No autopsy, long wait before 911 was called, no thorough check for signs of foul play...this thing stinks to high heaven folks.
Many law enforcement people now suspicious about Scalia death
- Thread starter Jakeleg Jake
- Start date
His own family declined the autopsy. Unless you think his own family took him out it doesn't sound like they think it was foul play either.
If by many law enforcement people, you meant a few, then your title would have been correct.
LMAO...Yep.
Because 80 year old males who are morbidly obese with histories of heart problems and high blood pressure NEVER die in their sleep.....
Scalia very likely had sleep apnea issues (fits the profile quite well), which is a typical cause for a heart attack when asleep.
You mean he wasn't visiting Cheney for some quail hunting?LMAO...Yep.
Because 80 year old males who are morbidly obese with histories of heart problems and high blood pressure NEVER die in their sleep.....
Scalia very likely had sleep apnea issues (fits the profile quite well), which is a typical cause for a heart attack when asleep.
I'm assuming there was a large amount of life insurance, if you get my drift.
Can someone explain why the pillow was over his face? How would it have wound up there? Is that normal with heart attacks?
The ranch owner, John Poindexter, tried to clarify his comments, telling "CBS This Morning" that Scalia "had a pillow over his head, not over his face as some have been saying. The pillow was against the headboard."
If I'm not feeling well I will sleep with a pillow over my head all the time. Sometimes I will sleep like that even when feeling ok.
To me it makes more sense that there was a pillow over his head then to not have one. A murderer would have been more likely to rid himself of it to conceal the evidence of his crime.
Also if that's really how he was murdered I think stuff would have broke. It takes time and a lot of force to sufficate someone like that. He would have struggled, kicked etc. If I'm struggling with someone like that in my bed, stuff on my lap table is going to get broke.
And I would say if we where to assume this was foul play the only reasonable suspects would be his family.
I was listening to a radio show here in Columbia, Mo, and they had some people on that stated the family's wishes to not have an autopsy should have been irrelevant due to Texas law. The people on the show stated that since Scalia was a "high profile" member of society, that an autopsy should have automatically been conducted, no matter what the family wanted. Is that true about Texas law?
I don't believe he met with foul play.
Seems pretty routine to me. I've been a volunteer firefighter and EMT for a few years, and we often get DOA calls. Maybe the sheriff will show up, but if there are obvious signs of death, we call the hospital, give as much info to whatever doctor the nurse can find and they give a declaration of death. Sheriff hangs out with the body until the medical examiner arrives to check and collect the body.
If anything were suspicious it would have been noted. His age, medical history and given the fact he "wasn't feeling well" before he went to bed is the same stories we hear all the time.
I suspect those who want a conspiracy will find one regardless of the facts.
Translation = Jane Kelly's handlers got to him and told him to change his story about the pillow
I SEE WHY OIT LOVES THIS SO MUCH!!!
Never mind that. Just trust that there are "many."
I looked at the law in Texas and they are very similar to Iowa. There is no need to perform an autopsy if the manner of death is consistent with natural causes and there is an attending physician willing to certify a cause of death. There is nothing in Texas law about "high profile" deceased persons. I have attached a link to the Texas law. FWIW, I've been a death scene investigator in the state of Iowa for nearly 20 years. I don't believe I've ever signed for an autopsy for an 80 year old man that died in his sleep. As to the pillow, very rarely will a person truly "die in their sleep". In many cases, they pull the blankets and pillows back and frequently start to get out of bed. That's probably what happened here. I've seen probably 100 dead folks very similar to Scalia. Not a bad way to go.
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/CR/htm/CR.49.htm
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/CR/htm/CR.49.htm
Or found with a pillow over their head (as reported by the caller) - that is suspicion enough to call for an autopsy.LMAO...Yep.
Because 80 year old males who are morbidly obese with histories of heart problems and high blood pressure NEVER die in their sleep.....
Scalia very likely had sleep apnea issues (fits the profile quite well), which is a typical cause for a heart attack when asleep.
No, it's not. If someone is suffocated with a pillow, there are very telling signs readily identified on a corpse. It takes about 10 seconds to rule something like that out.
Isn't that usually who it is? Its always the people you know that do you wrong.
True - but wouldn't it lead to suspicion for such a high ranking government official to be found dead with a pillow over your face? THere's more than one way to skin a cat...
Well if HRC is found dead tomorrow there will be no need for an autopsy because she looks like death too!
Seems unlikely in this case.
I woudln't object to an autopsy if law enforcement believed that where necessary. But I just think the most likely explanation is that he died of natural causes.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA......yeah, that's a real funny one, it would be even funnier if I hadn't heard about 5 seconds after he died....and 1000 times since. I don't get the noticeable glee with some people in his death. Disagree with his court decisions all you want, but for so many people to be having fun with this is a bit sad. Look, I didn't know the guy, do his court decisions tend to lean toward my way of thinking....sure. But I have no idea what kind of actual person he was. I have read a couple articles quoting Ginsberg and how much she truly liked him and enjoyed his company....and you can't get two more diametrically opposed legal thinkers than those two.....if she could find (apparently) several things in common with him, why do have to do this to? Sounds like the biggest liberal on the court thought he was a really good guy.....and she would know. But keep up with the side-splitting jokes...it advances the topic for sure.
Where the hell do you think you are? This is HROT!! There is glee when ANYBODY dies if a joke can be had.
Mulder's buddy, the cigarette-smoking man, strikes again. Did the cops find any "Morley" brand cig butts laying around the immediate area?
I do not find it odd that a 79 year old man died in his sleep. I find it odd that there is a lot leaking out about Scalia taking this trip to an exclusive resort as a gift. Supreme Court justices shouldn't take these kinds of gifts.
Oh, I get it.....was just hoping if people resort to it....at least make it original!
Justice Antonin Scalia’s sudden death over the weekend at a West Texas ranch raised questions about the nature of his travel, who paid for the trip and whether justices are subject to the same disclosure guidelines as other judges or federal officials.
Where did Justice Scalia die?
Scalia was at the Cibolo Creek Ranch, a resort tucked away in the Big Bend region of Texas about 30 miles from the border with Mexico.
ADVERTISING
The ranch is 30,000-acre getaway that is home to John B. Poindexter, according to the website of J.B. Poindexter & Co. It is a remote location that has reportedly attracted the likes of Mick Jagger, Jerry Hall and Bruce Willis. When Tommy Lee Jones directed a movie more than a decade ago, he filmed several scenes at the ranch, according to the Houston Chronicle.
Texas judge: Scalia died of natural causes
Play Video1:23
The top elected official in the Texas county where Antonin Scalia was found dead says the U.S. Supreme Court Justice died of natural causes. (AP)
Who paid for his trip?
All of which raises the question: Who pays for a Supreme Court justice to make this kind of trip?
Not Scalia, it turns out. Poindexter told The Washington Post that Scalia was not charged for his stay, something he described as a policy for all guests at the ranch.
“I did not pay for the Justice’s trip to Cibolo Creek Ranch,” Poindexter wrote in a brief email Tuesday. “He was an invited guest, along with a friend, just like 35 others.”
Poindexter added: “The Justice was treated no differently by me, as no one was charged for activities, room and board, beverages, etc. That is a 22-year policy.’’
[Justice Scalia will lie in repose at the Supreme Court, funeral set for Saturday]
However, Poindexter said he did not pay for Scalia’s charter flight to Texas.
A person familiar with the ranch’s operations said Poindexter hosts such events two or three times a year.
Poindexter, who would not identify Scalia’s friend, is a Texas native and decorated Vietnam veteran who owns Houston-based J.B. Poindexter & Co., a manufacturing firm.
The company has seven subsidiaries, with combined annual revenue of nearly $1 billion, according to information on its website. Among the items it manufacturers are delivery vans for UPS and FedEx and machine components for limousines and hearses. The company has 5,000 employees, the site said.
One of Poindexter’s companies was involved in a case that made it to the high court. Last year, the Supreme Court declined to hear a case involving an age discrimination lawsuit filed against one of these companies, court records show.
The nature of Poindexter’s relationship with Scalia remained unclear Tuesday, one of several lingering questions about his visit. It was not known whether Scalia had paid for his own ticket to fly to the ranch or if someone else picked up the tab, just as it was not immediately clear if Scalia had visited before.
[Conspiracy theories swirl around the death of Antonin Scalia]
It is also still not known who else was at the Texas ranch for the weekend, and unless that is revealed, there could be concerns about who could have tried to raise an issue around Scalia, said Stephen Gillers, who teaches legal and judicial ethics at the New York University School of Law. He compared it to unease that arises when judges and officials from major companies are invited to seminars or educational events that bring them together for periods of time.
“People worry at those kinds of things; there’s a creation of access on the part of people with an interest in the courts, and that is unfair,” Gillers said Tuesday.
Remembering Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia
Play Video2:37
Antonin Scalia died on Saturday, Feb. 13. Here's a look back on his tenure, his judicial philosophy and the legacy he leaves behind. (Monica Akhtar,Natalie Jennings/The Washington Post)
How do justices disclose their gifts and investments?
Much the same way other federal judges do: by filing reports outlining their outside income, gifts and times they are reimbursed for things.
The 1978 Ethics in Government Act, passed in the wake of the Watergate scandal, states that all federal judges — up to and including the chief justice and the associate justices — are required to report certain gifts. It also requires them to identify and describe when someone who is not a relative gives them “transportation, lodging, food, or entertainment” worth a certain amount.
A review of Scalia’s recent financial disclosure reports posted online by OpenSecrets.org shows that, like his colleagues, he regularly filed for unspecified reimbursements from universities, legal societies and other organizations after making trips for lectures and speeches. Scalia was among the court’s most active travelers. However, these disclosure forms offer scant details about who else attends events with the justices.
Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. devoted part of his 2011 report on the state of the federal judiciary to the topic of these disclosures. He also made sure to note that it was not entirely clear, in the court’s eyes, whether Congress could even extend such requirements to the justices.
“The Court has never addressed whether Congress may impose those requirements on the Supreme Court,” he wrote. “The Justices nevertheless comply with those provisions.”
Are there other ethical questions regarding justices?
The biggest ethical questions involve when justices should recuse themselves from cases, says Gillers.
“Is [the justice] the final arbiter of whether or not he has to recuse himself? And the answer is yes,” he said. “Every other federal judge below the Supreme Court, every other federal judge’s decision about whether or not he should be recused is potentially subject to the review of a higher judge or other judges on his court. But no one reviews the decision of a justice.”
He pointed to perhaps the most famous case involving a justice and recusal, which involved Scalia himself. Scalia joined then-Vice President Richard B. Cheney on a hunting trip while Cheney was the subject of a lawsuit over his energy task force, and in response to calls that he sit out the case, Scalia issued a highly unusual 21-page argument explaining why he refused to do so.
There are also calls for recusal stemming from things justices did before they joined the bench. Justice Elena Kagan, who served as the Obama administration’s solicitor general before her appointment, dismissed suggestions to recuse herself from decisions on health-care reform. Kagan had said that while in the administration she was not involved in preparations for legal challenges the act would face.
[Obama rejects GOP calls to let his successor choose the next justice]
For his part, Roberts has defended the court’s policy allowing justices to decide for themselves if they should step away from certain cases, defending the court’s members as capable of making this decision themselves.
In his 2011 report, Roberts noted that while lower courts can substitute for one another, there is only one U.S. Supreme Court, “and if a Justice withdraws from a case, the Court must sit without its full membership.” The justices have “an obligation to the Court” before making the decision on recusal, he wrote.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ustices-to-visit-remote-resorts/?tid=pm_pop_b
Where did Justice Scalia die?
Scalia was at the Cibolo Creek Ranch, a resort tucked away in the Big Bend region of Texas about 30 miles from the border with Mexico.
ADVERTISING
The ranch is 30,000-acre getaway that is home to John B. Poindexter, according to the website of J.B. Poindexter & Co. It is a remote location that has reportedly attracted the likes of Mick Jagger, Jerry Hall and Bruce Willis. When Tommy Lee Jones directed a movie more than a decade ago, he filmed several scenes at the ranch, according to the Houston Chronicle.
Texas judge: Scalia died of natural causes
Play Video1:23
The top elected official in the Texas county where Antonin Scalia was found dead says the U.S. Supreme Court Justice died of natural causes. (AP)
Who paid for his trip?
All of which raises the question: Who pays for a Supreme Court justice to make this kind of trip?
Not Scalia, it turns out. Poindexter told The Washington Post that Scalia was not charged for his stay, something he described as a policy for all guests at the ranch.
“I did not pay for the Justice’s trip to Cibolo Creek Ranch,” Poindexter wrote in a brief email Tuesday. “He was an invited guest, along with a friend, just like 35 others.”
Poindexter added: “The Justice was treated no differently by me, as no one was charged for activities, room and board, beverages, etc. That is a 22-year policy.’’
[Justice Scalia will lie in repose at the Supreme Court, funeral set for Saturday]
However, Poindexter said he did not pay for Scalia’s charter flight to Texas.
A person familiar with the ranch’s operations said Poindexter hosts such events two or three times a year.
Poindexter, who would not identify Scalia’s friend, is a Texas native and decorated Vietnam veteran who owns Houston-based J.B. Poindexter & Co., a manufacturing firm.
The company has seven subsidiaries, with combined annual revenue of nearly $1 billion, according to information on its website. Among the items it manufacturers are delivery vans for UPS and FedEx and machine components for limousines and hearses. The company has 5,000 employees, the site said.
One of Poindexter’s companies was involved in a case that made it to the high court. Last year, the Supreme Court declined to hear a case involving an age discrimination lawsuit filed against one of these companies, court records show.
The nature of Poindexter’s relationship with Scalia remained unclear Tuesday, one of several lingering questions about his visit. It was not known whether Scalia had paid for his own ticket to fly to the ranch or if someone else picked up the tab, just as it was not immediately clear if Scalia had visited before.
[Conspiracy theories swirl around the death of Antonin Scalia]
It is also still not known who else was at the Texas ranch for the weekend, and unless that is revealed, there could be concerns about who could have tried to raise an issue around Scalia, said Stephen Gillers, who teaches legal and judicial ethics at the New York University School of Law. He compared it to unease that arises when judges and officials from major companies are invited to seminars or educational events that bring them together for periods of time.
“People worry at those kinds of things; there’s a creation of access on the part of people with an interest in the courts, and that is unfair,” Gillers said Tuesday.
Remembering Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia
Play Video2:37
Antonin Scalia died on Saturday, Feb. 13. Here's a look back on his tenure, his judicial philosophy and the legacy he leaves behind. (Monica Akhtar,Natalie Jennings/The Washington Post)
How do justices disclose their gifts and investments?
Much the same way other federal judges do: by filing reports outlining their outside income, gifts and times they are reimbursed for things.
The 1978 Ethics in Government Act, passed in the wake of the Watergate scandal, states that all federal judges — up to and including the chief justice and the associate justices — are required to report certain gifts. It also requires them to identify and describe when someone who is not a relative gives them “transportation, lodging, food, or entertainment” worth a certain amount.
A review of Scalia’s recent financial disclosure reports posted online by OpenSecrets.org shows that, like his colleagues, he regularly filed for unspecified reimbursements from universities, legal societies and other organizations after making trips for lectures and speeches. Scalia was among the court’s most active travelers. However, these disclosure forms offer scant details about who else attends events with the justices.
Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. devoted part of his 2011 report on the state of the federal judiciary to the topic of these disclosures. He also made sure to note that it was not entirely clear, in the court’s eyes, whether Congress could even extend such requirements to the justices.
“The Court has never addressed whether Congress may impose those requirements on the Supreme Court,” he wrote. “The Justices nevertheless comply with those provisions.”
Are there other ethical questions regarding justices?
The biggest ethical questions involve when justices should recuse themselves from cases, says Gillers.
“Is [the justice] the final arbiter of whether or not he has to recuse himself? And the answer is yes,” he said. “Every other federal judge below the Supreme Court, every other federal judge’s decision about whether or not he should be recused is potentially subject to the review of a higher judge or other judges on his court. But no one reviews the decision of a justice.”
He pointed to perhaps the most famous case involving a justice and recusal, which involved Scalia himself. Scalia joined then-Vice President Richard B. Cheney on a hunting trip while Cheney was the subject of a lawsuit over his energy task force, and in response to calls that he sit out the case, Scalia issued a highly unusual 21-page argument explaining why he refused to do so.
There are also calls for recusal stemming from things justices did before they joined the bench. Justice Elena Kagan, who served as the Obama administration’s solicitor general before her appointment, dismissed suggestions to recuse herself from decisions on health-care reform. Kagan had said that while in the administration she was not involved in preparations for legal challenges the act would face.
[Obama rejects GOP calls to let his successor choose the next justice]
For his part, Roberts has defended the court’s policy allowing justices to decide for themselves if they should step away from certain cases, defending the court’s members as capable of making this decision themselves.
In his 2011 report, Roberts noted that while lower courts can substitute for one another, there is only one U.S. Supreme Court, “and if a Justice withdraws from a case, the Court must sit without its full membership.” The justices have “an obligation to the Court” before making the decision on recusal, he wrote.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ustices-to-visit-remote-resorts/?tid=pm_pop_b
What a coincidence, many conservatives with an Internet connection feel the same way. I wonder if there is any overlap in demographics?
Gotta love conspiracy theorists! They provide an entertaining distraction for the normal folk.
It wasn't. It was on his head,,,between the headboard and his head. It was NOT "covering his face" according to witnesses.
I laugh at the conspiracy theorists, but if foul play was really suspected I can think of roughly 100 million suspects.
But then again, the Gr8 State of Texas does have a stellar reputation for investigating the deaths of high profile people.
The man was "politically liquidated"...pure and simple. Obama didn't order it because he is very low in importance...he is nothing more than a stooge himself who could also be liquidated at a moment's notice... some powerful people ordered this hit on Scalia...and to believe otherwise is to be a fool.
Supreme Court justices bolstered by free travel, royalties, rental income
All justices received free trips, with six traveling overseas
By Reity O'Brien
Rachel Baye4:25 pm, July 2, 2015 Updated: 6:51 pm, July 2, 2015
Justice Antonin Scalia delivers a keynote address at the Library of Congress in 2014. He earned more than $33,000 from his own book sales that year.
Click here for more stories in this investigation
Before inspiring celebration, debateand dictionary searches last week, the majority of the U.S. Supreme Court managed to squeeze in some globetrotting — on someone else’s dime.
Six of the court’s nine members received paid trips to Europe in 2014, including to Berlin, London and Zurich, as reported on the justices’ annual financial disclosure reports released Thursday. The excursions are just some of the many perks that come with having the final word on the nation’s laws.
http://www.publicintegrity.org/2015...bolstered-free-travel-royalties-rental-income
Someone from the NSA probably showed up to inform them all of his peccadilloes would be laid bare to America.
I didn't see any mention of this in your article:
TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 16, 2016
Okay conspiracy theorists, work these emerging facts into your theories.
John Poindexter, who owns the Cibolo Creek Ranch where Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia was staying at the time of his death, is not some small time ranch owner or just an ordinary wealthy industrialist.
The Houston Business Journal reported in 2010 (My bold.), "he was once captain of the Vietnam War combat unit, Alpha Troop, 11th Armored Calvary Regiment.... He worked for many years and lobbied three presidents to direct attention to the heroism of his combat unit in a fight not recorded during the Vietnam War... President Barack Obama honored Poindexter and the troop with the Presidential Unit Citation, the nation’s highest award for unit valor, in a White House ceremony last October.
"Poindexter also received the C. Walter Nichols Award from the New York University Stern School of Business, an honor conferred annually on a leader who exemplifies the qualities of integrity, enterprise and service. Previous recipients have included David Rockefeller, Paul Volcker, Alan Greenspan and Jack Welch."
The Texas Monthly reported in 2006, "He graduated with honors from the University of Arkansas in two years and eight months. He ran through New York University’s MBA program in a whirlwind nine months, then earned a Ph.D. in economics and finance from NYU while working as an investment banker on Wall Street."
Most interesting, as Texas Monthly noted, he is not sloppy:
He cannot enter a room without straightening nearly every picture on the wall, nor walk by a table without smoothing the linen, nor pass a rug without tugging a corner to flatten a wrinkle. He’ll open glass cabinets displaying thousands of arrowheads to reposition three. At one point, he got on his knees to redirect lights on the cabinets’ bottom shelves.
Yet when it came to the death of a Supreme Court Justice, he got mighty sloppy. As DC Whispers pointed out:
It was Poindexter who reportedly was among those who initially discovered the justice’s body, and who then coordinated with local officials to have Justice Scalia declared dead via a phone conversation with the area medical examiner, but without an actual medical examination of the body.Yup, you got it. Detail man who knows the higher echelons of power and he calls a justice of the peace who declares a Supreme Court justice dead of natural causes over the phone.
-RW
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2016/02/owner-of-ranch-where-scalia-died-was.html
