looking at Iowa recruiting back to 2002

[Hawkeye2222]

as that is how far Rivals goes back

2002 22 commits 2 4*, 8 3* and 12 2* recruits
2003 22 commits 3 4*, 12 3* and 7 2* recruits
2004 21 commits 1 5*, 1 4* JUCO, 5 3*, 13 2* and 1 0*
2005 23 commits 1 5*, 7 4*, 11 3* and 4 2* recruits
2006 21 commits 2 4*, 11 3* and 8 2* recruits
2007 22 commits 5 4*, 11 3* and 6 2* recruits
2008 25 commits 0 4*, 13 3* and 12 2* recruits
2009 20 commits 2 4*, 5 3* and 13 2* recruits
2010 22 commits 4 4*, 13 3* and 5 2* recruits
2011 25 commits 4 4*, 17 3* and 4 2* recruits
2012 24 commits 4 4*, 15 3* and 5 2* recruits
2013 22 commits 0 4*. 17 3* and 5 2* recruits
2014 20 commits 2 4*, 11 3* and 7 2* recruits
2015 17 commits 1 4*, 13 3* and 3 2* recruits to date,

getting 2* recruits has gone down, but recruiting 4* talent has never been that big of accomplishment in 16 years nor was it that big of a success under HF

to expect firing his assistants every 1 or two years is going to end in disaster

this to show that Iowa has never been a recruiting stop for top rated recruits,

 

[MoneyintheBanks]

Common theme in this little example...? The head coach. I'm not on a Fire KF train yet but he's a below average recruiter. All you're doing is reiterating that. He has rarely been able to get elite talent here, so you can't say 'Iowa' has never been a recruiting stop for top recruits when these are all Kirk Ferentz years. Just another flaw in whatever your posting style is.

 

[Hawkeye2222]

no it is a recurring theme for ALL coaches the last 65 years and except for a few years under Evy going back almost 95 years.

this is a problem that is solely on the Iowa program NOT on any single coach

 

[MoneyintheBanks]

Actually, we wouldn't know that. Because Rivals doesn't go back that far

. I heard Fry constantly pulled in 6 5*'s a class with 4.4 forty times

 

[Hawkeye2222]

tell you what in the morning I will post all 19 season records of HF. then you can determine if the recruiting was better or not.

 

[who r u]

Originally posted by Hawkeye2222:

tell you what in the morning I will post all 19 season records of HF. then you can determine if the recruiting was better or not.

 

[qrtr]

Please don't do that ...

 

[cidhawkeye]

You can do that? HF records? Seems odd that you have that capability yet you conveniently forget the 2002 and 2005 offensive numbers when you try to say GD had an 'All time high' offensive production this year. Seems pretty selective there.

 

[h-hawk]

Also, in general, our recruits have had better offers than they do now. The proportion of the class that had other major offers has of course swung a little back and forth over the years. But recently, the proportion has gone down - of the current class about 1/3 have other major offers. In most years the ratio is closer to 50/50. This may be due to most of the linemen not attending a lot of summer camps.

 

[GarryO37]

The myth that Fry couldn't get big recruits to Iowa is just that, a myth. The fact is that Fry was a great recruiter and did get top recruits to come to Iowa.

Kilroy, I don't understand what you have against Hayden Fry. You always try to prove that Ferentz is the better coach when he is clearly the lesser of the two.

You try to create this misconception by really only posting HF and KF's wins per year. But when face with other statistics, like win percentage, you are nowhere to be found again. Why is that?

Fry clearly has the better win percentage by a good margin. Fry played a tougher schedule. Fry coached more unanimous All-Americans. Getting to a bowl game actually meant something when Fry was coaching because there were far less. If you had a winning record, you weren't guaranteed a bowl game unlike today. A lot of teams with winning records didn't go to bowl games.

How about Fry teams finishing in the top 25 more often then Ferentz teams? The fact is that Iowa was far more relevant under Fry than they are under Ferentz.

I'm positive you won't respond to this because you never do.

 

[RiverCityHawk]

I believe the Big Ten is tougher and more competitive now than when HF was coaching.

 

[iahawkeyes17]

Originally posted by Hawkeye2222:

as that is how far Rivals goes back

2002 22 commits 2 4*, 8 3* and 12 2* recruits
2003 22 commits 3 4*, 12 3* and 7 2* recruits
2004 21 commits 1 5*, 1 4* JUCO, 5 3*, 13 2* and 1 0*
2005 23 commits 1 5*, 7 4*, 11 3* and 4 2* recruits
2006 21 commits 2 4*, 11 3* and 8 2* recruits
2007 22 commits 5 4*, 11 3* and 6 2* recruits
2008 25 commits 0 4*, 13 3* and 12 2* recruits
2009 20 commits 2 4*, 5 3* and 13 2* recruits
2010 22 commits 4 4*, 13 3* and 5 2* recruits
2011 25 commits 4 4*, 17 3* and 4 2* recruits
2012 24 commits 4 4*, 15 3* and 5 2* recruits
2013 22 commits 0 4*. 17 3* and 5 2* recruits
2014 20 commits 2 4*, 11 3* and 7 2* recruits
2015 17 commits 1 4*, 13 3* and 3 2* recruits to date,

getting 2* recruits has gone down, but recruiting 4* talent has never been that big of accomplishment in 16 years nor was it that big of a success under HF

to expect firing his assistants every 1 or two years is going to end in disaster

this to show that Iowa has never been a recruiting stop for top rated recruits,

Common theme in all of this KF. KF is the one who hires and fires coaches. So hopefully we won't have to hear the crying and BS of "well this staff hasn't been here too long" or "getting their players in." End of the day KF has been here 16yrs he is the one who oversees the whole thing. It's like a CEO if his company is doing poorly because one department is consistantly failing he has to and takes blame for it.

Plus besides KOK leaving for Dolphins in 16+ years we really can't use the excuse we have lost so many coaches who have left Iowa for better jobs as coordinators and head coach somewhere else. Philbin left after 02' season and Aiken been gone close to a decade.

More importantly where does Iowa rank every year in conference and nationally since 02' that is more telling than Fing stars.

 

[Hawkeye2222]

1st of all the BT was ruled by Michigan and O$U there was a reason why the BT was referred to as the Big 2 Little 8. and here as promised are HF season by season records

1979 5-6 4-4
1980 4-7 4-4
1981 8-4 6-2RB
1982 8-4 6-2
1983 9-3 7-2
1984 8-4-1 5-3-1
1985 10-2 7-1 RB
1986 9-3 5-3
1987 10-3 6-2
1988 6-1-3 4-1-3
1989 5-6 3-5
1990 8-4 6-2 RB
1991 10-1-1 7-1
1992 5-7 4-4
1993 6-6 3-5
1994 5-5-1 3-4-1
1995 8-4 4-4
1996 9-3 6-2
1997 7-5 4-4
1998 3-8 2-6


1999 KF took over. I am as big a HF supporter as there is but that's the reality that is IA FB, 5 times under HF Iowa HAD LOSING SEASONS under KF he has had 4, 1999. 2000, 2006 and 2012, HF did not have a undefeated BT season KF has 1 in 2002

HF did not have all these top 25 finishes nor did he have top rated recruiting classes like KF he got the top rated kids on a scattered basis,

HF was also quoted as saying his Starers could compete with ANYBODY in the country, but he lacked the developed depth to compete on a sustained basis,

 

[David1979]

Yeah, the Hayden Fry staring competition team had some of the best starers but they just didn't have the depth to compete with top notch starers on other teams around the country.

This post was edited on 1/23 10:55 AM by David1979

 

[GarryO37]

Originally posted by RiverCityHawk:

I believe the Big Ten is tougher and more competitive now than when HF was coaching.

I don't believe so. The only thing that may tip the scales in KF's favor as far as conference schedule goes, is the addition of Nebraska and others.

The BIG has been a weak conference over the last decade plus, with the exception this year. There was just as much parity in the 80's and 90's as there is today. When Fry was coaching, OSU and Michigan were always top programs. In the 80's Illinois and Purdue fielded good teams. Even Indiana had some good teams in the 80's. In the early 90's, Wisconsin began to rise.

In a sixteen year period from 1998-2014, OSU won outright or shared 8 conference titles. This number could have been higher if not for OSU's suspension and vacating of wins. They vacated the 2010 conference championship and were undefeated in 2012 but couldn't play for the conference championship. That number should probably be 10. I don't think anyone will argue that.

In a nineteen year period from 1979-1997, OSU won outright or shared 6 conference titles. Albeit, Michigan won or shared 9 titles, but that still proves more parity.

Seems to me that there was more parity in the Big Ten during the Hayden Fry era. Fry had to deal with OSU and Michigan being top dogs. Ferentz really only has to deal with OSU.

In researching the conferences history, I really don't see the conference being significantly more difficult one way or the other. If I had to choose one, I would say it was more difficult for Fry.

 

[ZaHawks]

Kilroy has just proven once again that KF is a very poor recruiter. That's why we have to play so many "sisters of the poor" to start each season. Otherwise we don't make it to 6-6.

 

[GarryO37]

Originally posted by Hawkeye2222:

1st of all the BT was ruled by Michigan and O$U there was a reason why the BT was referred to as the Big 2 Little 8. and here as promised are HF season by season records

1979 5-6 4-4
1980 4-7 4-4
1981 8-4 6-2RB
1982 8-4 6-2
1983 9-3 7-2
1984 8-4-1 5-3-1
1985 10-2 7-1 RB
1986 9-3 5-3
1987 10-3 6-2
1988 6-1-3 4-1-3
1989 5-6 3-5
1990 8-4 6-2 RB
1991 10-1-1 7-1
1992 5-7 4-4
1993 6-6 3-5
1994 5-5-1 3-4-1
1995 8-4 4-4
1996 9-3 6-2
1997 7-5 4-4
1998 3-8 2-6


1999 KF took over. I am as big a HF supporter as there is but that's the reality that is IA FB, 5 times under HF Iowa HAD LOSING SEASONS under KF he has had 4, 1999. 2000, 2006 and 2012, HF did not have a undefeated BT season KF has 1 in 2002

HF did not have all these top 25 finishes nor did he have top rated recruiting classes like KF he got the top rated kids on a scattered basis,

HF was also quoted as saying his Starers could compete with ANYBODY in the country, but he lacked the developed depth to compete on a sustained basis,

Really Kilroy??? I have already pointed this out to you before, so I'll do it again.

HF teams finished in the AP top 25 10 times!
KF teams? 5 times!!!

Are you serious with this?!?!?

 

[Hawkeye2222]

how many times in the last 8 years he was here and HF did that in a very weak BT, VS the BT that KF is facing,

Wisconsin was no where near what they are today, even NW was far worse back then than they are now, I just loved what Hayden did for Iowa but he did it against a very very weak BT also PSU was not even a part of the BT back then, and Idoubt that HF ever went 4-1 vs Michigan, I am not going to get in a pissing match about this, 2 different time frams and to totally different BT's that both coaches had to compete against..

 

[eddie4star]

Originally posted by GarryO37:

Originally posted by RiverCityHawk:

I believe the Big Ten is tougher and more competitive now than when HF was coaching.

I don't believe so. The only thing that may tip the scales in KF's favor as far as conference schedule goes, is the addition of Nebraska and others.

The BIG has been a weak conference over the last decade plus, with the exception this year. There was just as much parity in the 80's and 90's as there is today. When Fry was coaching, OSU and Michigan were always top programs. In the 80's Illinois and Purdue fielded good teams. Even Indiana had some good teams in the 80's. In the early 90's, Wisconsin began to rise.

In a sixteen year period from 1998-2014, OSU won outright or shared 8 conference titles. This number could have been higher if not for OSU's suspension and vacating of wins. They vacated the 2010 conference championship and were undefeated in 2012 but couldn't play for the conference championship. That number should probably be 10. I don't think anyone will argue that.

In a nineteen year period from 1979-1997, OSU won outright or shared 6 conference titles. Albeit, Michigan won or shared 9 titles, but that still proves more parity.

Seems to me that there was more parity in the Big Ten during the Hayden Fry era. Fry had to deal with OSU and Michigan being top dogs. Ferentz really only has to deal with OSU.

In researching the conferences history, I really don't see the conference being significantly more difficult one way or the other. If I had to choose one, I would say it was more difficult for Fry.

Plus a pretty tough pedophile state college joined the conference early 90's

 

[eddie4star]

Originally posted by Hawkeye2222:

how many times in the last 8 years he was here and HF did that in a very weak BT, VS the BT that KF is facing,

Wisconsin was no where near what they are today, even NW was far worse back then than they are now, I just loved what Hayden did for Iowa but he did it against a very very weak BT also PSU was not even a part of the BT back then, and Idoubt that HF ever went 4-1 vs Michigan, I am not going to get in a pissing match about this, 2 different time frams and to totally different BT's that both coaches had to compete against..

Iowa had the easiest schedule in the country last year and Michigan has been terrible for about a decade. Hayden didn't get teams ranked in the top 25 because of a weak schedule tard.

 

[GarryO37]

Originally posted by Hawkeye2222:

how many times in the last 8 years he was here and HF did that in a very weak BT, VS the BT that KF is facing,

Wisconsin was no where near what they are today, even NW was far worse back then than they are now, I just loved what Hayden did for Iowa but he did it against a very very weak BT also PSU was not even a part of the BT back then, and Idoubt that HF ever went 4-1 vs Michigan, I am not going to get in a pissing match about this, 2 different time frams and to totally different BT's that both coaches had to compete against..

You'd be right about NW except that at the end of HF's tenure NW was winning the Big Ten championship.

I can prove to you all day every day that Hayden was superior to Kirk. Every time you are faced with real facts, you just ignore them. Just like the top 25 finishes!

How about recruiting??? Here's a list of some high school All-Americans Hayden recruited to Iowa that I could gather fairly quickly...


John Alt - 1979 HSAA


Larry Station - 1981 HSAA


Dan Wirth - 1983 HSAA


Richard Pryor - 1983 HSAA


Sean Ridley - 1984 HSAA


Tony Stewart - 1985 HSAA


Melvin Foster - 1985 HSAA


Matt Rogers - 1986 HSAA


Mike Wells - 1988 HSAA


Willie Guy - 1989 HSAA


Vernon Rollins - 1993 HSAA


Eric Thigpen - 1993 HSAA


Ladell Betts - 1996 HSAA


Aaron Kampman - 1997 HSAA

These guys were huge recruits for Iowa. This doesn't even include guys like Tim Dwight, Tavian Banks, Damien Robinson and Plez Atkins guys like this who were recruited by big time programs that came to Iowa! These guys were huge recruits too!

What will you say next Kilroy? What?

 

[iahawkeyes17]

Originally posted by GarryO37:

Originally posted by Hawkeye2222:

1st of all the BT was ruled by Michigan and O$U there was a reason why the BT was referred to as the Big 2 Little 8. and here as promised are HF season by season records

1979 5-6 4-4
1980 4-7 4-4
1981 8-4 6-2RB
1982 8-4 6-2
1983 9-3 7-2
1984 8-4-1 5-3-1
1985 10-2 7-1 RB
1986 9-3 5-3
1987 10-3 6-2
1988 6-1-3 4-1-3
1989 5-6 3-5
1990 8-4 6-2 RB
1991 10-1-1 7-1
1992 5-7 4-4
1993 6-6 3-5
1994 5-5-1 3-4-1
1995 8-4 4-4
1996 9-3 6-2
1997 7-5 4-4
1998 3-8 2-6


1999 KF took over. I am as big a HF supporter as there is but that's the reality that is IA FB, 5 times under HF Iowa HAD LOSING SEASONS under KF he has had 4, 1999. 2000, 2006 and 2012, HF did not have a undefeated BT season KF has 1 in 2002

HF did not have all these top 25 finishes nor did he have top rated recruiting classes like KF he got the top rated kids on a scattered basis,

HF was also quoted as saying his Starers could compete with ANYBODY in the country, but he lacked the developed depth to compete on a sustained basis,

Really Kilroy??? I have already pointed this out to you before, so I'll do it again.

HF teams finished in the AP top 25 10 times!
KF teams? 5 times!!!

Are you serious with this?!?!?

Tough for Hayden to have top rated classes when they didn't even freaking rate them when Hayden was here. Plus KF would have to finished ranked his next 4 years and still be short a year what Hayden did in his 20 years. On top of that HF didn't have the luxury of playing 4 non conf games for majority of his time at Iowa compared to 4 games we have now. 2 of those years when he was 5-6 give him a UNI or Missouri St for his 12th game and he gets to be 6-6 And Hayden played tougher non conf games including PSU before they were in the Big 10. I think it was 92' Iowa's non conf was ISU, Miami, NC State and Colorado.

 

[GarryO37]

Originally posted by FlickShagwell:

Originally posted by GarryO37:

Ferentz really only has to deal with OSU.

I wouldn't exactly say Kirk "deals" with OSU. He's 1-8 against the Buckeyes, after all.

Good point.