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Letter of the Holy Father to the Bishops of the United States of America

Hoosierhawkeye

HB King
Sep 16, 2008
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Probably beating @BrianNole777 to the punch on this one.

Dear Brothers in the Episcopate,

I am writing today to address a few words to you in these delicate moments that you are living as Pastors of the People of God who walk together in the United States of America.

1. The journey from slavery to freedom that the People of Israel traveled, as narrated in the Book of Exodus, invites us to look at the reality of our time, so clearly marked by the phenomenon of migration, as a decisive moment in history to reaffirm not only our faith in a God who is always close, incarnate, migrant and refugee, but also the infinite and transcendent dignity of every human person. [1]

2. These words with which I begin are not an artificial construct. Even a cursory examination of the Church’s social doctrine emphatically shows that Jesus Christ is the true Emmanuel (cf. Mt 1:23); he did not live apart from the difficult experience of being expelled from his own land because of an imminent risk to his life, and from the experience of having to take refuge in a society and a culture foreign to his own. The Son of God, in becoming man, also chose to live the drama of immigration. I like to recall, among other things, the words with which Pope Pius XII began his Apostolic Constitution on the Care of Migrants, which is considered the “Magna Carta” of the Church’s thinking on migration:

“The family of Nazareth in exile, Jesus, Mary and Joseph, emigrants in Egypt and refugees there to escape the wrath of an ungodly king, are the model, the example and the consolation of emigrants and pilgrims of every age and country, of all refugees of every condition who, beset by persecution or necessity, are forced to leave their homeland, beloved family and dear friends for foreign lands.” [2]



3. Likewise, Jesus Christ, loving everyone with a universal love, educates us in the permanent recognition of the dignity of every human being, without exception. In fact, when we speak of “infinite and transcendent dignity,” we wish to emphasize that the most decisive value possessed by the human person surpasses and sustains every other juridical consideration that can be made to regulate life in society. Thus, all the Christian faithful and people of good will are called upon to consider the legitimacy of norms and public policies in the light of the dignity of the person and his or her fundamental rights, not vice versa.

4. I have followed closely the major crisis that is taking place in the United States with the initiation of a program of mass deportations. The rightly formed conscience cannot fail to make a critical judgment and express its disagreement with any measure that tacitly or explicitly identifies the illegal status of some migrants with criminality. At the same time, one must recognize the right of a nation to defend itself and keep communities safe from those who have committed violent or serious crimes while in the country or prior to arrival. That said, the act of deporting people who in many cases have left their own land for reasons of extreme poverty, insecurity, exploitation, persecution or serious deterioration of the environment, damages the dignity of many men and women, and of entire families, and places them in a state of particular vulnerability and defenselessness.

5. This is not a minor issue: an authentic rule of law is verified precisely in the dignified treatment that all people deserve, especially the poorest and most marginalized. The true common good is promoted when society and government, with creativity and strict respect for the rights of all — as I have affirmed on numerous occasions — welcomes, protects, promotes and integrates the most fragile, unprotected and vulnerable. This does not impede the development of a policy that regulates orderly and legal migration. However, this development cannot come about through the privilege of some and the sacrifice of others. What is built on the basis of force, and not on the truth about the equal dignity of every human being, begins badly and will end badly.

6. Christians know very well that it is only by affirming the infinite dignity of all that our own identity as persons and as communities reaches its maturity. Christian love is not a concentric expansion of interests that little by little extend to other persons and groups. In other words: the human person is not a mere individual, relatively expansive, with some philanthropic feelings! The human person is a subject with dignity who, through the constitutive relationship with all, especially with the poorest, can gradually mature in his identity and vocation. The true ordo amoris that must be promoted is that which we discover by meditating constantly on the parable of the “Good Samaritan” (cf. Lk 10:25-37), that is, by meditating on the love that builds a fraternity open to all, without exception. [3]

7. But worrying about personal, community or national identity, apart from these considerations, easily introduces an ideological criterion that distorts social life and imposes the will of the strongest as the criterion of truth.

8. I recognize your valuable efforts, dear brother bishops of the United States, as you work closely with migrants and refugees, proclaiming Jesus Christ and promoting fundamental human rights. God will richly reward all that you do for the protection and defense of those who are considered less valuable, less important or less human!

9. I exhort all the faithful of the Catholic Church, and all men and women of good will, not to give in to narratives that discriminate against and cause unnecessary suffering to our migrant and refugee brothers and sisters. With charity and clarity we are all called to live in solidarity and fraternity, to build bridges that bring us ever closer together, to avoid walls of ignominy and to learn to give our lives as Jesus Christ gave his for the salvation of all.

10. Let us ask Our Lady of Guadalupe to protect individuals and families who live in fear or pain due to migration and/or deportation. May the “Virgen morena”, who knew how to reconcile peoples when they were at enmity, grant us all to meet again as brothers and sisters, within her embrace, and thus take a step forward in the construction of a society that is more fraternal, inclusive and respectful of the dignity of all.

Fraternally,

Francis

From the Vatican, 10 February 2025
 
There was another thread, but it got taken down, though i'm honestly at a bit of a loss for why compared to much of the board.
 
I don’t know if it was me, but my reaction


To be clear, there is no doubt as to the Church's longstanding teachings on the humane treatment of immigrants. And the middle part of the statement regarding human dignity is pretty good (as have been the statements from Archbishop Broglio of USCCB).

But as usual, Francis sort of comically muddles things up in his writing....or at least the first few paragraphs. First, the exodus from Egypt is sort of a funny reference to start from, inasmuch as (i) God told them to leave Egypt as a nation building exercise, after crushing the Egyptians for a while, (ii) then kept them wandering around for a while outside the borders (Remain in Sinai?), and (iii) I assume that the people who were in Canaan, their destination, regarded them as invaders. (In fact, if I remember my Joshua correctly, some might have called them genocidal maniacs. ) That's a heck of an 'invitation', to use the Pope's words, to contemplate the issue. Second, as to the Holy Family's flight to Egypt, again it's God instructing them to do so. And of course, it was really a temporary stay visa, and the baby was born before crossing the border.
 
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Probably beating @BrianNole777 to the punch on this one.

Dear Brothers in the Episcopate,

I am writing today to address a few words to you in these delicate moments that you are living as Pastors of the People of God who walk together in the United States of America.

1. The journey from slavery to freedom that the People of Israel traveled, as narrated in the Book of Exodus, invites us to look at the reality of our time, so clearly marked by the phenomenon of migration, as a decisive moment in history to reaffirm not only our faith in a God who is always close, incarnate, migrant and refugee, but also the infinite and transcendent dignity of every human person. [1]

2. These words with which I begin are not an artificial construct. Even a cursory examination of the Church’s social doctrine emphatically shows that Jesus Christ is the true Emmanuel (cf. Mt 1:23); he did not live apart from the difficult experience of being expelled from his own land because of an imminent risk to his life, and from the experience of having to take refuge in a society and a culture foreign to his own. The Son of God, in becoming man, also chose to live the drama of immigration. I like to recall, among other things, the words with which Pope Pius XII began his Apostolic Constitution on the Care of Migrants, which is considered the “Magna Carta” of the Church’s thinking on migration:

“The family of Nazareth in exile, Jesus, Mary and Joseph, emigrants in Egypt and refugees there to escape the wrath of an ungodly king, are the model, the example and the consolation of emigrants and pilgrims of every age and country, of all refugees of every condition who, beset by persecution or necessity, are forced to leave their homeland, beloved family and dear friends for foreign lands.” [2]




3. Likewise, Jesus Christ, loving everyone with a universal love, educates us in the permanent recognition of the dignity of every human being, without exception. In fact, when we speak of “infinite and transcendent dignity,” we wish to emphasize that the most decisive value possessed by the human person surpasses and sustains every other juridical consideration that can be made to regulate life in society. Thus, all the Christian faithful and people of good will are called upon to consider the legitimacy of norms and public policies in the light of the dignity of the person and his or her fundamental rights, not vice versa.

4. I have followed closely the major crisis that is taking place in the United States with the initiation of a program of mass deportations. The rightly formed conscience cannot fail to make a critical judgment and express its disagreement with any measure that tacitly or explicitly identifies the illegal status of some migrants with criminality. At the same time, one must recognize the right of a nation to defend itself and keep communities safe from those who have committed violent or serious crimes while in the country or prior to arrival. That said, the act of deporting people who in many cases have left their own land for reasons of extreme poverty, insecurity, exploitation, persecution or serious deterioration of the environment, damages the dignity of many men and women, and of entire families, and places them in a state of particular vulnerability and defenselessness.

5. This is not a minor issue: an authentic rule of law is verified precisely in the dignified treatment that all people deserve, especially the poorest and most marginalized. The true common good is promoted when society and government, with creativity and strict respect for the rights of all — as I have affirmed on numerous occasions — welcomes, protects, promotes and integrates the most fragile, unprotected and vulnerable. This does not impede the development of a policy that regulates orderly and legal migration. However, this development cannot come about through the privilege of some and the sacrifice of others. What is built on the basis of force, and not on the truth about the equal dignity of every human being, begins badly and will end badly.

6. Christians know very well that it is only by affirming the infinite dignity of all that our own identity as persons and as communities reaches its maturity. Christian love is not a concentric expansion of interests that little by little extend to other persons and groups. In other words: the human person is not a mere individual, relatively expansive, with some philanthropic feelings! The human person is a subject with dignity who, through the constitutive relationship with all, especially with the poorest, can gradually mature in his identity and vocation. The true ordo amoris that must be promoted is that which we discover by meditating constantly on the parable of the “Good Samaritan” (cf. Lk 10:25-37), that is, by meditating on the love that builds a fraternity open to all, without exception. [3]

7. But worrying about personal, community or national identity, apart from these considerations, easily introduces an ideological criterion that distorts social life and imposes the will of the strongest as the criterion of truth.

8. I recognize your valuable efforts, dear brother bishops of the United States, as you work closely with migrants and refugees, proclaiming Jesus Christ and promoting fundamental human rights. God will richly reward all that you do for the protection and defense of those who are considered less valuable, less important or less human!

9. I exhort all the faithful of the Catholic Church, and all men and women of good will, not to give in to narratives that discriminate against and cause unnecessary suffering to our migrant and refugee brothers and sisters. With charity and clarity we are all called to live in solidarity and fraternity, to build bridges that bring us ever closer together, to avoid walls of ignominy and to learn to give our lives as Jesus Christ gave his for the salvation of all.

10. Let us ask Our Lady of Guadalupe to protect individuals and families who live in fear or pain due to migration and/or deportation. May the “Virgen morena”, who knew how to reconcile peoples when they were at enmity, grant us all to meet again as brothers and sisters, within her embrace, and thus take a step forward in the construction of a society that is more fraternal, inclusive and respectful of the dignity of all.

Fraternally,

Francis

From the Vatican, 10 February 2025
Lighten up Francis.
 
I don’t know if it was me, but my reaction


To be clear, there is no doubt as to the Church's longstanding teachings on the humane treatment of immigrants. And the middle part of the statement regarding human dignity is pretty good (as have been the statements from Archbishop Broglio of USCCB).

But as usual, Francis sort of comically muddles things up in his writing....or at least the first few paragraphs. First, the exodus from Egypt is sort of a funny reference to start from, inasmuch as (i) God told them to leave Egypt as a nation building exercise, after crushing the Egyptians for a while, (ii) then kept them wandering around for a while outside the borders (Remain in Sinai?), and (iii) I assume that the people who were in Canaan, their destination, regarded them as invaders. (In fact, if I remember my Joshua correctly, some might have called them genocidal maniacs. ) That's a heck of an 'invitation', to use the Pope's words, to contemplate the issue. Second, as to the Holy Family's flight to Egypt, again it's God instructing them to do so. And of course, it was really a temporary stay visa, and the baby was born before crossing the border.
My favorite part about american catholics is how they believe that they know more about their faith than the fuqin pope.
 
My favorite part about american catholics is how they believe that they know more about their faith than the fuqin pope.
Hence my prefatory comment. Francis is absolutely right to champion the church's social justice mission, but man he is a hell of a muddled communicator.

But this just reminds me of the time one of my partners was taking a bible study of some sort, and they were talking about how Joseph was considering divorcing Mary when he learned that she was with child. Naturally, all of the northern virginia women quickly and collectively gravitated to the "all men are pigs" mantra. So my partner said, "Hold on a minute. Think about this from Joseph's perspective a moment. His fiance, who consistent with the times he thinks if a virgin, tells him he's pregnant. He gets past that, and says, well ok then, who's the father? She replies, uh, the holy spirit. And yet he still took her as his wife."
 
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Mercy is the code he adheres to...thank you Pope Francis...one helluva Pope!n
He was brought up in the church at a time when the Maryknoll sect of priests held sway in many South American churches and schools like Francis was exposed to. Many were post WWII revolutionary Marxist types who railed against the then dictators who controlled more than one SA country.
Frankly I have little use for Francis. However he is in poor health and may not have many years left here on Earth.
 
He was brought up in the church at a time when the Maryknoll sect of priests held sway in many South American churches and schools like Francis was exposed to. Many were post WWII revolutionary Marxist types who railed against the then dictators who controlled more than one SA country.
Frankly I have little use for Francis. However he is in poor health and may not have many years left here on Earth.
Please give examples. He’s from Argentina. That would be during the time of Peron.

Actually he lived during the regimes in Argentina, Chile, and Brazil that were Fascist, not Marxist.

If you need some books to read, I can give you a reading list.
 
Please give examples. He’s from Argentina. That would be during the time of Peron.

Actually he lived during the regimes in Argentina, Chile, and Brazil that were Fascist, not Marxist.

If you need some books to read, I can give you a reading list.

Nah. She’s comfortable calling his background Marxist. No need to further broaden her perspective.

Again: her churchgoing seems to be doing wonders.
 
Please give examples. He’s from Argentina. That would be during the time of Peron.

Actually he lived during the regimes in Argentina, Chile, and Brazil that were Fascist, not Marxist.

If you need some books to read, I can give you a reading list.
As a Catholic educated in Catholic schools who read the cartoon illustrated stories in the pamphlets distributed by the Maryknoll Fathers in my fourth grade class by Sister Margaret Rose, I do appreciate your additional information and yourments kind offer of reading materials. I am well aware of the Peron years and had them in mind when writing my post. Argentina was a favorite sanctuary of escaping German Nazis. The Maryknolls - Marxist - opposed the fascist elements of the era.
I believe (I could check I suppose) they influenced one Che Guevara.

Catholics are not generally proselytizers, so I’m somewhat surprised that you consider yourself well versed enough to recommend religious reading materials. Unless asked for, it’s sort of impolite.
 
As a Catholic educated in Catholic schools who read the cartoon illustrated stories in the pamphlets distributed by the Maryknoll Fathers in my fourth grade class by Sister Margaret Rose, I do appreciate your additional information and yourments kind offer of reading materials. I am well aware of the Peron years and had them in mind when writing my post. Argentina was a favorite sanctuary of escaping German Nazis. The Maryknolls - Marxist - opposed the fascist elements of the era.
I believe (I could check I suppose) they influenced one Che Guevara.

Catholics are not generally proselytizers, so I’m somewhat surprised that you consider yourself well versed enough to recommend religious reading materials. Unless asked for, it’s sort of impolite.

So the Bible is Marxist?

The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
Leviticus 19:34
And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt.
Deuteronomy 10:19
For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in.
Matthew 25:35
Keep on loving one another as brothers and sisters. Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it. Continue to remember those in prison as if you were together with them in prison, and those who are mistreated as if you yourselves were suffering.
Hebrews 13:1-3
 
As a Catholic educated in Catholic schools who read the cartoon illustrated stories in the pamphlets distributed by the Maryknoll Fathers in my fourth grade class by Sister Margaret Rose, I do appreciate your additional information and yourments kind offer of reading materials. I am well aware of the Peron years and had them in mind when writing my post. Argentina was a favorite sanctuary of escaping German Nazis. The Maryknolls - Marxist - opposed the fascist elements of the era.
I believe (I could check I suppose) they influenced one Che Guevara.

Catholics are not generally proselytizers, so I’m somewhat surprised that you consider yourself well versed enough to recommend religious reading materials. Unless asked for, it’s sort of impolite.
Che was from Bolivia and went to Cuba.

I studied this stuff and not from the Catholic Church. I also lived it.
 
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He was brought up in the church at a time when the Maryknoll sect of priests held sway in many South American churches and schools like Francis was exposed to. Many were post WWII revolutionary Marxist types who railed against the then dictators who controlled more than one SA country.
Frankly I have little use for Francis. However he is in poor health and may not have many years left here on Earth.
He was also in an area where priests “fell” out of helicopters
 
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At the age of 88, Pope Francis did not compose the afore mentioned
letter in this thread. He told his advisers to write something on the
issue of migrants and he would sign it. The misinterpretation of Joseph,
Mary and the baby Jesus going to Egypt is poor scholarship.
So, they didn’t go to Egypt? I really don’t understand how it matters personally or relates to US immigration policy today.
 
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What makes a good pope? What is the Jesus-y thing for him to say?
The reality is we get the popes we need at a given time. In Francis case, he reemphasized the pastoral at a time when the doctrinal (as great as it was under jpii and Benedict) had been overweighted.

And jpii was of course a fitting response to the balloon masses and a decade or two of erroneously thinking Vatican ii was an excuse to be doctrinally lazy.
 
Definitely way too much “love thy neighbor” crap, amiright?

Need more of that good old fashioned “prosperity gospel” where Jesus wants us ‘mericans driving big expensive cars and tearing down homeless encampments.

Parable of the Talents​

The "Parable of the Talents", in Matthew 25:14–30 tells of a master who was leaving his house to travel, and, before leaving, entrusted his property to his servants. According to the abilities of each man, one servant received five talents, the second had received two, and the third received only one. The property entrusted to the three servants was worth eight talents, where a talent was a significant amount of money. Upon returning home, after a long absence, the master asks his three servants for an account of the talents he entrusted to them. The first and the second servants explain that they each put their talents to work, and have doubled the value of the property with which they were entrusted; each servant was rewarded:

His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
— Matthew 25:23
The third servant, however, had merely hidden his talent, burying it in the ground, and was punished & kicked out by his master:

Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art a hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him, that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 
The reality is we get the popes we need at a given time. In Francis case, he reemphasized the pastoral at a time when the doctrinal (as great as it was under jpii and Benedict) had been overweighted.

And jpii was of course a fitting response to the balloon masses and a decade or two of erroneously thinking Vatican ii was an excuse to be doctrinally lazy.
Are you Catholic then?
 
Probably beating @BrianNole777 to the punch on this one.

Dear Brothers in the Episcopate,

I am writing today to address a few words to you in these delicate moments that you are living as Pastors of the People of God who walk together in the United States of America.

1. The journey from slavery to freedom that the People of Israel traveled, as narrated in the Book of Exodus, invites us to look at the reality of our time, so clearly marked by the phenomenon of migration, as a decisive moment in history to reaffirm not only our faith in a God who is always close, incarnate, migrant and refugee, but also the infinite and transcendent dignity of every human person. [1]

2. These words with which I begin are not an artificial construct. Even a cursory examination of the Church’s social doctrine emphatically shows that Jesus Christ is the true Emmanuel (cf. Mt 1:23); he did not live apart from the difficult experience of being expelled from his own land because of an imminent risk to his life, and from the experience of having to take refuge in a society and a culture foreign to his own. The Son of God, in becoming man, also chose to live the drama of immigration. I like to recall, among other things, the words with which Pope Pius XII began his Apostolic Constitution on the Care of Migrants, which is considered the “Magna Carta” of the Church’s thinking on migration:

“The family of Nazareth in exile, Jesus, Mary and Joseph, emigrants in Egypt and refugees there to escape the wrath of an ungodly king, are the model, the example and the consolation of emigrants and pilgrims of every age and country, of all refugees of every condition who, beset by persecution or necessity, are forced to leave their homeland, beloved family and dear friends for foreign lands.” [2]




3. Likewise, Jesus Christ, loving everyone with a universal love, educates us in the permanent recognition of the dignity of every human being, without exception. In fact, when we speak of “infinite and transcendent dignity,” we wish to emphasize that the most decisive value possessed by the human person surpasses and sustains every other juridical consideration that can be made to regulate life in society. Thus, all the Christian faithful and people of good will are called upon to consider the legitimacy of norms and public policies in the light of the dignity of the person and his or her fundamental rights, not vice versa.

4. I have followed closely the major crisis that is taking place in the United States with the initiation of a program of mass deportations. The rightly formed conscience cannot fail to make a critical judgment and express its disagreement with any measure that tacitly or explicitly identifies the illegal status of some migrants with criminality. At the same time, one must recognize the right of a nation to defend itself and keep communities safe from those who have committed violent or serious crimes while in the country or prior to arrival. That said, the act of deporting people who in many cases have left their own land for reasons of extreme poverty, insecurity, exploitation, persecution or serious deterioration of the environment, damages the dignity of many men and women, and of entire families, and places them in a state of particular vulnerability and defenselessness.

5. This is not a minor issue: an authentic rule of law is verified precisely in the dignified treatment that all people deserve, especially the poorest and most marginalized. The true common good is promoted when society and government, with creativity and strict respect for the rights of all — as I have affirmed on numerous occasions — welcomes, protects, promotes and integrates the most fragile, unprotected and vulnerable. This does not impede the development of a policy that regulates orderly and legal migration. However, this development cannot come about through the privilege of some and the sacrifice of others. What is built on the basis of force, and not on the truth about the equal dignity of every human being, begins badly and will end badly.

6. Christians know very well that it is only by affirming the infinite dignity of all that our own identity as persons and as communities reaches its maturity. Christian love is not a concentric expansion of interests that little by little extend to other persons and groups. In other words: the human person is not a mere individual, relatively expansive, with some philanthropic feelings! The human person is a subject with dignity who, through the constitutive relationship with all, especially with the poorest, can gradually mature in his identity and vocation. The true ordo amoris that must be promoted is that which we discover by meditating constantly on the parable of the “Good Samaritan” (cf. Lk 10:25-37), that is, by meditating on the love that builds a fraternity open to all, without exception. [3]

7. But worrying about personal, community or national identity, apart from these considerations, easily introduces an ideological criterion that distorts social life and imposes the will of the strongest as the criterion of truth.

8. I recognize your valuable efforts, dear brother bishops of the United States, as you work closely with migrants and refugees, proclaiming Jesus Christ and promoting fundamental human rights. God will richly reward all that you do for the protection and defense of those who are considered less valuable, less important or less human!

9. I exhort all the faithful of the Catholic Church, and all men and women of good will, not to give in to narratives that discriminate against and cause unnecessary suffering to our migrant and refugee brothers and sisters. With charity and clarity we are all called to live in solidarity and fraternity, to build bridges that bring us ever closer together, to avoid walls of ignominy and to learn to give our lives as Jesus Christ gave his for the salvation of all.

10. Let us ask Our Lady of Guadalupe to protect individuals and families who live in fear or pain due to migration and/or deportation. May the “Virgen morena”, who knew how to reconcile peoples when they were at enmity, grant us all to meet again as brothers and sisters, within her embrace, and thus take a step forward in the construction of a society that is more fraternal, inclusive and respectful of the dignity of all.

Fraternally,

Francis

From the Vatican, 10 February 2025
Pope Francis is a jackwagon.
 
He was brought up in the church at a time when the Maryknoll sect of priests held sway in many South American churches and schools like Francis was exposed to. Many were post WWII revolutionary Marxist types who railed against the then dictators who controlled more than one SA country.
Frankly I have little use for Francis. However he is in poor health and may not have many years left here on Earth.
You’re a shitty catholic imo. WTF does the bolded even fvcking mean?
 
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