Let's Hear It for Pope Frank - Catholics Divest from Fossil Fuels

[What Would Jesus Do?]

More than 40 Catholic institutions are to announce the largest ever faith-based divestment from fossil fuels, on the anniversary of the death of St Francis of Assisi.

The sum involved has not been disclosed but the volume of divesting groups is four times higher than a previous church record, and adds to a global divestment movement, led by investors worth $5.5tn.

Christiana Figueres, the former UN climate chief who helped negotiate the Paris climate agreement, hailed Tuesday’s move as “a further sign we are on the way to achieving our collective mission”.

She said: “I hope we will see more leaders like these 40 Catholic institutions commit, because while this decision makes smart financial sense, acting collectively to deliver a better future for everybody is also our moral imperative.”

Church institutions joining the action include the Archdiocese of Cape Town, the Episcopal Conference of Belgium and the diocese of Assisi-Nocera Umbra-Gualdo Tadino, the spiritual home of the world’s Franciscan brothers.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...divestment-from-fossil-fuels?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

[ottumwan in tx]

Calling it fossil fuels, just not right

 

[naturalmwa]

What happens in the market after something like this? I suspect others just buy it up on the cheap and the fossil fuel industry gets more concentrated into the hands of those who don't care about the environment.

 

[unIowa]

What happens in the market after something like this? I suspect others just buy it up on the cheap and the fossil fuel industry gets more concentrated into the hands of those who don't care about the environment.

Well hopefully able people such as yourself will take their positive message and turn it into an individual action and put up some solar panels and/or wind turbines.

 

[naturalmwa]

Well hopefully able people such as yourself will take their positive message and turn it into an individual action and put up some solar panels and/or wind turbines.

Hopefully they will invest the money of millions of Catholics in solar technologies and make a real difference. Team work beats you again.

 

[unIowa]

Hopefully they will invest the money of millions of Catholics in solar technologies and make a real difference. Team work beats you again.

Or they could mobilize their world wide following to individually make direct contributions towards this stated goal and accomplish 100 times what they otherwise could in this area.

 

[naturalmwa]

Or they could mobilize their world wide following to individually make direct contributions towards this stated goal and accomplish 100 times what they otherwise could in this area.

Which would be teamwork. That's in my wheelhouse. If you want your actions to count, you need to join a group and work together.

 

[unIowa]

Which would be teamwork. That's in my wheelhouse. If you want your actions to count, you need to join a group and work together.

That isn't team work that is mobilizing individuals to do the right thing on their own without intervention without direct intervention. The teamwork you speak about would be the catholic church taking all of those donations and setting up a green energy wind/solar/hydro/whatever farm to help clean up the earth.

If, as you state, that is teamwork then why are you not chipping in to the team by generating your own green energy? After all both you and your team know it is the right thing to do.

 

[naturalmwa]

That isn't team work that is mobilizing individuals to do the right thing on their own without intervention without direct intervention. The teamwork you speak about would be the catholic church taking all of those donations and setting up a green energy wind/solar/hydro/whatever farm to help clean up the earth.

If, as you state, that is teamwork then why are you not chipping in to the team by generating your own green energy? After all both you and your team know it is the right thing to do.

Sure that's teamwork and sure I do. You have no basis to make these assumptions about me, stop it, its dishonest.

 

[unIowa]

Sure that's teamwork and sure I do. You have no basis to make these assumptions about me, stop it, its dishonest.

LOLOLOLOL...I got your goat now.

Just giving a hard time Nat.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

What happens in the market after something like this? I suspect others just buy it up on the cheap and the fossil fuel industry gets more concentrated into the hands of those who don't care about the environment.

Even if there is no obvious benefit, at least we know who the good guys are.

I imagine there is a follow-on effect. Organizations that divest are probably more likely to care about the energy they use. So maybe they invest in solar for their buildings, or something along those lines.

So, at worst, this is baby steps. At best, the changing of major tides.

Thinking strictly of the markets, if there are fewer buyers, there's less demand and stock prices should decline. Lower stock prices means lower market cap, which can mean less political clout, less borrowing and buying power - so less influence. When major organizations divest, they als divest from mutual funds with the "wrong" holdings. So those mutual funds are under cascading pressure to dump those holdings.

The more big organizations join, the closer to critical mass we get - where achieving critical mass translates into significant policy changes.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Or they could mobilize their world wide following to individually make direct contributions towards this stated goal and accomplish 100 times what they otherwise could in this area.

Maybe that's next.

 

[unIowa]

Even if there is no obvious benefit, at least we know who the good guys are.

I imagine there is a follow-on effect. Organizations that divest are probably more likely to care about the energy they use. So maybe they invest in solar for their buildings, or something along those lines.

So, at worst, this is baby steps. At best, the changing of major tides.

Thinking strictly of the markets, if there are fewer buyers, there's less demand and stock prices should decline. Lower stock prices means lower market cap, which can mean less political clout, less borrowing and buying power - so less influence. When major organizations divest, they als divest from mutual funds with the "wrong" holdings. So those mutual funds are under cascading pressure to dump those holdings.

The more big organizations join, the closer to critical mass we get - where achieving critical mass translates into significant policy changes.

THIS is how you enact real change.

 

[unIowa]

Maybe that's next.

I really do hope so, it needs to happen.

 

[naturalmwa]

Even if there is no obvious benefit, at least we know who the good guys are.

I imagine there is a follow-on effect. Organizations that divest are probably more likely to care about the energy they use. So maybe they invest in solar for their buildings, or something along those lines.

So, at worst, this is baby steps. At best, the changing of major tides.

Thinking strictly of the markets, if there are fewer buyers, there's less demand and stock prices should decline. Lower stock prices means lower market cap, which can mean less political clout, less borrowing and buying power - so less influence. When major organizations divest, they als divest from mutual funds with the "wrong" holdings. So those mutual funds are under cascading pressure to dump those holdings.

The more big organizations join, the closer to critical mass we get - where achieving critical mass translates into significant policy changes.

Is that how stock prices work? I'm not sure. I bet even if significant numbers of people divested, the stock price would stay relatively stable so long as the value of their product remained stable. Its just that we would now have a more concentrated ownership of the industry. Now maybe that works to make it politically more feasible to regulate an industry if it won't hurt the pension plans of so many. Or maybe it simply makes the oligarchs holding all the oil that much more powerful and motivated in the political landscape.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Is that how stock prices work? I'm not sure. I bet even if significant numbers of people divested, the stock price would stay relatively stable so long as the value of their product remained stable. Its just that we would now have a more concentrated ownership of the industry. Now maybe that works to make it politically more feasible to regulate an industry if it won't hurt the pension plans of so many. Or maybe it simply makes the oligarchs holding all the oil that much more powerful and motivated in the political landscape.

Both things are factors. Remember, that share of Exxon does give you a sliver of ownership. But the value of all stock is much greater than the earnings of the company. The extra value of the stock over and above the earnings is significantly determined on the bidding. When enough bidders turn their backs, the bid price won't be pushed as high. Just another way of saying supply and demand.

Think about the corrections you have seen. Take 2008, for example. Were those companies any different on Tuesday than they were Monday? Was their "meltdown" value or "scrap value" any lower. No. And yet they lost 20% of their market cap.

If you think the divesters won't have a meaningful impact and the price goes down, you gobble it up. But some will disagree and stay away. If enough stay away, that tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

When it comes to fossil energy, we all know that eventually the world will act. With Trump in power, that day is delayed, so stocks go up. With the Catholics divesting, the pressure goes the other way.

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

Just got a notice from Mid American Energy saying rates will jump an average of 14% to pay for wind energy and retire some coal plants. This will affect the poor the hardest of course.

 

[unIowa]

Just got a notice from Mid American Energy saying rates will jump an average of 14% to pay for wind energy and retire some coal plants. This will affect the poor the hardest of course.

Get solar.

 

[Rifler]

Hopefully they will invest the money of millions of Catholics in solar technologies and make a real difference. Team work beats you again.

I'm not aware of any Catholics that look to the Vatican for investment advise,.... self included.

 

[naturalmwa]

I'm not aware of any Catholics that look to the Vatican for investment advise,.... self included.

That was more uniowa's point. My point is the church gets money from millions of catholics and can invest it no mattter where you look.

 

[Rifler]

That was more uniowa's point. My point is the church gets money from millions of Chathoics and can invest it no mattter where you look.

I'm sorry,... so funds invested by the church itself, I see your point.....

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

Where will they get their Holy Oil for Extreme Unction?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I'm sorry,... so funds invested by the church itself, I see your point.....

Plus, on this topic, the Catholics are right about what's good for the world. So following their lead isn't a bad idea.

 

[naturalmwa]

Where will they get their Holy Oil for Extreme Unction?

Olives?

 

[volknut]

SOB - who'd a thunk it!
Effects of Mining Lithium


Even though you will not be individually mining the lithium used in your batteries, you should still be aware of the environmental concerns of this process. The U.S Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) conducted a study on the materials and production of a lithium-ion battery. The study concluded that mining these chemicals can cause the following:

• resource depletion
• global warming
• ecological toxicity (Kaiser, 2013)

Some chemicals used in lithium-ion battery production are very rare and exist in tiny quantities. Rare metals are mined in China by passing bags of dirt through several acid baths, leaving behind the rare materials. “Those rare earths amounted to 0.2 percent of what gets pull out of the ground. The other 99.8 percent-now contaminated with toxic chemicals-is dumped back into the environment” (Wade, 2016). Overall, almost every stage of the lithium mining process can lead to harmful environmental effects.


https://u.osu.edu/2367group3/environmental-concerns/effects-of-mining-lithium/

 

[unIowa]

That was more uniowa's point. My point is the church gets money from millions of catholics and can invest it no mattter where you look.

Currently they are still paying the lawyer bill for diddling the alter kids.

 

[naturalmwa]

Currently they are still paying the lawyer bill for diddling the alter kids.

Maybe, but that doesn't seem relevant. They aren't divesting to pay the lawyers.

 

[unIowa]

Maybe, but that doesn't seem relevant. They aren't divesting to pay the lawyers.

They have to divest to PAY them.

 

[volknut]

They have to divest to PAY them.

What if they are pimping for payment?

 

[naturalmwa]

They have to divest to PAY them.

Link?

 

[dandh]

Both things are factors. Remember, that share of Exxon does give you a sliver of ownership. But the value of all stock is much greater than the earnings of the company. The extra value of the stock over and above the earnings is significantly determined on the bidding. When enough bidders turn their backs, the bid price won't be pushed as high. Just another way of saying supply and demand.

Think about the corrections you have seen. Take 2008, for example. Were those companies any different on Tuesday than they were Monday? Was their "meltdown" value or "scrap value" any lower. No. And yet they lost 20% of their market cap.

If you think the divesters won't have a meaningful impact and the price goes down, you gobble it up. But some will disagree and stay away. If enough stay away, that tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

When it comes to fossil energy, we all know that eventually the world will act. With Trump in power, that day is delayed, so stocks go up. With the Catholics divesting, the pressure goes the other way.

No - they're not a big enough player. And any effect will be very temporary at best. CVX, BP, and RDS all went up today.

 

[CeMar_Clone]

More than 40 Catholic institutions are to announce the largest ever faith-based divestment from fossil fuels, on the anniversary of the death of St Francis of Assisi.

The sum involved has not been disclosed but the volume of divesting groups is four times higher than a previous church record, and adds to a global divestment movement, led by investors worth $5.5tn.

Christiana Figueres, the former UN climate chief who helped negotiate the Paris climate agreement, hailed Tuesday’s move as “a further sign we are on the way to achieving our collective mission”.

She said: “I hope we will see more leaders like these 40 Catholic institutions commit, because while this decision makes smart financial sense, acting collectively to deliver a better future for everybody is also our moral imperative.”

Church institutions joining the action include the Archdiocese of Cape Town, the Episcopal Conference of Belgium and the diocese of Assisi-Nocera Umbra-Gualdo Tadino, the spiritual home of the world’s Franciscan brothers.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...divestment-from-fossil-fuels?CMP=share_btn_tw

Yes, lets make energy more expensive for poor people. Thanks, Liberals, for making energy more expensive for those that can least afford it!!!!!

 

[naturalmwa]

Yes, lets make energy more expensive for poor people. Thanks, Liberals, for making energy more expensive for those that can least afford it!!!!!

It's cute when you build straw men to pretend to care about poor people. You told us just yesterday that you think the poor deserve their status and shouldn't be helped. Maybe we should burn the poor for energy?

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

Olives?

Who wants to be at the mercy of " big olive "?

 

[naturalmwa]

Who wants to be at the mercy of " big olive "?

Popeye

 

[unIowa]

Yes, lets make energy more expensive for poor people. Thanks, Liberals, for making energy more expensive for those that can least afford it!!!!!

It's cute when you build straw men to pretend to care about poor people. You told us just yesterday that you think the poor deserve their status and shouldn't be helped. Maybe we should burn the poor for energy?

What sort of pollution might that cause?

 

[naturalmwa]

What sort of pollution might that cause?

I bet it would be offset by eliminating the pollution the poor cause by living.

 

[unIowa]

I bet it would be offset by eliminating the pollution the poor cause by living.

Nat WTF were you doing up at 3:59am?

 

[naturalmwa]

Nat WTF were you doing up at 3:59am?

Enjoying the rain.