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Lesson Learned by Gunther and Carton...

Nashville_Hawkeye

Nashville_Hawkeye

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Dec 31, 2015
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Carton and Gunther learned a valuable lesson today: Fail to bring your A game to the B10 tourney, get beat by lesser opponents at the B10s, get a bad seeding at the NCAAs, and get majored in the first round. Any chance we had (and I know it was microscopic to begin with) just went out the window. Curious to see how they respond...will they be like Alex Meyer last year and dig in...or will they call it a season. Hate it for them. Good season and nothing to show for it at either the B10s or NCAAs.
 
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SPOONER said:
Turk was barely top 100. That's not the level of recruit we should be counting on if we want to contend annually.
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I don't disagree with that, but I do think Turk would be scoring us more points than Carton. And Gross might have been even better than Turk, even at 41.
 
maize_mechanic said:
I don't disagree with that, but I do think Turk would be scoring us more points than Carton. And Gross might have been even better than Turk, even at 41.
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Carton held a slight advantage over Turk before Turk's injury. From an NCAA points standpoint, my take is that it was basically a wash.
 
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SPOONER said:
Carton held a slight advantage over Turk before Turk's injury. From an NCAA points standpoint, my take is that it was basically a wash.
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That's true, but I generally assume younger wrestlers progress more in a given season, especially when compared to a 5th year. I don't think the Turk we saw in November was the Turk we would have seen in March. But probably minimal point difference in the end.
 
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Nashville_Hawkeye said:
Carton and Gunther learned a valuable lesson today: Fail to bring your A game to the B10 tourney, get beat by lesser opponents at the B10s, get a bad seeding at the NCAAs, and get majored in the first round. Any chance we had (and I know it was microscopic to begin with) just went out the window. Curious to see how they respond...will they be like Alex Meyer last year and dig in...or will they call it a season. Hate it for them. Good season and nothing to show for it at either the B10s or NCAAs.
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I don't think the Hawks' chances are/were dependent on Gunther and Carton winning in round 1.
FWIW, I don't think Wilke tips the scale either way either.
 
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Carton lost to a superior wrestler in DeCamillo. Not much he could have realistically done that would have changed the result. On the other hand, I can't help but feel that Gunther let an opportunity slip away. The score was ugly, but Gunther's own moves did more to put him on his back on two occasions than anything Womack did.

Question: Is there any chance Wilcke can get past Jared Haught? If he pulls the upset, Wilcke likely gets McCutcheon in the quarters. Not such a bad draw, all things considered, for a guy who got the last ticket of admission to the tournament.
 
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bphawkeye_Rivals said:
Gunther will have a hard time getting varsity reps next season (maybe ever).
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Gunther is a year ahead of Young in school but they are about the same age. Gunther had the head to head advantage in high school and has gotten the varsity experience this year. Neither is a 174 at this time and Marinelli is not a full size 165. Someone is going to have a hard time keeping Gunther from getting varsity reps next season.
Take this from the guy that called Gunther having the job this year from start to finish when a handful of other names were thrown out.
 
I liked way too many posts in this thread, even ones that disagreed with each other.

Any points from 141, 165, 197 are gravy. God forbid we were reliant on those weights to win a title. Having multiple individual finalists and champs is what wins NCAAs. Everything else is a distraction.

Re recruiting: I like the guys coming into the program at those weights (Teasdale?, Marinelli, Warner); unfortunately those guys aren't wrestling for Iowa in 2017.
 
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PapaBearSLIM said:
Gunther is a year ahead of Young in school but they are about the same age. Gunther had the head to head advantage in high school and has gotten the varsity experience this year. Neither is a 174 at this time and Marinelli is not a full size 165. Someone is going to have a hard time keeping Gunther from getting varsity reps next season.
Take this from the guy that called Gunther having the job this year from start to finish when a handful of other names were thrown out.
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If Gunther is a starter next year he'd better be a lot better.
 
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maize_mechanic said:
That's true, but I generally assume younger wrestlers progress more in a given season, especially when compared to a 5th year. I don't think the Turk we saw in November was the Turk we would have seen in March. But probably minimal point difference in the end.
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This right here.
 
Rankings are great but don't get too caught up in them. This year's college seniors' rankings coming out of high school:

1. Jason Tsirtsis Crown Point IN 141 Northwestern
2. Taylor Massa St. John's MI 165 Michigan
3. Jimmy Gulibon Derry PA 125 Penn State
4. Jordan Rogers Mead WA 184 Oklahoma State
5. John Meeks Des Moines IA 133 Iowa State
6. Alex Cisneros Selma CA 141 Cornell
7. Mark Grey Rockaway NJ 133 Cornell
8. Doug Vollaro Pine Castle FL 285 Lehigh
9. Nikko Reyes Clovis CA 184 Illinois
10. Devin Peterson Wisconsin Rapids WI 197 Iowa Western

Anybody want to guess where one of the best, Gabe Dean was ranked?

Wait for it.



73.

If Brands/Morningstar are recruiting a guy, they see something in them. Sure, some guys will be room guys but you will also get a Gabe Dean sometimes.
 
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Gusaford said:
Carton lost to a superior wrestler in DeCamillo. Not much he could have realistically done that would have changed the result. On the other hand, I can't help but feel that Gunther let an opportunity slip away. The score was ugly, but Gunther's own moves did more to put him on his back on two occasions than anything Womack did.

Question: Is there any chance Wilcke can get past Jared Haught? If he pulls the upset, Wilcke likely gets McCutcheon in the quarters. Not such a bad draw, all things considered, for a guy who got the last ticket of admission to the tournament.
Click to expand...


No
 
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SPOONER said:
Turk was barely top 100. That's not the level of recruit we should be counting on if we want to contend annually.
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Can we get offial word from someone more inclined to find Turks HS ranking? I believe he much higher than "barely top 100". I wanna say he was on the 35-45 range.

IMHO, Vince would've very much progressed throughout this season had he stayed heathly. Injuries have plagued him since he's gotten here, but if he ever gets a healthy streak, he'll be hell on wheels. Zero chance Turk stands around with his feet in the mud like Carton did for the first 5 minutes of his match vs DiCamillo today. No dig on Topher, but Turks ceiling is much, much higher and he's MUCH more offensive... There's not much debating that.
 
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PapaBearSLIM said:
Gunther is a year ahead of Young in school but they are about the same age. Gunther had the head to head advantage in high school and has gotten the varsity experience this year. Neither is a 174 at this time and Marinelli is not a full size 165. Someone is going to have a hard time keeping Gunther from getting varsity reps next season.
Take this from the guy that called Gunther having the job this year from start to finish when a handful of other names were thrown out.
Click to expand...
I'm not convinced Kem is full sized 157, and I'm surely not convinced Cash is 197.
 
madmustang4 said:
completely true, nice try
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Wrong dude.

Gross might qualify as a pretty good get ya think? Bad beat due to bad judgement.

Marianelli and young are great recrits. However neither are in the lineup.

Recruiting is on the uptick and has been for a few years now. Sometimes things just don't work out exactly how you want.

Toph and Gunther are doing the best they can but they are really just 3rd string guys who have to fill a spot right now.
 
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Gobblin said:
Can we get offial word from someone more inclined to find Turks HS ranking? I believe he much higher than "barely top 100". I wanna say he was on the 35-45 range.

IMHO, Vince would've very much progressed throughout this season had he stayed heathly. Injuries have plagued him since he's gotten here, but if he ever gets a healthy streak, he'll be hell on wheels. Zero chance Turk stands around with his feet in the mud like Carton did for the first 5 minutes of his match vs DiCamillo today. No dig on Topher, but Turks ceiling is much, much higher and he's MUCH more offensive... There's not much debating that.
Click to expand...

#67...almost looks like #97 if you squint real hard.
 
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Gobblin said:
Can we get offial word from someone more inclined to find Turks HS ranking? I believe he much higher than "barely top 100". I wanna say he was on the 35-45 range.

IMHO, Vince would've very much progressed throughout this season had he stayed heathly. Injuries have plagued him since he's gotten here, but if he ever gets a healthy streak, he'll be hell on wheels. Zero chance Turk stands around with his feet in the mud like Carton did for the first 5 minutes of his match vs DiCamillo today. No dig on Topher, but Turks ceiling is much, much higher and he's MUCH more offensive... There's not much debating that.
Click to expand...

D1CW had him 67. I think we might both be wrong, actually. Now that I think about it, I think he was fringe top 100 going into his senior year but then rightfully moved up.

I completely agree with the rest of your post.
 
SPOONER said:
Not seeing what the issue is here. Did it break a rule or something?
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Did not have a stop watch on it - but I thought it was supposed to be a 1 hour rest between end of match and start of match. Someone suggested 45 minutes in some other thread is the rule. either way ... he was not allowed the proper rest (we all know that this was the first match of the day for the guy he wrestled). Just seemed unfair
 
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