Lesson Learned by Gunther and Carton...

[Lsanders20]

It's 45 minutes and you are right. No one cares about being fair. That's the real world. You have to be ready to go in a big tournament. Just like in the real world.

 

[ih8iast8]

i just think it's a wasted argument. With the exception of Midlands, he wrestled the same way he did all season, regardless of how much rest he had.

 

[93hawkeye]

Gunther is a year ahead of Young in school but they are about the same age. Gunther had the head to head advantage in high school and has gotten the varsity experience this year. Neither is a 174 at this time and Marinelli is not a full size 165. Someone is going to have a hard time keeping Gunther from getting varsity reps next season.
Take this from the guy that called Gunther having the job this year from start to finish when a handful of other names were thrown out.

Gunther is a gamer but he has very little offense. If both Marinelli and Young don't show greater ability to score than Gunther has this year, I'll be surprised and disappointed.

 

[SPOONER]

Did not have a stop watch on it - but I thought it was supposed to be a 1 hour rest between end of match and start of match. Someone suggested 45 minutes in some other thread is the rule. either way ... he was not allowed the proper rest (we all know that this was the first match of the day for the guy he wrestled). Just seemed unfair

45 minutes is fine. These are well conditioned athletes who are used to wrestling 6+ matches a day. Quite frankly, I'd rather a guy in his situation have that first match to get his blood flowing, get warm, get over the jitters, etc. and help him get ready to take on a guy coming in cold.

 

[bphawkeye_Rivals]

45 minutes is fine. These are well conditioned athletes who are used to wrestling 6+ matches a day. Quite frankly, I'd rather a guy in his situation have that first match to get his blood flowing, get warm, get over the jitters, etc. and help him get ready to take on a guy coming in cold.

I understand - but I don't think he had 45 minutes. Anyway 6 matches a day is not what happens. maybe 2 at best with a bunch of situational drills and running and lifting on the side. you have your way of prepping your team and I have mine.

 

[Lsanders20]

45 minutes is fine. These are well conditioned athletes who are used to wrestling 6+ matches a day. Quite frankly, I'd rather a guy in his situation have that first match to get his blood flowing, get warm, get over the jitters, etc. and help him get ready to take on a guy coming in cold.

This, and Carton did not look good in his pig tail. Ironside commented how he was not moving his feet. Empty Front head locks with no scoring the entire first period.

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

BTW - I'm still not happy that Carton was rushed onto the mat after wrestling the pigtail.

If he wouldn't have finished 9th at the B10s he wouldn't have been wrestling in that pigtail match and wouldn't have been rushed to the mat. I hate it for him but he and Gunther both made their own beds. Kudos to Wilcke for pulling it out when he was supposed to lose!

 

[TarpHawk]

Rankings are great but don't get too caught up in them. This year's college seniors' rankings coming out of high school:

1. Jason Tsirtsis Crown Point IN 141 Northwestern
2. Taylor Massa St. John's MI 165 Michigan
3. Jimmy Gulibon Derry PA 125 Penn State
4. Jordan Rogers Mead WA 184 Oklahoma State
5. John Meeks Des Moines IA 133 Iowa State
6. Alex Cisneros Selma CA 141 Cornell
7. Mark Grey Rockaway NJ 133 Cornell
8. Doug Vollaro Pine Castle FL 285 Lehigh
9. Nikko Reyes Clovis CA 184 Illinois
10. Devin Peterson Wisconsin Rapids WI 197 Iowa Western

Anybody want to guess where one of the best, Gabe Dean was ranked?

Wait for it.



73.

If Brands/Morningstar are recruiting a guy, they see something in them. Sure, some guys will be room guys but you will also get a Gabe Dean sometimes.

Good stuff. That was definitely a crazy year for rankings.

Given their correlation to college performance over the past five years (not just a single cherry-picked year), I'd say we were extremely smart to start getting caught up in rankings, starting with Kemerer, followed by Marinelli, Lee, Warner and Teasdale.

The team that has nabbed the most top-10 recruits over the past 8 years is the team that has won 5 of the past 6 NCAAs.

McIntosh (#1 2011)
Megaludis (#3 2011)
Gulibon (#3 2012)
Retheford (#3 2013)
Nolf (#4 2014)
Nevills (#5 2014)
Nickal (#7 2014)
Joseph (#5 2015)
Hall (#1 2016)
Suriano (#3 2016)
Manville (#10 2016)
Lee (#4 2017)
Berge (#6 2017)
Wittlake (#3 2018)
Bravo-Young (#4 2018)

Believing we were smarter than the rankings is why we're not defending our title this year.

We've beaten this poor horse, but I respectfully disagree with your post and that's why.

 

[SPOONER]

I understand - but I don't think he had 45 minutes. Anyway 6 matches a day is not what happens. maybe 2 at best with a bunch of situational drills and running and lifting on the side. you have your way of prepping your team and I have mine.

I just ran back the video. His first match ended at about 11:11. His next match started at 12:03. That's 52 minutes.

And you really think they are only wrestling 2 matches a day in tournaments? Huh? And the "prepping your team comment" is a total wtf. Irrelevant.

 

[bphawkeye_Rivals]

I just ran back the video. His first match ended at about 11:11. His next match started at 12:03. That's 52 minutes.

And you really think they are only wrestling 2 matches a day in tournaments? Huh? And the "prepping your team comment" is a total wtf. Irrelevant.

I understand you perfectly now.

 

[rossel 33]

Rankings are great but don't get too caught up in them. This year's college seniors' rankings coming out of high school:

1. Jason Tsirtsis Crown Point IN 141 Northwestern
2. Taylor Massa St. John's MI 165 Michigan
3. Jimmy Gulibon Derry PA 125 Penn State
4. Jordan Rogers Mead WA 184 Oklahoma State
5. John Meeks Des Moines IA 133 Iowa State
6. Alex Cisneros Selma CA 141 Cornell
7. Mark Grey Rockaway NJ 133 Cornell
8. Doug Vollaro Pine Castle FL 285 Lehigh
9. Nikko Reyes Clovis CA 184 Illinois
10. Devin Peterson Wisconsin Rapids WI 197 Iowa Western

Anybody want to guess where one of the best, Gabe Dean was ranked?

Wait for it.



73.

If Brands/Morningstar are recruiting a guy, they see something in them. Sure, some guys will be room guys but you will also get a Gabe Dean sometimes.

-----

While we're at it, here are guys who were ranked #73 in other recent years:

2011 Kloetzer
2012 Kraisser
2013 Del Vecchio
2014 Ozias
2015 Orndorff
2016 Ty White

Picking out a star performer like Dean, who was overlooked coming out of HS, doesn't really prove much, except that HS rankings are imperfect and do not guarantee success.

Nonetheless, there is a significant correlation between d1 collegiate success (AA or champion) and top 10 or 15 ranking. A look at PSU's lineup (almost everyone is top 10 p4p out of HS) is a pretty clear indicator that Cael knows this.

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

Gunther is a gamer but he has very little offense. If both Marinelli and Young don't show greater ability to score than Gunther has this year, I'll be surprised and disappointed.

He wouldn't be the first offensively limited (your words) Hawk to find a spot in the lineup and stick.
I'm just saying with the factors I listed going into next season it will be hard to keep him from getting varsity reps. TnT have shown a tendency to let those battles play out into the season. With the combination of there not being an established starter for him to supplant at 2 weights, him being a returning starter with experience and him not having a total disaster of a freshman season, I have to believe Gunther will not only get varsity reps but the ball will be in his court to keep a varsity spot (whether it be 165 or 174).

 

[93hawkeye]

He wouldn't be the first offensively limited (your words) Hawk to find a spot in the lineup and stick.
I'm just saying with the factors I listed going into next season it will be hard to keep him from getting varsity reps. TnT have shown a tendency to let those battles play out into the season. With the combination of there not being an established starter for him to supplant at 2 weights, him being a returning starter with experience and him not having a total disaster of a freshman season, I have to believe Gunther will not only get varsity reps but the ball will be in his court to keep a varsity spot (whether it be 165 or 174).

Well that's a fair outlook, I guess. I will admit I have higher expectations for Wilcke than Gunther even though they have had similar freshman years...that's probably a double standard on my part.

 

[el dub]

Did not have a stop watch on it - but I thought it was supposed to be a 1 hour rest between end of match and start of match. Someone suggested 45 minutes in some other thread is the rule. either way ... he was not allowed the proper rest (we all know that this was the first match of the day for the guy he wrestled). Just seemed unfair

45 minutes I believe.

 

[Azchief32]

Gunther is a gamer but he has very little offense. If both Marinelli and Young don't show greater ability to score than Gunther has this year, I'll be surprised and disappointed.

Gunther didn't place at Midlands so I have to disagree with Papabear. Now Gunther might do ok against both in the room but he gets brain freeze under the lights.

 

[Gobblin]

He wouldn't be the first offensively limited (your words) Hawk to find a spot in the lineup and stick.
I'm just saying with the factors I listed going into next season it will be hard to keep him from getting varsity reps. TnT have shown a tendency to let those battles play out into the season. With the combination of there not being an established starter for him to supplant at 2 weights, him being a returning starter with experience and him not having a total disaster of a freshman season, I have to believe Gunther will not only get varsity reps but the ball will be in his court to keep a varsity spot (whether it be 165 or 174).

Gotta disagree. Gunther will see mat time, but will not be repping in March barring injuries.

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

Gunther didn't place at Midlands so I have to disagree with Papabear. Now Gunther might do ok against both in the room but he gets brain freeze under the lights.

Gotta disagree. Gunther will see mat time, but will not be repping in March barring injuries.

What exactly are you disagreeing with that I posted?

 

[AFHawk86]

By the way, it's only a lesson learned if learning takes place. We will be able to better evaluate this after their next matches.

Looks like both guys learned, applied, and succeeded! Wash, rinse, and repeat on Friday!

 

[Gobblin]

What exactly are you disagreeing with that I posted?

After re-reading it, I guess nothing. So, I gotta agree. Lol. Sorry bruh.

 

[Hawkeyecurtis81]

If he wouldn't have finished 9th at the B10s he wouldn't have been wrestling in that pigtail match and wouldn't have been rushed to the mat. I hate it for him but he and Gunther both made their own beds. Kudos to Wilcke for pulling it out when he was supposed to lose!

Totally agree he should have been better then 9th. I don't believe that had anything to do with being in a pigtail though. It's not like a play in game.