. And on another play a turnover was caused partially because of Kris' extreme passivity off the ball.

Hope Kris can turn it around. He's too good of a player to not be more aggressive. Yes, more post ups would be good. I'd also like to see Fran at times just put the ball in Kris' hands and run the offense through him. Put him in a few ball-screens, but especially get him isolated on a side and just let him go to work. Iowa needs Kris to be the man.

It's certainly not all on Kris. This team is broken right now, at least on the road, and I think Kris' play is more of a function of that. Among, many examples, when Sandfort misses a free throw, you know something is off and it's probably not going to be your night.


It appears that something isn't right with this team internally all the sudden. Some very concerning body language and play. It appears that this team's head is no longer in the right place. Without being on the inside, I have my thoughts about what may be happening. It definitely seems something has happened within the past week.

Regardless, Fran has to earn his money and pull his team out of this. Pull his team together and make the adjustments to play more sound. The players have to keep fighting, show more leadership and pull together as a team. They have to find a way to be more vocal, more confident, more aggressive. They need to get out of their heads and play tougher mentally and physically. Last night was a prime example of playing not to lose, instead of playing to win.

Tough to win on the road regardless, especially against a desperate team. Hopefully some home cooking will wash this all away. Hopefully this is just a stretch of late February fatigue. If so, Fran needs to mix in some more bench minutes.

Hawks better BRING IT vs MSU. Where previously I'd expected Iowa to win this game, it now appears to be a scheduling nightmare. MSU is coming off a huge and likely galvanizing win. Meanwhile the Hawk have to go from an 8pm game to an 11am game. If the Hawks get this one I'll be impressed. Time to step it up

 

[ChosenChildren]

It looks like Murray is in pain again. Probably the plantar fasciatis flaring up again?

 

[blhawk]

Something isn't right with Kris. Seems like a few weeks since he looked like one of the best players in the B1G, and the last two have been really off.

JFC, one week ago he scored 20 against OSU and the game before he had 28 and 14 boards on the road. Even in an off game VS NW he had 14....what do people reasonably expect, that no bad games are allowed? He's the 3rd leading scorer in the big ten, a half a point behind TJD who was a preseason all American FFS

Either some you are just stupid AF or there's another reason there's a double standard on how Kris is judged VS rest of team but it's F'n ridiculous. He's carried the team most of the season and deserves much better than what Fran has put around him

 

[Hendy hawk]

Shot looks tentative and not using his legs. Maybe his foot is bothering him.

 

[ChosenChildren]

Fair point, Kris seemed checked out last night for sure.

I trust Connor is taking a hard look at what him and his brother are bringing to the table right now. Heck, Patrick takes most defensive possessions off. He literally is one of the worst defensive players I've seen playing high-major college ball.

Patrick "snoop dog" McCaffery should only be playing 5 to 7 minutes a game. He is incredibly ineffective, and is taking time away from better players. He doesn't rebound, play defense or drive the ball. He does jack up threes and misses most of them. A highly ineffective player right now. Dix and Sandfort deserve his minutes. Huge upside with each of those players. None with Patrick....he just isn't cutting it. He is also out of shape and easily winded.

Sorry to be so blunt, but it is apparent to everyone except his Daddy and Mommy.

 

[BirdistheWord]

I think Fran is regretting not getting more road minutes in the past for guys like Dix and Bowen. We desperately need some athleticism and shooting. I understand going with the vets but we have no margin for error with the short bench when things go south. I think we have to roll the dice and let Dix play/shoot more. I will still take my chances with Saucy's mid range game and need a higher volume of Kris and Peyton shots going forward. Less shooting from Ulis, PMac, CMac.

 

[ChosenChildren]

Looked like Kris wasn't even trying last night. The two air-balled layups were very concerning.

Kris was literally running away from the ball last night. Connor had to yell at him once. And on another play a turnover was caused partially because of Kris' extreme passivity off the ball.

Hope Kris can turn it around. He's too good of a player to not be more aggressive. Yes, more post ups would be good. I'd also like to see Fran at times just put the ball in Kris' hands and run the offense through him. Put him in a few ball-screens, but especially get him isolated on a side and just let him go to work. Iowa needs Kris to be the man.

It's certainly not all on Kris. This team is broken right now, at least on the road, and I think Kris' play is more of a function of that. Among, many examples, when Sandfort misses a free throw, you know something is off and it's probably not going to be your night.


It appears that something isn't right with this team internally all the sudden. Some very concerning body language and play. It appears that this team's head is no longer in the right place. Without being on the inside, I have my thoughts about what may be happening. It definitely seems something has happened within the past week.

Regardless, Fran has to earn his money and pull his team out of this. Pull his team together and make the adjustments to play more sound. The players have to keep fighting, show more leadership and pull together as a team. They have to find a way to be more vocal, more confident, more aggressive. They need to get out of their heads and play tougher mentally and physically. Last night was a prime example of playing not to lose, instead of playing to win.

Tough to win on the road regardless, especially against a desperate team. Hopefully some home cooking will wash this all away. Hopefully this is just a stretch of late February fatigue. If so, Fran needs to mix in some more bench minutes.

Hawks better BRING IT vs MSU. Where previously I'd expected Iowa to win this game, it now appears to be a scheduling nightmare. MSU is coming off a huge and likely galvanizing win. Meanwhile the Hawk have to go from an 8pm game to an 11am game. If the Hawks get this one I'll be impressed. Time to step it up

1. Murray isn't healthy. Play him if healthy or sit him.
2. Bench Patrick and leave him there. He isn't contributing anything and is stealing minutes from better, more motivated players.

 

[skydog0784]

Don't worry boys, we have Patrick back and ready to step in for Kris with big time minutes, 0 points, 0 rebounds, 0 defense. Meanwhile, Dix languishes on the bench. All is well.

 

[HawkLogic]

Look, I don't want to bash Kris - he's a great player and a great young man. Maybe we will find out that he's sick or injured.

But with everyone crapping on the Mac's, you could make an argument that Kris is the biggest reason for the awful showing these last two games.

CMac was 0-5 last night. How many of those shots were near the end of the shot clock when no one else could or would step up and make a play?

Kris has been bad inside and out. He isn't even getting many touches. I'm sure Fran wants to get him the ball, but sometimes your star player needs to go get it.

Kris is the star...yeah he had bad game. The team usually wins or loses depending on how Kris game goes.

 

[Herklejerk]

Fair point, Kris seemed checked out last night for sure.

I trust Connor is taking a hard look at what him and his brother are bringing to the table right now. Heck, Patrick takes most defensive possessions off. He literally is one of the worst defensive players I've seen playing high-major college ball.

...and the worst part about it is that it's not effort, and only partially technique. He does not have the physical ability to D up guards.

It's a big problem that is mostly unfixable.

 

[twindman]

What Patrick needs to do is start getting to the line. Only way to do that is taking it strong to the basket or rebounding. He’s not doing either. He’s doing himself nor the team any favors running around the perimeter. Shit, even Ulis is in there fighting for boards

I actually think Patrick is rebounding much better. He used to just hang out about 10 feet from the rim and get long rebounds. Last game and game before he got at least 2 boards pretty much inside. I don't think he did that earlier in the year.

 

[hoythawk]

The McCaffery's are taking a pounding here for the last couple of games. Probably deservedly so.

But, why does Kris Murray get a pass? Last 2 games combined - 62 min, 7-23 from the floor. 1-11 from 3, 10 rebounds and 14 points.

I wonder if he's been ill? He looks sluggish and the stats back that up. It took him TWO games to get a double-double.

Kris is the Hawks best player - the go-to guy. He's the one that should be leading the way in tough games.

So, go ahead and continue bashing the Mac family. But when your best player doesn't show up it's hard to win road games.

Edit - Kris was 36 points under his average for the two games. The Hawks lost those games by 32.

Probably looks sluggish because he's been carrying dead weight (Conner) all season. He also gets a pass because his bad games are few and far between where Cmac is a bad game almost nightly.

 

[hoythawk]

I agree with the OP to a point. I have mentioned that Kris looks tired or has lost his legs a bit. But Kris had to sit a bunch and play less aggressive due to 2 early fouls and the wisky player guarding him, Wahl I believe, was doing a really good job of which coach Gard told his player do not give Kris any room.

Which begs the question of why wasnt Fran posting up Kris most of the game because he had a height advantage. Play a double post game with Kris and Filip, two low posts, a high and low, with the 3 perimeter players buzzing around.

And with Kris down low you can set some screens for him to pop out and get open and get a jumper.

I think Fran needs to look for some new ways to get his players in a position for success.

Kris is getting the Garza affect. It's where his numbers are worse because Conner doesn't get guarded leaving more attention on Kris. Garza's worst numbers were with Cmac in the game. Kris still brings a ton to the game when not scoring. He is taking the attention off the other 4 guys and is playing defense. Fran has done a poor job of keeping Kris involved in the offense. Sit Conner and you will see Kris production increase.

 

[hoythawk]

Look, I don't want to bash Kris - he's a great player and a great young man. Maybe we will find out that he's sick or injured.

But with everyone crapping on the Mac's, you could make an argument that Kris is the biggest reason for the awful showing these last two games.

CMac was 0-5 last night. How many of those shots were near the end of the shot clock when no one else could or would step up and make a play?

Kris has been bad inside and out. He isn't even getting many touches. I'm sure Fran wants to get him the ball, but sometimes your star player needs to go get it.

You have to be the biggest moran on the board if you are saying CMac 0-5 was because of late shots or because others wouldn't step up. His shots are wide open uncontested give me's that he bricked. They were'tn end of the clock prayers. In fact, he should've gotten 2 more TO's for getting rid of the ball without enough time on the clock for his teammates to get a shot off. Conner stands around unguarded at the top of the key while the defense sags and makes it tougher on our good players.

 

[anon_b29nm7v7dwp6r]

Don't worry boys, we have Patrick back and ready to step in for Kris with big time minutes, 0 points, 0 rebounds, 0 defense. Meanwhile, Dix languishes on the bench. All is well.

What’s the upside?

Oh, wrong family/sport?

 

[uihawk82]

I'm not sure there's anything wrong with him, the simple truth is that he's just not as good as Keegan. Way too many people just assumed it was a plug in and replace thing this year. Just because they're twins doesn't mean they've got the same skills.

I sense what you are saying but I think Kris's skills are way up there, maybe not quite Keeganesque, but Kris doesnt seem to be as assertive and aggressive as Keegan.

The last two years of Keegan he would attack the boards and attack the rim on drives. Keegan would explode at and to the rim and dunk it more than Kris. Keegan was more in motion than most hawk players. Garza was always working hard.

 

[hoythawk]

I sense what you are saying but I think Kris's skills are way up there, maybe not quite Keeganesque, but Kris doesnt seem to be as assertive and aggressive as Keegan.

The last two years of Keegan he would attack the boards and attack the rim on drives. Keegan would explode at and to the rim and dunk it more than Kris. Keegan was more in motion than most hawk players. Garza was always working hard.

Thats a really good point with Keegan. He did go up stronger to the rim and dunked much more frequently. They both have such quick hops.I think the talent level is very close but Kris is a little more passive. Kris has also had a worse supporting cast compared to Keegans years.

 

[CookyMonster]

You cant really post him up against guys like Wahl because he has no counters to his left hand. He isnt big or strong enough to man handle most 4s in the league.

 

[CookyMonster]

Thats a really good point with Keegan. He did go up stronger to the rim and dunked much more frequently. They both have such quick hops.I think the talent level is very close but Kris is a little more passive. Kris has also had a worse supporting cast compared to Keegans years.

Keegan was dynamite with either hand, going either direction. Kris is always coming back to his left, everyone knows at this point and its making him really easy to guard. He also cant shoot anymore.

 

[jonesy5960]

You cant really post him up against guys like Wahl because he has no counters to his left hand. He isnt big or strong enough to man handle most 4s in the league.

Kris is really a natural 3, but that spot's been spoken for. With that said, he is rebounding at a rate that is very close to where Keegan was at last year.